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The Bard could be the other "other" support class

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Comments

  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    The question is what will be the "bard" be in Ashes of Creation? I have played several MMOs and RPGs and among these games, the "bard" was always different. The bard ranged from a buffing class to a crowd control class. Depending on the game, the bard used any manner of musical instruments to various weapons.

    We know some of the basics of what the bard will be able to do in Ashes of Creation. But, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2023
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    KingDDD wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    KingDDD wrote: »
    Your main class will always determine your role and the secondary archetype will provide a class fantasy/playstyle. Using wow as an example, mages have 3 distinct playstyles with 3 distinct sets of utility they provide. Ashes will more than likely have more customization in the utility department but if you're playing a tank you will be tanking.

    This isn't true, it defeats the whole point of the system, which is filling in a tank/healer role on the fly if you cant find one. You have it flipped, your main role is the fantasy and whatever secondary class yo are speced into defines your role.

    That makes no sense.

    If you're playing a necromancer your role (summons) is determined by your first choice. The cleric choice gives you some fantasy and utility (undead summons, other gameplay utilities) but making that cleric choice equate to healing is just bad design. Locking the desired playstyle behind an investment of 30 levels means you don't get to play what you want at low levels which is a pain point for players and causes people to not play.

    The old just want until it gets good isnt a recipe for success. It's why DND 5e let's you get rage at level 1 as a barb. If I pick barb I want rage not be a fighter until I am multiple campaigns in.


    I know this quote is older, but...

    "...
    Now we’re talking – this is the nitty gritty of group dynamics in Ashes of Creation. While we’re including traditional Tank, DPS, and Support roles our secondary class system and augments system make customizing your character of the utmost import. We want players and their builds to feel malleable in Ashes of Creation. We never want you to feel pigeonholed into a single role, but at the same time we want roles and customization choices to be meaningful. So how do we maintain flexibility in character growth while making sure roles are important?

    The traditional roles are the high concepts our classes fall into, but a better way to think of them are as tools that each class can use to help their comrades in arms. Enter Augments – this is how you’ll diversify and personalize your character outside of its primary role, or double down on it’s primary role – the choice is yours. A tank might be able to make a wall, blocking monsters into an area where only he can be hit. A damage specialist might have skills that create weaknesses in their enemy, letting everyone do more damage in turn. A support class might be able to bolster your allies with magic, hardening them against the ruthless foes that seek to strike you down..."

    -group dynamics blog post on IS website.

    They've said a variation of this quote a number of times and what they're trying to say is it allows you to customize how you do your primary role. So tanks in this game will only be Tank primary archetype. But with secondary archetypes, augments, skill point usage, ability choices, weapon and armor choices, etc. you can make at least 8 varieties of tank. There's a ton of customization available.

    So when they say "personalize your character outside of it's primary role" they mean using your options to maybe be a more DPS oriented tank (but still main tank) or something like that. Or taking the Cleric we saw they had a number of DPS abilities and some CC and utility. Maybe one Cleric wants to be really offensive and specs into their DPS abilities, and finds a DPS oriented secondary archetype to really help them strengthen that. But they still are the healer of a party - similar to the Aion Cleric when played as DPS Cleric. Neither will fill a DPS role, and vice versa - a Fighter/Tank will not fill a Tank role. They would just be a physical DPS class with perhaps more defenses, or better CC or who knows what augments a tank will offer.

    Then the quote, "double down on it's primary role" is the Tank/Tank or Cleric/Cleric "pure" classes. The idea there is strengthening your primary role and being more powerful at that one thing at the expense of the versatility the other builds might provide.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    willsummon wrote: »
    The question is what will be the "bard" be in Ashes of Creation? I have played several MMOs and RPGs and among these games, the "bard" was always different. The bard ranged from a buffing class to a crowd control class. Depending on the game, the bard used any manner of musical instruments to various weapons.

    We know some of the basics of what the bard will be able to do in Ashes of Creation. But, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

    The bard should be a joker.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Leiloni wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    KingDDD wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    KingDDD wrote: »
    Your main class will always determine your role and the secondary archetype will provide a class fantasy/playstyle. Using wow as an example, mages have 3 distinct playstyles with 3 distinct sets of utility they provide. Ashes will more than likely have more customization in the utility department but if you're playing a tank you will be tanking.

    This isn't true, it defeats the whole point of the system, which is filling in a tank/healer role on the fly if you cant find one. You have it flipped, your main role is the fantasy and whatever secondary class yo are speced into defines your role.

    That makes no sense.

    If you're playing a necromancer your role (summons) is determined by your first choice. The cleric choice gives you some fantasy and utility (undead summons, other gameplay utilities) but making that cleric choice equate to healing is just bad design. Locking the desired playstyle behind an investment of 30 levels means you don't get to play what you want at low levels which is a pain point for players and causes people to not play.

    The old just want until it gets good isnt a recipe for success. It's why DND 5e let's you get rage at level 1 as a barb. If I pick barb I want rage not be a fighter until I am multiple campaigns in.


    I know this quote is older, but...

    "...
    Now we’re talking – this is the nitty gritty of group dynamics in Ashes of Creation. While we’re including traditional Tank, DPS, and Support roles our secondary class system and augments system make customizing your character of the utmost import. We want players and their builds to feel malleable in Ashes of Creation. We never want you to feel pigeonholed into a single role, but at the same time we want roles and customization choices to be meaningful. So how do we maintain flexibility in character growth while making sure roles are important?

    The traditional roles are the high concepts our classes fall into, but a better way to think of them are as tools that each class can use to help their comrades in arms. Enter Augments – this is how you’ll diversify and personalize your character outside of its primary role, or double down on it’s primary role – the choice is yours. A tank might be able to make a wall, blocking monsters into an area where only he can be hit. A damage specialist might have skills that create weaknesses in their enemy, letting everyone do more damage in turn. A support class might be able to bolster your allies with magic, hardening them against the ruthless foes that seek to strike you down..."

    -group dynamics blog post on IS website.

    They've said a variation of this quote a number of times and what they're trying to say is it allows you to customize how you do your primary role. So tanks in this game will only be Tank primary archetype. But with secondary archetypes, augments, skill point usage, ability choices, weapon and armor choices, etc. you can make at least 8 varieties of tank. There's a ton of customization available.

    So when they say "personalize your character outside of it's primary role" they mean using your options to maybe be a more DPS oriented tank (but still main tank) or something like that. Or taking the Cleric we saw they had a number of DPS abilities and some CC and utility. Maybe one Cleric wants to be really offensive and specs into their DPS abilities, and finds a DPS oriented secondary archetype to really help them strengthen that. But they still are the healer of a party - similar to the Aion Cleric when played as DPS Cleric. Neither will fill a DPS role, and vice versa - a Fighter/Tank will not fill a Tank role. They would just be a physical DPS class with perhaps more defenses, or better CC or who knows what augments a tank will offer.

    Then the quote, "double down on it's primary role" is the Tank/Tank or Cleric/Cleric "pure" classes. The idea there is strengthening your primary role and being more powerful at that one thing at the expense of the versatility the other builds might provide.

    versatility isn't always good ;)
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