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Highwayman (men?) Hills: Giant Pile Of Gushing Praise #3
Azherae
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
First gonna preface by reminding once again that I'm an Abstractor, so my feelings toward graphics and style could be absolute trash as feedback.
It was so good. The zone, the placement, the feeling, the rhino.
It was all so good that I just want Alpha-2 to come even sooner and I don't even like this sort of biome normally. That's how good it is. I don't like this type of forest. I don't like this type of warm lively zone. I don't like large 'enemy strongholds' or wide roads leading to them.
And yet somehow despite all of that, not only did it not break my immersion, I was immediately so connected to it, that I couldn't reframe it. I don't know how to explain that well, but in every other case I'm normally able to 'make sure I think of it as just a game' by choice, and I consider the pinnacle of area design to be the moment where I can no longer do that, even if only for a few moments at a time.
And I think you guys (designers) may know what I mean when I say that it isn't because it is 'pretty', it's because it is 'right'. MineCraft is not 'pretty', but it can very much (with the right mods or lucky seed generation) be right. I want that 'take screenshot and use as painting' function all the more now. Also the cape!
Not a lot of games can do this, BDO can but they use a lot of manipulation methods and then as soon as you get off the beaten path, the area design inverts on itself and all the sightlines suddenly feel ten times worse for all the effort they put in to make that specific 'perfect spot' look good. FFXIV is similar, to the point where it makes me laugh sometimes. Not even gonna talk about Neverwinter or FFXI, they're too constrained to bother discussing.
But 'the three characters standing around showcasing skills' was too 'real'. My abstraction kicked in hard, and they 'became' Stephen, Tradd, and Bucky on the screen for a bit, not 'explaining what their characters are doing', but 'explaining what they are doing' and not even the 'GM commands being entered' seemed to pull me out of that.
Then they got into the 'keep'. And everything went even harder. Everything from the positioning of the Minotaurs (though static) to the specific shadowing of things. I want to see this place at night now. I don't even know if the one thing that did jar me, the Zombies, was only because it was Daytime (FFXI undead don't spawn in the day, Onigiri ones don't spawn in the overworld in the day either, MineCraft, it's a whole mechanic, etc).
Even more reason to want to see it at night, since the Zombies in the last Cleric stream felt totally normal in open spaces.
The way of managing to make me somehow 'know' that I'm not only by a hill but also on one, without actually using any obvious elevation other than what is around me, I would have to rewatch and study to figure out how the design team even did that. I know some principles of how it's done, but it was just too incredibly subtle this time, so with just one watchthrough, I can't immediately pick out how they did it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't just the area's name priming me.
The sheer density of positive stimuli from that showcase from the environment alone, I'm not even going to be able to get into one post, so I'll end this one as the 'immediate reflexive outpouring of praise' and add to this thread later after a rewatch when I'm sure I'll have noticed the other hundred little things that were subconsciously supporting this reaction.
I'm not the type to be left without words, I'm the type to be left with too many, so here's some.
It was so good. The zone, the placement, the feeling, the rhino.
It was all so good that I just want Alpha-2 to come even sooner and I don't even like this sort of biome normally. That's how good it is. I don't like this type of forest. I don't like this type of warm lively zone. I don't like large 'enemy strongholds' or wide roads leading to them.
And yet somehow despite all of that, not only did it not break my immersion, I was immediately so connected to it, that I couldn't reframe it. I don't know how to explain that well, but in every other case I'm normally able to 'make sure I think of it as just a game' by choice, and I consider the pinnacle of area design to be the moment where I can no longer do that, even if only for a few moments at a time.
And I think you guys (designers) may know what I mean when I say that it isn't because it is 'pretty', it's because it is 'right'. MineCraft is not 'pretty', but it can very much (with the right mods or lucky seed generation) be right. I want that 'take screenshot and use as painting' function all the more now. Also the cape!
For those who don't know what I mean by abstractor or all that bit, I'm the sort of person who will not get their immersion broken by a cape clipping. I know abstractly that the cape is not supposed to clip, so in my mind it 'doesn't clip'. The abstract beauty of the cape exists separately from any specific clipping animation unless it's flying all over the place
Not a lot of games can do this, BDO can but they use a lot of manipulation methods and then as soon as you get off the beaten path, the area design inverts on itself and all the sightlines suddenly feel ten times worse for all the effort they put in to make that specific 'perfect spot' look good. FFXIV is similar, to the point where it makes me laugh sometimes. Not even gonna talk about Neverwinter or FFXI, they're too constrained to bother discussing.
But 'the three characters standing around showcasing skills' was too 'real'. My abstraction kicked in hard, and they 'became' Stephen, Tradd, and Bucky on the screen for a bit, not 'explaining what their characters are doing', but 'explaining what they are doing' and not even the 'GM commands being entered' seemed to pull me out of that.
Then they got into the 'keep'. And everything went even harder. Everything from the positioning of the Minotaurs (though static) to the specific shadowing of things. I want to see this place at night now. I don't even know if the one thing that did jar me, the Zombies, was only because it was Daytime (FFXI undead don't spawn in the day, Onigiri ones don't spawn in the overworld in the day either, MineCraft, it's a whole mechanic, etc).
Even more reason to want to see it at night, since the Zombies in the last Cleric stream felt totally normal in open spaces.
The way of managing to make me somehow 'know' that I'm not only by a hill but also on one, without actually using any obvious elevation other than what is around me, I would have to rewatch and study to figure out how the design team even did that. I know some principles of how it's done, but it was just too incredibly subtle this time, so with just one watchthrough, I can't immediately pick out how they did it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't just the area's name priming me.
The sheer density of positive stimuli from that showcase from the environment alone, I'm not even going to be able to get into one post, so I'll end this one as the 'immediate reflexive outpouring of praise' and add to this thread later after a rewatch when I'm sure I'll have noticed the other hundred little things that were subconsciously supporting this reaction.
I'm not the type to be left without words, I'm the type to be left with too many, so here's some.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
11
Comments
i loved the trees in today's stream
Actually since this is a thread that there's a chance the devs might read or get some data from, I should clarify about that.
Our disappointments come in messaging and the chance that Steven explicitly 'doesn't want a certain type of person we like to have in games, to actually bother playing'.
But our feedback (I guess 'my' feedback for a bit) is always supposed to be taken from the perspective of 'hey wait is this as 'bad' as those people are going to take it to be?' And the answer is usually either 'no' or 'we'll see but for now don't think about it so rigidly'.
I have told certain members of my group, multiple times, that the forum itself is 'poison' in that way. It's too easy to align with a certain subset of people who repeat the potential 'bad outcomes' that Intrepid MIGHT mean as if they are the absolute intentions and we should expect way more.
But Steven is not directly the source of this, and certainly not 'development in general'. Any other stuff is style preferences and speculation, or in some cases a weird byproduct of a specific aspect of my arrogance which then gets tangled up in the same forum thing.
One can only go through so much of the 'You don't know what you're doing either, it's supposed to be this way!' on subjects we know aren't that far along yet before it starts to feel like the whole game is just gonna be a big appeal to that type of player/person.
I remain by virtue of having the highest pure tolerance for it.
So please, Intrepid devs and designers, keep doing your thing, keep going this hard. Keep pushing because you know you can do it. I know you can do it. The only issue is that sometimes we end up wondering if you/Steven 'want' to do it. And that isn't fair to you.
But all I could really do was warn.
ARTISANAL AND ORGANIC
Animation and music very technological but at the same time, "organic and artisanal".
It is remarkable when developers want to create an open world that feels alive, organic and artistic/artisanal.
I thought all this freehold fighting was new, I didn’t know this forum has been fighting since last year
Whew, that was a good rewatch...
Seeing the stream, and ashes of creation aesthetics in general, leaves me some hope that perhaps it will help many video game addicts start appreciating real life nature a little more and stop living in their computer isolation bubbles which causes harm long term health wise.
I hope this tremendous beauty of AOC world reminds us that if we feel impressed by this it's because Rea life and the universe is actually a a very impressive design by nature or God, according to your life philosophy, its s just that we get crushed by our struggles and our personal problems and forget to see what is out there in our planet and in the sky.
I played video games and fantasy MMOs mostly because, unknownly when I was child I was longing to reconnect with the magic of the Universe. The background music combined with beautiful environments sometimes even gave me some sort of mystical inspiration moments while playing in the middle of the night many years ago in some of these fantasy worlds, and that was around 2005 so the graphics were nowhere near as beautiful as these. So I hope with this incredible realism people will feel more blessed to virtually exist in these fantasy worlds and somehow start healing their souls to reconnect with the Universe, nature or God, according to your beliefs. Of course many people only play games to min max and kill someone else and feel superior to them, but at least some percentage of people will feel touched by the amazing charm of this AOC world in a positive way and help them become more inspired human beings, even if it's just for the in-game behavior with other players.
I believe the difference between AOC world and other mmo maps is that Intrepid is trying to make it look as similar as possible to real life environments, in terms of elevations, density of creatures, density of vegetation and locations, mountains and valleys and all the geological interactions between various elements of the world. It is so incredible to see those big mountains in the previous freehold stream. I am left speechless and also left with many words, as you say, and these are just some ❤️.
Inhabited/once inhabited places often have a fair bit of “stuff” hanging around, and these things give those places character. They tell a story about who lived there, how they lived, and if abandoned - how long they’ve been gone, all without using any words. The same goes for natural places, just more diversity in the ground clutter depending on the biome.
If left too neat and tidy, the world can come off feeling a bit sterile, and can sometimes remind me I’m playing a video game. The difference between walking into a ruin and thinking “oh, there’s some mobs inside it”, and thinking “oh, this is where the bandits live”. It’s a subtle difference, but those details really sell the immersion for a lot of people.