Feedback: Shade/shadows are too dark

Milotrix

So I don't know if this will get changed later, but from in-game footage of showcases and developmental updates I have seen, whenever it is a bright day with sunshine, the parts that are shaded due to trees etc are way too dark. It looks as if there is barely any ambient light in those shaded areas.... which is not what happens in real life.

In real life, when light hits the ground, walls, trees etc, it bounces and scatters, illuminating even shaded areas, just not directly.... but the way it is now, looks as if shaded areas are almost completely dark, as if it is night time.

It feels like in places where there is sunlight, it is overexposed, while in places where it is shaded, it is underexposed.

Edit: It's not just about being realistic, it is about being ergonomic. If the in-game weather is sunny and bright, your eyes are adjusted to that brightness, then suddenly you pass under a tree and it goes dark, you will struggle to see properly.

Towards the end of the Priest showcase, where they are standing in a high building looking down below, there is a stack of stones, a corner remnant of a building that once was there and it casts a shadow, and you can barely make out anything that's within that shadow, even though you are looking straight down at it and it is a bright sunny day.

Additionally, the constant adjustment that our eyes will have to do from high brightness to deep darkness will strain the eyes. Especially for those who don't have 20/20 vision.

Edit 2: Vaknar (staff member) has responded mentioning that game is still in alpha stage so lighting will be adjusted. I can completely appreciate that the game is still in alpha, just wanted to point this out just in case, because I've played games where the lighting and things like motion blur were so bad that it gave me eye strain and headaches to the point that I couldn't play the game. So I hope AOC will take the ergonomic aspect into the game, and not just how it looks visually.

Solvryn

Milotrix wrote: »

So I don't know if this will get changed later, but from in-game footage of showcases and developmental updates I have seen, whenever it is a bright day with sunshine, the parts that are shaded due to trees etc are way too dark. It looks as if there is barely any ambient light in those shaded areas.... which is not what happens in real life.

In real life, when light hits the ground, walls, trees etc, it bounces and scatters, illuminating even shaded areas, just not directly.... but the way it is now, looks as if shaded areas are almost completely dark, as if it is night time.

The shaded areas should be more "grey" instead of a dark black, and there should be more ambient light in shaded areas.

I’m from the woods, those show cases aren’t that far off.

Milotrix

Solvryn wrote: »

I’m from the woods, those show cases aren’t that far off.

To a degree perhaps, except things in real life are still far easier to see compared to looking at things in a game through a monitor... it makes it difficult to see things clearly... which would not be as difficult to see in real life.

Also in real life you are not switching between different amounts of light as frequently as you do in a game, and switching frequently with such high variation between light and dark will straight the eyes....

ergonomically speaking, it is better to make those shaded areas lighter.

Depraved

cant agree or disagree with you here since i dont know enough about the topic, however, remember that in video games and art, things dont have to look real, they just have to look believable

Voeltz

That's something I noticed as well. It was like they were in a cave even though they were outside in those shaded areas. I'm sure there will be adjustments to lighting at some point.

Milotrix

Depraved wrote: »

cant agree or disagree with you here since i dont know enough about the topic, however, remember that in video games and art, things don't have to look real, they just have to look believable

It's not about being realistic, it is about ergonomic. If the in-game weather is sunny and bright, your eyes are adjusted to that brightness, then suddenly you pass under a tree and it goes dark, you will struggle to see properly.

The constant adjustment that our eyes will have to do from high brightness to deep darkness will strain the eyes. Especially for those who don't have 20/20 vision.

Lash

I hate the god rays way more than shade. I hope we can turn them off because they make the world look fake.

Mag7spy

Since this is alpha and a new part of the world it can be something they have not fully retouched and it just has the basic kind of lighting int he area (sky light + directional light) and just using normal values in the area and/or still playing with parts of eye adaption and have not found a value they want exactly for certain settings.

Could be quite a few things tbh.

Though i will say in the areas that are fully shaded I can agree those areas feel a bit lacking do tot he lack of light not allowing the materials to pop and feel different from one another. Though I wouldn't expect tweaks on everywhere in a world as big as they are aiming for until much later on. They will most likely get everything working and than go over.

There will be a time where they will have time to do more beauty passes and get things where they want.

Milotrix

Mag7spy wrote: »

Since this is alpha and a new part of the world it can be something they have not fully retouched and it just has the basic kind of lighting int he area (sky light + directional light) and just using normal values in the area and/or still playing with parts of eye adaption and have not found a value they want exactly for certain settings.

Could be quite a few things tbh.

Though i will say in the areas that are fully shaded I can agree those areas feel a bit lacking do tot he lack of light not allowing the materials to pop and feel different from one another. Though I wouldn't expect tweaks on everywhere in a world as big as they are aiming for until much later on. They will most likely get everything working and than go over.

There will be a time where they will have time to do more beauty passes and get things where they want.

Yea I can fully appreciate that the game is still in beta and that they are still in the process of touching things up, which is why I wanted to point it out now while they are still working on it, before it is finalized

Ezk1

Afaik its just Lumen doing its work inside engine, and to me lighting looks great. Of course you most likely can do some adjusting trough settings, but I hope not too much. I like when environment generally looks same to all players.

TheDarkSorcerer

I agree with you. That was my note as well from recent livestream. It's WAYY too dark. If you're sitting in a cave playing this game, then good for you. But it's currently way too dark. I can't see myself enjoying playing the game if it's this dark, as I couldn't see anything in the livestream when they were in a shadowy area.

A shadow should be dark from a far. But if you're standing in a shadow, that shadow should lit up some.

Boneshatter

I also agree with the OP. The buildings and ruins the crew was running through were so dark I could barely see anything. This would make sense if they were in a cave or an enclosed tower or something, but the design and condition of the ruins would have let plenty of light in.

Not only does this have the potential to give players eye strain and headaches, but it is also highly unrealistic. If you sit under a tree or awning on a sunny day it isn't pitch dark in the shade. Even in my own home I generally turn the lights off and open the blinds to let in sunlight during the day and the visibility is fine.

Vaknar

Keep in mind that everything we show is alpha stage footage and gameplay! The environments aren't complete, and haven't had touch-ups or finishing touches applied to them! This includes lighting, textures, etc!

Even still, your feedback is much appreciated!

GreatPhilisopher

i agree , whenever they went into a showed/building area in most of the latest streams the game turns so dark i couldnt see anything , i hope they fix that as it being this dark dosent make sense and isnt good unless its a place thats supposed to be that dark or makes sense that its that dark

Percimes

Noob question.

How are HDR monitor options are usually handled in live captures? Could everything look fine on a HDR screen but then too contrasty in the encodings (and streaming compression)?

Zahie

I agree that the light and shadows are either overexposed (when the lights get too bright with too much whites) or underexposed (when the shadows get too dark with too much blacks).

I dissagree that the shaded areas should be more grey. Shadows are almost never gray, it's just a darker shade of the color. Like in a forest, where most of the colors are different shades of green and brown, the shadows gets a darker shade of all the colors that's in the forest but it doesn't turn grey. Adding grey would make it look washed out. Even snow doesn't turn grey in the shadows, it's usually more blueish depending on the light.

The reason why it looks unrealistic is because the ingame camera is more comparable with how an actual irl camera works. It's not as complex as our eyes, which has a wider dynamic range and can see more contrast than a camera can. That's why we can see both bright and dark areas in the same view whithout turning those areas either overexposed or underexposed.
A camera on the other hand, will have to overexpose the bright areas in order to make the darker areas visible and vise versa.

Hopefully they will make this right before launch.

Milotrix

Zahie wrote: »

I agree that the light and shadows are either overexposed (when the lights get too bright with too much whites) or underexposed (when the shadows get too dark with too much blacks).

I dissagree that the shaded areas should be more grey. Shadows are almost never gray, it's just a darker shade of the color. Like in a forest, where most of the colors are different shades of green and brown, the shadows gets a darker shade of all the colors that's in the forest but it doesn't turn grey. Adding grey would make it look washed out. Even snow doesn't turn grey in the shadows, it's usually more blueish depending on the light.

The reason why it looks unrealistic is because the ingame camera is more comparable with how an actual irl camera works. It's not as complex as our eyes, which has a wider dynamic range and can see more contrast than a camera can. That's why we can see both bright and dark areas in the same view whithout turning those areas either overexposed or underexposed.
A camera on the other hand, will have to overexpose the bright areas in order to make the darker areas visible and vise versa.

Hopefully they will make this right before launch.

yes I completely agree that when it is light, it is overexposed, and when it is shaded, it is underexposed. Thank you for pointing that out.

Also I just meant "more grey" the sense that it shouldn't be as dark, not literally grey