Theory Crafting: Summoner Archetype(In response to latest Summoner Ashes twitter post)

First post, so please go easy on me

.

Sharing my ideas in response to twitter post:https://twitter.com/AshesofCreation/status/1689985383205916673?s=20

Spent some time crafting these ideas, so I thought I will share, not sure how much is feasible development wise, but this will be my summoner fantasy.

Please feel free to share your thoughts.

Here I go.

Enchanter (Buff bots, Pixie or Spirits) : Earth Pixie(Tank buffs), Fire Pixie (DPS buffs), Ice Pixie (Crowd Control), Water Pixie(Regen Buff)
Necromancer : Skeleton Warrior/Zombie(melee dps), Skeleton Knight(tank), Skeleton Mage(range dps), Skeleton Chief(Horseman-Buff+CC)
Wild-blade(Offensive Weapon summons): Giant Sword(Tank), Spear throws(Range Dps), Berserker's Axe(Lifesteal/Heal), Chain blade(CC)
Spellmancer(Colorful Elementals): Earth Elemental(melee tank), Fire elemental(range DPS), Ice elemental(CC), Water elemental(AOE OR Single target Heal bot)
Beastmaster(Animal spawns): Bears(Tank), Wolves(melee dps), Snakes/Ram (CC), Frog(Healing), Rabbits(movement speed buff bots)
Brood Warden(Shield summons): Tower Shield(Full Tank), Spike Shield(DPS+Tank), Aegis Shield(Medusa Stun/slow), Cleric Shield(rotating on target/Heal Over Time)
Shadowmancer build(Dark shadow abilities/No tank in this build) : Shadow hole(Invisible or untargetable/or short distance Teleport), blade of shadows(summons AOE dagger spawns for dps), Shadow Potions(summons Potions for Heal over Time), Shadow Traps(CC/Snare)
Conjurer(Mega Summoner brings Legendary Creatures/Entities) : Tortoise/Ox god(Tank/whichever suits Ashes Lore), Phoenix(range dps), Ice Dragon(CC/Slow), Tree of Life(Heal/Health/Regen buff). Miniature models of course

Looking forward to Staff and Community's thoughts

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">🙌 <a href="https://twitter.com/undead_pally?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@undead_pally</a> created a glorious Niküa Summoner for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FanFriday?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#FanFriday</a>!<br><br>🐺 What kind of summons are you hoping to create with the Summoner Archetype? <a href="https://t.co/MVyNWrNcFl">pic.twitter.com/MVyNWrNcFl</a></p>— Ashes of Creation (@AshesofCreation) <a href="

https://twitter.com/AshesofCreation/status/1689985383205916673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August

11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

Dolyem

I just want Necromancer to actually be about spoopy scary skeletons, death, and undeath for the sake of our boy @Nagash

Solvryn

I don’t want Wild Blade to be thematically tied to weapons.

Udyr from LoL. Druid + Barbarian from Diablo, Primalist from RIFT, Surv Hunter from WoW with animal thematics, Ranger from GW 2 with the animal thematics.

Hrykaan

@Solvryn I had written Udyr from LoL as well for Beast master, but removed it in final post. Udyr usually buffs self with those Beasts spirits, so that playstyle can also be viable if targets are allys.

BeOwningU

Very well composed, though I imagined the brood warden having more of an insect or arachnid vibe. Great post.

Zipp_Adoudel

I would rather them each have a unique flavor so it makes sense to switch them. Maybe Necromancer has dps minions while beast master has different kinds of tank animals. The cleric secondary summons healing minions. The enchanter might summon normal minions that get buffed with different types of elements while the rogue one is a shadow that looks to assasinate (ie big single hits on cc'd or unaware targets)

I think your list has too much of a same same kinda feeling. Almost every class has a tank, dps,cc and healing component. I think each one should have a niche that it is looking to fill and the summoner could be used as sort of a fill class in a party. Need an off tank, get the bear summon, need dps or need a certian type of dps, pick this one. This dungeon needs interrupts and cc, or we are going to pvp and cant interrupt the healers, get this class. Im not saying they dont have some level of crossover, but if they are all do the same thing, there isn't really a reason to choose one over the other for a particular event or day. I want the summoner to summon, but how those summons interact with the environment should all be different as well as how the summoner interacts with the summons.

Solvryn

Hrykaan wrote: »

@Solvryn I had written Udyr from LoL as well for Beast master, but removed it in final post. Udyr usually buffs self with those Beasts spirits, so that playstyle can also be viable if targets are allys.

Yeah, I imagine there will be some utility variation between fighter and wild blade

Ull

Dolyem wrote: »

I just want Necromancer to actually be about spoopy scary skeletons, death, and undeath for the sake of our boy @Nagash

necromancer should be a solo only class with the inability to join parties or guilds, with power to compensate

(your undead summons become your party and guild, would make for interesting pvp, and we all know thats how any necromancer worth their sugar and spice would operate. why need people when you have spooky scary skeletons)

undead summons should start as skeletons that evolve into more powerful skeletons through extremely long tedious processes that only real solo players will have the patience and skill to make it through

risk vs reward

Spif

I would imagine that the base Summoner will not just have persistent summons (MDPS/RDPS/Healer, maybe tank) but also short term summons that are a lot like other regular spells. Things like:

GTAE that damages and/or CCs in a specific area (swarm of insects kind of thing)
"Wave" type of attacks that move with the speed of Ball Lightning in a predetermined direction
Short term 10-30s duration and immobile (totems) that have an effect in a specific area
Short term mobile "dancing sword" summons. With a cooldown larger than their duration, these would be more powerful than persistent summons
Weapon and armor enhance summons that are actually buffs, but come with an appearance change

Then, to each of these things as well as persistent summons, you add an augment that modifies the appearance and/or effect. And on the balance side, some class augments could make specific areas more powerful than others. For example, the Fighter augments may make the weapon enhancement a lot better, the Tank augments could make the armor enhancement a lot better, while the Mage augments for the weapon/armor enhancements only make either a little better, but Mage enhancements make the GTAE's a lot better

Jindoshi

I'm hoping you can find epic pet spells to conjure a very strong pet that can tank and do decent damage and I hope that the summoner has some power dps spells. I had a summoner in Eq1 and with his spells and the son of wrath pet I could take down some serious mobs.

Songcaller

Enchanter should use aspects rather than minions. Like Roots, Webs, Hold Person, Charm, Disarm, Confuse, Mind Wrack, Blind, Silence, Disorient.

Enchanter should also be good in attack when enemies are under said conditions.

Vaknar

Great first post and discussion!

If you haven't checked it out, be sure to take a look at the wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Summoner

Also, if you have a question about Ashes of Creation, be sure to ask it here on the Q&A! https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56152/next-livestream-q-a-submission-thursday-august-31-2023-at-11am-pacific/p1

Nagash

Dolyem wrote: »

I just want Necromancer to actually be about spoopy scary skeletons, death, and undeath for the sake of our boy @Nagash

agreed

SirChancelot

Hrykaan wrote: »

First post, so please go easy on me .

Sharing my ideas in response to twitter post:https://twitter.com/AshesofCreation/status/1689985383205916673?s=20

Spent some time crafting these ideas, so I thought I will share, not sure how much is feasible development wise, but this will be my summoner fantasy.

Please feel free to share your thoughts.

Here I go.
Enchanter (Buff bots, Pixie or Spirits) : Earth Pixie(Tank buffs), Fire Pixie (DPS buffs), Ice Pixie (Crowd Control), Water Pixie(Regen Buff)

Necromancer : Skeleton Warrior/Zombie(melee dps), Skeleton Knight(tank), Skeleton Mage(range dps), Skeleton Chief(Horseman-Buff+CC)

Wild-blade(Offensive Weapon summons): Giant Sword(Tank), Spear throws(Range Dps), Berserker's Axe(Lifesteal/Heal), Chain blade(CC)

Spellmancer(Colorful Elementals): Earth Elemental(melee tank), Fire elemental(range DPS), Ice elemental(CC), Water elemental(AOE OR Single target Heal bot)

Beastmaster(Animal spawns): Bears(Tank), Wolves(melee dps), Snakes/Ram (CC), Frog(Healing), Rabbits(movement speed buff bots)

Brood Warden(Shield summons): Tower Shield(Full Tank), Spike Shield(DPS+Tank), Aegis Shield(Medusa Stun/slow), Cleric Shield(rotating on target/Heal Over Time)

Shadowmancer build(Dark shadow abilities/No tank in this build) : Shadow hole(Invisible or untargetable/or short distance Teleport), blade of shadows(summons AOE dagger spawns for dps), Shadow Potions(summons Potions for Heal over Time), Shadow Traps(CC/Snare)

Conjurer(Mega Summoner brings Legendary Creatures/Entities) : Tortoise/Ox god(Tank/whichever suits Ashes Lore), Phoenix(range dps), Ice Dragon(CC/Slow), Tree of Life(Heal/Health/Regen buff). Miniature models of course

Looking forward to Staff and Community's thoughts

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">🙌 <a href="https://twitter.com/undead_pally?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@undead_pally</a> created a glorious Niküa Summoner for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FanFriday?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#FanFriday</a>!<br><br>🐺 What kind of summons are you hoping to create with the Summoner Archetype? <a href="https://t.co/MVyNWrNcFl">pic.twitter.com/MVyNWrNcFl</a></p>— Ashes of Creation (@AshesofCreation) <a href="
https://twitter.com/AshesofCreation/status/1689985383205916673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August
11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I did a fun idea post for the brood warden once about summoning bugs of a sort. Similar to some Tyranid shield bugs, and having different bugs for different jobs.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Spif

Niem Lumel wrote: »

Not looking forward to the implementation and the introduction of the Summoner archetype. As long as it remains classified as the archetype that can become any role they choose it will forever be either way too useless or way too strong because of its versatility.

Since at the very least, you have to go back to a high-ish level town to change roles, I don't think OP in general is going to be an issue. You can't just carry several sets of gear with you and swap between offtank and DPS in the middle of a dungeon run.

The limitation for a Summoner-healer is going to be that you have to be the Summoner flavor of healer. A Cleric/x will have a choice between 8 different classes to customize their healing. If a Summoner wants to heal, they will have to take what they get, with some minor customization via skill points. This will be the same for the Summoner/Tank.

And that's stating the obvious I guess. But I expect that specific classes of any base archetype will be good at some things and less good at other things. Made-up Example: Mage/Rogue is good at PvP, but bad at raids. Mage/Ranger is good at raids and 8 mans, but bad at PvP. If you want to heal as a Summoner, you can't pick the best spec for a specific activity. You just have to deal with the way it is.

Summoner/dps will have some choices in it's setup with 5 or 6 DPS classes to choose from (not sure if Bard should be counted there)

willsummon

Ull wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

I just want Necromancer to actually be about spoopy scary skeletons, death, and undeath for the sake of our boy @Nagash

necromancer should be a solo only class with the inability to join parties or guilds, with power to compensate

In Age of Conan it was fun having Necromancers in a group/raid. Watching all those pets attack the boss at once was a treat in of itself.

On another note: If demons are not allowed to be pets. How about different types of jinn; from imps, to temptresses, to mages, to elemental warriors

Guajatu

Hrykaan wrote: »

First post, so please go easy on me .

Sharing my ideas in response to twitter post:https://twitter.com/AshesofCreation/status/1689985383205916673?s=20

Spent some time crafting these ideas, so I thought I will share, not sure how much is feasible development wise, but this will be my summoner fantasy.

Please feel free to share your thoughts.

Here I go.
Enchanter (Buff bots, Pixie or Spirits) : Earth Pixie(Tank buffs), Fire Pixie (DPS buffs), Ice Pixie (Crowd Control), Water Pixie(Regen Buff)

Necromancer : Skeleton Warrior/Zombie(melee dps), Skeleton Knight(tank), Skeleton Mage(range dps), Skeleton Chief(Horseman-Buff+CC)

Wild-blade(Offensive Weapon summons): Giant Sword(Tank), Spear throws(Range Dps), Berserker's Axe(Lifesteal/Heal), Chain blade(CC)

Spellmancer(Colorful Elementals): Earth Elemental(melee tank), Fire elemental(range DPS), Ice elemental(CC), Water elemental(AOE OR Single target Heal bot)

Beastmaster(Animal spawns): Bears(Tank), Wolves(melee dps), Snakes/Ram (CC), Frog(Healing), Rabbits(movement speed buff bots)

Brood Warden(Shield summons): Tower Shield(Full Tank), Spike Shield(DPS+Tank), Aegis Shield(Medusa Stun/slow), Cleric Shield(rotating on target/Heal Over Time)

Shadowmancer build(Dark shadow abilities/No tank in this build) : Shadow hole(Invisible or untargetable/or short distance Teleport), blade of shadows(summons AOE dagger spawns for dps), Shadow Potions(summons Potions for Heal over Time), Shadow Traps(CC/Snare)

Conjurer(Mega Summoner brings Legendary Creatures/Entities) : Tortoise/Ox god(Tank/whichever suits Ashes Lore), Phoenix(range dps), Ice Dragon(CC/Slow), Tree of Life(Heal/Health/Regen buff). Miniature models of course

Looking forward to Staff and Community's thoughts

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">🙌 <a href="https://twitter.com/undead_pally?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@undead_pally</a> created a glorious Niküa Summoner for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FanFriday?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#FanFriday</a>!<br><br>🐺 What kind of summons are you hoping to create with the Summoner Archetype? <a href="https://t.co/MVyNWrNcFl">pic.twitter.com/MVyNWrNcFl</a></p>— Ashes of Creation (@AshesofCreation) <a href="
https://twitter.com/AshesofCreation/status/1689985383205916673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August
11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The idea is good but I would change some elements... as in this case I would leave the ice element as part of the water element and for the combination of summoner+summoner it would give another unique boost in relation to the summoning mechanics. type of invocation granting damaging abilities, with 2 elements, and another beneficial one.
Tank= life regeneration+earth and lightning element buff for damage skills.
Dps= movement speed+fire+poison buff for damage skills.
Heal= mana regeneration+ wind+nature buff for damage skills, which can be passed on to other allies.
and still maintaining his idea of larger entities related to Ashes lore.

Enigmatic Sage

Nagash wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

I just want Necromancer to actually be about spoopy scary skeletons, death, and undeath for the sake of our boy @Nagash

agreed

holy shit, you do exist still.

Nagash

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47sfdlyx72fhsdi4jaks9qvtjkfjcxd73xv7s9dbi2&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Voeltz

Summoner will be an interesting class reveal. I see it being more of a versatile class that can fill either Damage, Tank or Support roles based on your secondary choice rather than strictly support. I can't imagine 8 combinations that are all similar in function just with different buffs and themes. Also can't imagine a Necromancer or Beastmaster doing nothing but buffing allies. The abilties should fit the archtype and theme otherwise whats the point in having them. I also think there should be a mix of long term summons like companions and temporary.

[*] Enchanter
Emphasis on group buffs, ground target AOEs, weapon enchants, summons that provide buffs to allies

Necromancer : this one's a given from the name. Summons Undead/skeletons with lifesteal/self healing abilities.

Wild-blade:
Something like Irelia in LoL with sword summons from Fable. Spirit weapons that can be directed in quick motion and some that control themselves.

Spellmancer(Colorful Elementals): Spot on with this one using elementals. Elementals that have their own magical abilities, status fields, CCs, elemental themed support abilities

Beastmaster(Animal spawns):
Also a giveaway with the name. Everything beast/nature themed but with an offensive approach due to the Ranger secondary. Animal like abilities, Animal summons, Bears, wolves, tiger, eagle, snake, etc.

Brood Warden Spider/insect summons. A Broodmother summon that acts as a tank summons spiderlings, web ensnaring rooting abilities, cacoon ability from HOTS anubarak

Shadowmancer
Something like Zed from League of Legends with his shadows, shadows have their own abilities or mimic certain abilities that the Shadowmancer has

Conjurer : I imagine this one as well as the Summoner class being Spirit themed, group buffs, weapon enchantment buffs, Spirits with their own abilities

Child Item