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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
A take on the Augment/Class systems
Lordrid
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
So I am always hearing about how the class and augmentation system might make or break AOC. Some people go as far as to say that the developers need to scrap the class system altogether and build it from the ground up. Here is my take on some concerns and examples of how I think it might work.
concern - the archetypes/classes will not provide enough play styles to feel like a different class.
my take - I think that the skill tree system itself will provide enough diversification for multiple play styles. Take the cleric for example. We were showcased around 15 skills. The wiki states, that the max skills a player can have on their action bar are around 15-20, but there will be around 35-40 skills that they can choose from. I think the way you choose to allocate points to these skills can make a unique playstyle.
Lets Theory craft:
For example, again let's use the cleric, you could spec into melee skills, wear plate, use a mace/shield or staff, choosing tank or fighter for your secondary could provide the necessary augments for other skills to be augmented to melee range. for example, resplendent beam could be augmented to shoot a beam of light directly in front of the cleric, it would make you position well and get as many players in the beam as possible.
if instead, you wanted a HoT playstyle, you would spec into HoT skills rather than melee heals. you could choose ranger as your secondary and augment the skills with the school of nature (each secondary class having multiple schools) and you could come up with a druid like healer. an example of an augment would be to change the wave skills (can't remember the name) to have vines come up from the earth in a path in front of the cleric which provides a heal over time for allies and instead of damage to enemies, snares them instead.
The class augment system would tie into the playstyle you choose or vice versa. i.e. You wouldn't choose to spec into melee healing skills then choose mage/ranger as your secondary because mage/ranger augments instead complement ranged skills.
lets use the ranger as an example. rangers typically are good at single target dps, but you want to play a more aoe style ranger. Then you might choose mage as your secondary and the augment system might look like this. you will probably need to imagine the UI so bear with me. You would open your skill tree UI, pick the skill you want to augment, choose between class, race, social faction or religious augments whatever is available. for this scenario, we choose class augments, so the 4 schools from mage show up (fire, ice, lightning, arcane), these would be your different flavours for different situations. so let's apply this to some of the known skills from the ranger.
1. Snipe - mage augment - held ability, imbues your arrow with elemental damage (fire, ice, lightning or arcane), the longer the duration held, the more stacks of elemental ailments (burning, chill, shock etc.) that will be applied, maximum of three stacks.
2. Quickshot - mage augment - rather than having 3 stacks and firing in quick succession, it now shoots all three arrows in a cone in front of the ranger dealing elemental damage and applying a stack of elemental ailment.
3. Airstrike - mage augment - now becomes a vector targeted ability, imbues your arrow with elemental damage, the ranger shoots an arrow in the sky which then lands as either a meteor storm, lightning storm, blizzard or arcane volley in the targeted vector.
The Scion (ranger/mage) now has a very different feel/playstyle from the ranger we witnessed.
Don't forget we haven't even seen many if any passive skills I could imagine a passive skill for the tank that provides damage mitigation based on armor. Then an augment from the rogue would change damage mitigation to evasion and then have evasion tanking viable.
Another example of an augment could be for the tank's Aegis ability. Let's say you chose cleric secondary, let's say there are two schools (holy and death).
Aegis - cleric augment - the skill now places a half sphere on the ground around the tank (think titan ability in destiny 2). Incoming damage from outside the sphere is greatly mitigated (80%) and provides a small HoT for allies within the sphere.
This would be a great sieging ability that could help tanks be more useful in PVP. Imagine during a castle siege, it would greatly mitigate ranged enemies and anyone using the ballista and forces the melee defenders to come and take out the tank, putting them in range of your ranged allies.
Concern there are too many potential skills and abilities with augments and this will be a development and balancing nightmare.
my take When AoC is launched, not every skill will have augments available from all classes, religions, races etc. it will be quite specific. I.e. if you want to be a scion (ranger/mage) then out of your 35-40 abilities there will only be 4-5 that can be augmented by mage, another 4-5 that will have tank augments, 4-5 with summoner augments and so on. As expansions come in, more abilities will be given augments. This would eliminate the need to add new classes as a whole build/playstyle could be implemented just by adding more options for augmentation. If you have ever played a game like POE think of how many ways you can play one class, the class doesn't really dictate the playstyle, it's how you choose to allocate your skill points into your build.
I know its a bit of a long post but I hope this might open some peoples mind to the potential of the 64 class system and they stop bagging it out. please leave your thoughts on the class/augment system. peace.
concern - the archetypes/classes will not provide enough play styles to feel like a different class.
my take - I think that the skill tree system itself will provide enough diversification for multiple play styles. Take the cleric for example. We were showcased around 15 skills. The wiki states, that the max skills a player can have on their action bar are around 15-20, but there will be around 35-40 skills that they can choose from. I think the way you choose to allocate points to these skills can make a unique playstyle.
Lets Theory craft:
For example, again let's use the cleric, you could spec into melee skills, wear plate, use a mace/shield or staff, choosing tank or fighter for your secondary could provide the necessary augments for other skills to be augmented to melee range. for example, resplendent beam could be augmented to shoot a beam of light directly in front of the cleric, it would make you position well and get as many players in the beam as possible.
if instead, you wanted a HoT playstyle, you would spec into HoT skills rather than melee heals. you could choose ranger as your secondary and augment the skills with the school of nature (each secondary class having multiple schools) and you could come up with a druid like healer. an example of an augment would be to change the wave skills (can't remember the name) to have vines come up from the earth in a path in front of the cleric which provides a heal over time for allies and instead of damage to enemies, snares them instead.
The class augment system would tie into the playstyle you choose or vice versa. i.e. You wouldn't choose to spec into melee healing skills then choose mage/ranger as your secondary because mage/ranger augments instead complement ranged skills.
lets use the ranger as an example. rangers typically are good at single target dps, but you want to play a more aoe style ranger. Then you might choose mage as your secondary and the augment system might look like this. you will probably need to imagine the UI so bear with me. You would open your skill tree UI, pick the skill you want to augment, choose between class, race, social faction or religious augments whatever is available. for this scenario, we choose class augments, so the 4 schools from mage show up (fire, ice, lightning, arcane), these would be your different flavours for different situations. so let's apply this to some of the known skills from the ranger.
1. Snipe - mage augment - held ability, imbues your arrow with elemental damage (fire, ice, lightning or arcane), the longer the duration held, the more stacks of elemental ailments (burning, chill, shock etc.) that will be applied, maximum of three stacks.
2. Quickshot - mage augment - rather than having 3 stacks and firing in quick succession, it now shoots all three arrows in a cone in front of the ranger dealing elemental damage and applying a stack of elemental ailment.
3. Airstrike - mage augment - now becomes a vector targeted ability, imbues your arrow with elemental damage, the ranger shoots an arrow in the sky which then lands as either a meteor storm, lightning storm, blizzard or arcane volley in the targeted vector.
The Scion (ranger/mage) now has a very different feel/playstyle from the ranger we witnessed.
Don't forget we haven't even seen many if any passive skills I could imagine a passive skill for the tank that provides damage mitigation based on armor. Then an augment from the rogue would change damage mitigation to evasion and then have evasion tanking viable.
Another example of an augment could be for the tank's Aegis ability. Let's say you chose cleric secondary, let's say there are two schools (holy and death).
Aegis - cleric augment - the skill now places a half sphere on the ground around the tank (think titan ability in destiny 2). Incoming damage from outside the sphere is greatly mitigated (80%) and provides a small HoT for allies within the sphere.
This would be a great sieging ability that could help tanks be more useful in PVP. Imagine during a castle siege, it would greatly mitigate ranged enemies and anyone using the ballista and forces the melee defenders to come and take out the tank, putting them in range of your ranged allies.
Concern there are too many potential skills and abilities with augments and this will be a development and balancing nightmare.
my take When AoC is launched, not every skill will have augments available from all classes, religions, races etc. it will be quite specific. I.e. if you want to be a scion (ranger/mage) then out of your 35-40 abilities there will only be 4-5 that can be augmented by mage, another 4-5 that will have tank augments, 4-5 with summoner augments and so on. As expansions come in, more abilities will be given augments. This would eliminate the need to add new classes as a whole build/playstyle could be implemented just by adding more options for augmentation. If you have ever played a game like POE think of how many ways you can play one class, the class doesn't really dictate the playstyle, it's how you choose to allocate your skill points into your build.
I know its a bit of a long post but I hope this might open some peoples mind to the potential of the 64 class system and they stop bagging it out. please leave your thoughts on the class/augment system. peace.
3
Comments
Scrap it. Build 20 solid classes.
What about diversity?
Each class should have a large pool of abilities divided in adventure utilities and combat.
The combat skills should be split between 3 weapons. For example a Fighter should have 3 combat trees, one for dualwield, one for 2h and 1 for spear.
Let them equip heavy, medium or (I cant say that with a straight face...) robe armors.
Some animations/skills could overlap between classes. Like Shield Bash... leave it the same.
I find the whole "unlock/forheit/theorycraft" skills in the skill tree for 8 classes, lacking. Not suitable for mmos.
Mmos need a big variety of proper playstyles for visual satisfaction and gameplay satisfaction. Not unlimited back-end modifications with the same, 8 gameplay options.
BDO wasn't even close enough with the awakening system. Why would they lock out half your characters playstyle? Maybe if they had 3 weapons and an actual good combat. Not this Tekken/MK shit.
I think I described how diverse it could be in the post. You spec into your playstyle you want, then choose a secondary archetype that complements that playstyle. Spec your DPS into burst damage, damage over time, AOE, single target etc. Spec your tank into damage mitigation and just tank the damage, spec into a control tank that can CC mobs to make smaller groups or spec into evasion tanking. There's multiple different playstyles for each archetype. Honestly though, until we get our hands on it in alpha 2, it's all just speculation.
I'd still like to see them veer from their initial intended roles, but I know I'm the minority with that opinion.
You are in the minority of unrealistic expectations
Cooldowns actually make it tougher to balance a class with a lot of skill choices, since a long cooldown usually makes a skill more powerful. That makes a long cooldown skill useful without as many skill points, assuming there's a rotation going on. Simple case:
If each skill point alters a skill to be 10% more powerful, then 3 skill points will give you 30% more bang for you cooldown. But if a 30 sec cooldown skill gives 40% more damage than a 6s cooldown skill, you would still add that 30s cooldown skill to the rotation any time it is up
If each skill point alters a skill to be 20% more powerful, then 3 skill points will give you 60% more damage for your cooldown. In this case, it would not be useful to add that 30s skill to the rotation. Rather, you would keep it in reserve as a reactive maybe, or just not put it on the bar at all
I realize that skill points will do a lot more than just add damage (they change cooldown, damage, add effects, change to AE, and a lot more), but the above illustrates how skill points can be set to make only skills that you invest in optimal for use.
Augments can make balancing easier, by having a specific augment be really good for certain skills and less good for others. Take the ranger and this completely made up example:
Ranger/fighter has augments for melee attacks that are very good (increase damage and/or cc and/or range, etc). But the augments for long range bow attacks are just decent.
Ranger/mage has augments for melee attacks that are decent, but are more about utility/looks/dots. They just not as good as the ranger/fighter ones. But the Ranger/mage augments for long range and AE attacks are very good.
Ranger/cleric has augments for melee and range that add a decent amount of damage, but add lifetap or buffs or other "utility type stuff". They will be set at a lower damage potential than ranger/fighter for melee attacks and lower than ranger/mage for ranged/AE attacks
I imagine there will be specific locations where we can change them. Maybe trainers, shrines, quests, etc. In big cities, for a reasonable fee. That would work well imo.
I'm ok with that, I'd rather see something new and different than the same thing that's always done like what you're asking for...
Everybody would like them to feel different.
Everybody understands it cant happen.
Except you ofc.
That's not what I said, but ok
You said "Im special".
So here's the problem with your take.
What you are saying is they have 64 unique classes at the launch of the game, but we have to wait for half the leveling experience to get those classes.
Why am I waiting for that give me 12-15 of those classes as base classes. 4 Gish classes (Cleric, Anti-Cleric, Shaman, Arcane Knight), 4 Casters (Necromancer, Mage, Druid, Priest), 4 Melee classes (Fighter, Rogue, Paladin, Anti Paladin), 2 Ranged (Ranger, Archer).
Oh look instead of me putting points into things to make my class into the class I actually want I can focus on making my class more efficient in the way I want. And yes while you can equip a shield and a mace and put on some heavy armor that doesn't make it a good idea or fucking effective. And the first time your swinging your mace as an auto attack that does fuck all damage and some one dies cause you didn't see their life drop your going to get kicked out of the group.
Now give me one good reason why the above 14 classes wouldn't work as base classes rather then the 8 we have now?
And if you can't think of a good reason why they wouldn't skip a boring ass step like picking your aesthetic over 20 levels. Then riddle me this batman why didn't they just make that the original plan?
Maybe because shock fucking horror they can't because you not getting 64 unique classes your getting 8 flavors of each class.