Tulnar anatomy and clothing speculation

Mionikoi

Let us pretend for a moment that we are all a bunch of clothiers in a tavern.

We have come together because we have heard a rumor that a group from the mysterious race known as the Tulnar, have taken an interest in Kaelar and Vaelune clothing and fashion. This is a wonderful opportunity! Both financially and for us to test our skills!

We have a conundrum however. We know very little about the Tulnar's physiology. How will we know how to do alterations if we barely know what our customers look like? Perhaps we could make plans and patterns just in case? Paper and ink are cheap commodities in this time and age, no? Maybe not.

So why don't we all have a professional discussion about the possibilities that can come from 'what if?'
And let us do so as if families bringing their children in to eat will be sitting near by.

The tavern master has made it clear that he would rather throw us out and even bar us from coming back ever again if we get into too explicit detail, than to loose customers.

So let us have this discussion like professionals. Clothiers, academics, and maybe a few curious weirdos that take a keen interest in such topic
---
So I was suggested by some friends to post this topic on the AoC forum, and see if anyone is interested. I realize that this can walk a thin line and degrade quickly into degeneracy, but I believe it is a topic worth discussion. What would tulnar wear? What if their bodies were like this race's or that's? What alterations would be needed to conform to that? Digigrade? Plantigrade? Both like humans are? Depends?

What do you all think?

Solvryn

We would not wear Kaelar and Empyrean clothing, we would wear our clothing.

And no one knows what that is yet because the Sandal Lord has not told us anything about Tulnar.

Percimes

Well well, what kind of tailor doesn't take the measurements of their client for a perfect fit?

Tailored clothes! No "all size fit all" none sense.

Mionikoi

I like the idea of dressing my characters in different styles of armor and clothing. What if I don't want a tulnar in furs and skins, but the finest silks and linens?

Regardless of that, we don't know what Tulnar will look like in completion. Will all of them have horns and thus need holes for their hats? What about ears?

Using clothing as a basis is just a method to avoid getting into elicit areas where we can be banned. So where I am curious about how humanoid or beastial tulnar are, i am also curious about the implications. Do for instance tulnar women need support of a shift or a corset? Do they not have that problem? Do they care?

What about tails?

Kaelar and vaelume are just the two races who's clothing we should all be familiar with, or we can take a quick google search. They are not exclusively what I want to see a tulnar be able to wear.

Sevariel

Mionikoi wrote: »

What about tails?

Hoping that tails can be hidden or wrapped Saiyan style unless cloaks are split / designed not to flap and clip with them constantly. I have a tail on XIV and the only cloaks that are tolerable are split down the middle or force tails to vanish. x_x

Mionikoi

Sevariel wrote: »

Mionikoi wrote: »

What about tails?

Hoping that tails can be hidden or wrapped Saiyan style unless cloaks are split / designed not to flap and clip with them constantly. I have a tail on XIV and the only cloaks that are tolerable are split down the middle or force tails to vanish. x_x

I would love for a split tailed cloak, or for the cloak to have a tail flap designed. I would prefer a beastial race to have tails rather than to be without.

But I understand the dilemma of clipping, at least from an ESO perspective.

daveywavey

Mionikoi wrote: »

How will we know how to do alterations if we barely know what our customers look like?

We'd look at them when they come into the shop? I mean, we're all pretty darn good clothiers. I trust us to be able to make alterations on the fly.

Raven016

Mionikoi wrote: »

So why don't we all have a professional discussion about the possibilities that can come from 'what if?'
And let us do so as if families bringing their children in to eat will be sitting near by.

Teaching tulnar children to sit on human chairs will be a challenge.

But regarding clothes, if they have fur, clothes might not be needed.
If they are lizards then clothes might be helpful for them.

Boneshatter

How does one know what cannot be known?

From my understanding the Tulnar will have far more variety than any of the other races. One day you're darning the socks of a Tulnar lass the size of a Ren'Kai and the next you're adding a tail hole for one the size of a dwarf.

Does the potential wearer of an item have scales or fur? Perhaps a dermal frill? We don't even know where the "flap" will need to go. Are they offended by certain kinds of leather? Do they fear metal? How many "support points" would a Tulnar corset even need? We just don't know.

I think the only prudent thing would be to keep a variety of premade clothing items available for all the races, and when a Tulnar client approaches one would just find the closest size from what is currently available and alter it for any unexpected appendages.

Mionikoi

Boneshatter wrote: »

How does one know what cannot be known?

From my understanding the Tulnar will have far more variety than any of the other races. One day you're darning the socks of a Tulnar lass the size of a Ren'Kai and the next you're adding a tail hole for one the size of a dwarf.

Does the potential wearer of an item have scales or fur? Perhaps a dermal frill? We don't even know where the "flap" will need to go. Are they offended by certain kinds of leather? Do they fear metal? How many "support points" would a Tulnar corset even need? We just don't know.

I think the only prudent thing would be to keep a variety of premade clothing items available for all the races, and when a Tulnar client approaches one would just find the closest size from what is currently available and alter it for any unexpected appendages.

That and it probably wouldn't hurt to hire a few tulnar as models to design clothes around.

Solvryn

Raven016 wrote: »

Mionikoi wrote: »

So why don't we all have a professional discussion about the possibilities that can come from 'what if?'
And let us do so as if families bringing their children in to eat will be sitting near by.

Teaching tulnar children to sit on human chairs will be a challenge.

But regarding clothes, if they have fur, clothes might not be needed.
If they are lizards then clothes might be helpful for them.

You mean teaching humans to sit on Tulnar chairs will be a challenge.

Tulnar have to teach the rest of you magic.

Mionikoi

I think chairs would be less of an issue for tailed races. We do have chairs that lack a lower back rest and instead have a large gap between the seat and the upper back rest.

As for corsets with multiple support points, this gives me an idea that could be used to serve most races. Why not design corsets to be compatible or have built in back braces? We all know there will be many customers who work in gathering and resource production. Why not offer something both functional and practical while keeping in mind that tulnar might appreciate some extra support?

Stylish, functional, and practical. Might put us high in demand.

Raven016

The reptilian egg laying version might need nests instead of beds.
And clothes might need to maintain moisture with pockets of warm water supply. Below ground is warmer, isn't it?

Scarbeus

It's already been commented by Steven that other than costumes that were created or bought on the shop that have a 'fixed appearance' that all other items you wear will have a 'cultural appearance'. So one item will look different on both Kaelar and Vaelune and will also look different on Tulnar.

Mionikoi

Scarbeus wrote: »

It's already been commented by Steven that other than costumes that were created or bought on the shop that have a 'fixed appearance' that all other items you wear will have a 'cultural appearance'. So one item will look different on both Kaelar and Vaelune and will also look different on Tulnar.

I see. So as it stands, unless it is a costume we are probably going to see generic named items like 'iron gauntlets' that will change appearance depending on the race? This is a bit vexing, honestly. I can understand the design choice in the matter. It just seems like a missed opportunity. Save on resources maybe?

Perhaps it will be a feature that can be disabled in the future? Then again, I can also admit to being spoiled from playing games that allow for style materials and armor that can be worn by all player races. But they also likely save themselves the trouble by having character models that are similar to one another. Some do other things though.

Quite a conundrum.

HumblePuffin

Mionikoi wrote: »

Scarbeus wrote: »

It's already been commented by Steven that other than costumes that were created or bought on the shop that have a 'fixed appearance' that all other items you wear will have a 'cultural appearance'. So one item will look different on both Kaelar and Vaelune and will also look different on Tulnar.

I see. So as it stands, unless it is a costume we are probably going to see generic named items like 'iron gauntlets' that will change appearance depending on the race? This is a bit vexing, honestly. I can understand the design choice in the matter. It just seems like a missed opportunity. Save on resources maybe?

Perhaps it will be a feature that can be disabled in the future? Then again, I can also admit to being spoiled from playing games that allow for style materials and armor that can be worn by all player races. But they also likely save themselves the trouble by having character models that are similar to one another. Some do other things though.

Quite a conundrum.

Just so you can see Steven’s comments on this because I’m not 100% sure if it was clear:

Racial appearance of gear

Let's say for example you have the Eagle set or something, right: The Eagle set has in art, it has a thematic design that's going to include certain attachments to the armor. It's going to include color palette and theme. It's going to have some aspects to it that define it as the Eagle set, right. When a Elf wears the Eagle set or when an Orc wears the Eagle set, you obviously have two different cultures there; and you don't want to stomp out that culture by assigning a de facto 'This is the Eagle set and this is how it looks on everybody.' What we want to have is cultural influences play a role in showing how that set looks.[7] – Steven Sharif

Some further clarification:

When you say, what if I'm an Orc but want to look like an Elf and I want my Eagle set to be the Elf representation? Well the issue becomes there that you know Orcs have a different organic model. You know, their body is different than that of the Elf. So, from a scope-creep standpoint, it's one thing to add different influences that represent the cultures that are donning the armor; it's another thing to adapt each influence as a matrix that can be worn pretty much by everything. From a scope perspective, that's a very difficult task for the character artists to kind of tackle. So instead what we've done is, in order to facilitate a variety of cultural representation between the races but allow for the sharing of assets like different armor sets, we give different representations of those armor sets to each race.[9] – Steven Sharif

Raven016

Mionikoi wrote: »

Let us pretend for a moment that we are all a bunch of clothiers in a tavern.

I am hungry and thirsty.

Mionikoi

Raven016 wrote: »

Mionikoi wrote: »

Let us pretend for a moment that we are all a bunch of clothiers in a tavern.

I am hungry and thirsty.

Order something from the tavern master? Hope you have the coin!

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Mionikoi wrote: »

Scarbeus wrote: »

It's already been commented by Steven that other than costumes that were created or bought on the shop that have a 'fixed appearance' that all other items you wear will have a 'cultural appearance'. So one item will look different on both Kaelar and Vaelune and will also look different on Tulnar.

I see. So as it stands, unless it is a costume we are probably going to see generic named items like 'iron gauntlets' that will change appearance depending on the race? This is a bit vexing, honestly. I can understand the design choice in the matter. It just seems like a missed opportunity. Save on resources maybe?

Perhaps it will be a feature that can be disabled in the future? Then again, I can also admit to being spoiled from playing games that allow for style materials and armor that can be worn by all player races. But they also likely save themselves the trouble by having character models that are similar to one another. Some do other things though.

Quite a conundrum.

Just so you can see Steven’s comments on this because I’m not 100% sure if it was clear:

Racial appearance of gear

Let's say for example you have the Eagle set or something, right: The Eagle set has in art, it has a thematic design that's going to include certain attachments to the armor. It's going to include color palette and theme. It's going to have some aspects to it that define it as the Eagle set, right. When a Elf wears the Eagle set or when an Orc wears the Eagle set, you obviously have two different cultures there; and you don't want to stomp out that culture by assigning a de facto 'This is the Eagle set and this is how it looks on everybody.' What we want to have is cultural influences play a role in showing how that set looks.[7] – Steven Sharif

Some further clarification:

When you say, what if I'm an Orc but want to look like an Elf and I want my Eagle set to be the Elf representation? Well the issue becomes there that you know Orcs have a different organic model. You know, their body is different than that of the Elf. So, from a scope-creep standpoint, it's one thing to add different influences that represent the cultures that are donning the armor; it's another thing to adapt each influence as a matrix that can be worn pretty much by everything. From a scope perspective, that's a very difficult task for the character artists to kind of tackle. So instead what we've done is, in order to facilitate a variety of cultural representation between the races but allow for the sharing of assets like different armor sets, we give different representations of those armor sets to each race.[9] – Steven Sharif

Thank you for the head up. I hope Intrepid will eventually do a showcase for all the races before A2 launches. Maybe just showing off what they look like wearing a generic set of armor. I can dream.

Switching gears, do you think tulnar will have glowy mushroom hats available as cultural headgear, since they live underground?