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"Combat pets"

George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
edited September 2023 in General Discussion
...keeps popping up within the AoC community since the recent interview that Steven gave.

At some point in L2 we all rolled around with combat wolves (the animal that captivates me most in reality) for the dps they added.

We shared xp with our pet wolves (which we had to quest, lv up and gear for) but all in all they made progress faster. And they were EVERYWHERE.

I disagree with combat pets, they steal focus from all classes and they make everybody a summoner.
They are visual clutter.
They are not a new gameplay experience. They are mandatory meta annoyance.

Will it impact negatively animal husbabdry sooo much? I dont think so.

I say we give our feedback.

Why do you like combat pets?
Why dont you like them?
What are the benefits to the game?
What negatives do they bring?
What parameters would make then acceptable IF you dont like them.
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Comments

  • +1
    I don't like combat pets for the same reason I don't like the Summoner archetype - it helps and even encourages solo gameplay in group-based game.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't know. I do love combat pets but I don't like how we become reliant on combat pets too.
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  • RuerikRuerik Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Also not a fan of combat pets for everything said here.

    Instead I would rather see 'summons', where you cast the spell, and then some creature shows up, does damage or healing or something for a few seconds, and leaves.
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Korela wrote: »
    +1
    I don't like combat pets for the same reason I don't like the Summoner archetype - it helps and even encourages solo gameplay in group-based game.

    I always thought of summoners as people that dont like friends.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Taerrik wrote: »
    Also not a fan of combat pets for everything said here.

    Instead I would rather see 'summons', where you cast the spell, and then some creature shows up, does damage or healing or something for a few seconds, and leaves.

    That seems like class identity.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Korela wrote: »
    +1
    I don't like combat pets for the same reason I don't like the Summoner archetype - it helps and even encourages solo gameplay in group-based game.

    it's doable - just dont make the pets to OP to allow solo gameplay.

    See original Mages and Enchanters in EQ (not P99 - wasnt true to classic). Necro were the only ones capable of solo'ing but that didnt happen till way later, when everything became min/max number crunching - a specific path opened up to allow necro the ability to solo... and I am okay with that type of aspect. But in general - you can make pets work w/o being OP enough to allow single play.

    Pets cant taunt, EVER. Can be killed decently quick, low AC and/or HP. Allow them to have decent, above avg DPS output - sure. but no tanking/taunting capabilities. They can aggro and will probably die real quick.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I like them cause I like pets. And if I'm gonna have a pet follow me around, it might as well fight too.

    The benefit is having another target for your opponent to kill/cc and another source of dmg in case you get CCed.

    Do agree that they can add visual clutter, but with them taking a part of your char's power I don't really know how many people would want to have them. L2's wolves were cool cause they were their own power source. Yes, they needed your xp and money, but it was worth it because it was a direct increase in your overall power value. In Ashes it won't be (or at least doesn't seem to be).

    And if only some people bring pets then the clutter is not as impactful either.
  • I like pets. I think they can add interesting options. I agree that they shouldnt be too powerful, so that they dont interfere with role allocation of classes too much. If there are enough viable pets, that work in a passive way, e.g. toggled auras or links with players, then it could perhaps remedy some of the issues mentioned above.

    Also I hope pets won't be too huge for obvious reasons.

    However i understand that in PvP having to carry some pet around for minor dps-increase that dies easily, can be very annoying. Maybe there could be some pets, that only sourround the players like ghosts and help occasionally (with attacks, buffs/debuffs or w/e they do) but aren't physically quite there and therefore can't be killed? So that they work like some additional skiils, that you can cast independently from your actual character. just a suggestion.


    Bottom line: I like pets. But I understand why some take issues with them.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I prefer the swg approach to pets but swg didn't have a summoner class.
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  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Although it's not an archetype I'm interested in playing, I agree with most of the replies in this thread.

    Summoners shouldn't lose their identity.

    I'm fine with permanent pets as long as the archetype is balanced with the rest of the archetypes.

    All that said, I know George's favorite combat pets are the sorcerer pets in ESO ...

    B)
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Now, that's a lie.
  • 3Earthling33Earthling3 Member, Alpha Two
    I agree with everything said by OP. My main reasons for not liking combat pets is balance and screen clutter. Even though it’s said that pets will take part of your dps as their own, it is still a second target people will have to focus on. So it pretty much adds HP to the person with the pet. So if I’m fighting someone with a pet it makes sense for me to have a pet for that added second source of HP/focus. This makes me believe pets will be meta and there is really no way around everyone running them. Now circle back to screen clutter from everyone having them.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    The big losers of combat pets are all the aggressive classes, whilst tanks and supports benefit unfairly.

    Unless we want to steal everything from summoners and introduce a variety of combat pets, like tank pets, healing pets, etc, to improve aggressive classes.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    i dont see how summoners or pets encourage solo gameplay
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    i dont see how summoners or pets encourage solo gameplay

    Usually because the ai is gimped against multiple targets. Its why hunter was the fastest solo leveller in wow for ages 👌
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  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't like to call for cuts to anything that others might be looking forward to.

    But yeah...combat pets. If it was my game, it never even would have come up in mundane design conversation.

    Screen clutter.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    Or if people want this variety so badly, combat pets should be killable by even non-combatants.
    Bypass the pvp systems.

    Have them, but defend them if you want them.

    Waste the time to develop them for a small benefit, but let them fall victims to circumstances (raiding, grinding, pvping).
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Think a good way on approaching this is if you have a full group 8/8 with no spare spots you can't summon a combat pet. This was done in swtor with your crew only taking up spare slots if you didn't have a full party.

    That way for the most part it won't be a clutter nor add more targets than normal. while allowing people without as many people to have their pets help with their content and fun for more solo / small group of players.

    Win win for everyone.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    i dont see how summoners or pets encourage solo gameplay

    Usually because the ai is gimped against multiple targets. Its why hunter was the fastest solo leveller in wow for ages 👌

    alot of that came down to having 0 down time between fights since pet healed faster than eating or drinking and you could typicaly just aa a mob and use heal pet and regen ur mana back during the fight so u never had to stop :P

    I also think outside of pet classes there needs to be a trade off for using a pet other wise everyon will be using combat pets and not using one is not viable :P
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    I could go either way, on them.

    Never was a fan of combat pets in other games - but as long as it's lateral and doesn't make NOT having one a fatal personal lacking, then yours truly has no objection.



  • I think only summoner class should be able to use tamed creatures for combat.
    If the summoner decides to use a tamed pet for combat then it should do that by replacing it with a summon somewhere in a node or freehold where tamers train the creatures.
    Freshly tamed creatures should not be as effective as trained creatures.
  • Doesn't add value to the game IMO, only creates annoyances. Becomes mandatory to have because they're free stats and/or abilities. Now I have to go grind gold or certain locations to get something I didn't care about in the first place and spend more time leveling the damn thing up. If I wanted to play a pet class, I would just play a summoner. Also creates a massive amount of screen clutter during battles if everyone is running one. Not to mention it undermines an entire class by taking its core feature and granting it to everyone. You should have to roll a summoner primary or secondary at least to have summoning/pet abilities.
  • morphwastakenmorphwastaken Member
    edited September 2023
    I would not want to see them during mass PvX, otherwise i don't care. I like Mag7spy suggestion.
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Think a good way on approaching this is if you have a full group 8/8 with no spare spots you can't summon a combat pet. This was done in swtor with your crew only taking up spare slots if you didn't have a full party.

    That way for the most part it won't be a clutter nor add more targets than normal. while allowing people without as many people to have their pets help with their content and fun for more solo / small group of players.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    As long as they take up a slot in the Party, then I guess it's fine. If you don't have the players online to fill your group, then stick on a Combat Pet. If you do, then the extra player is likely to be more beneficial.


    Edit: Just seen that Mag7Spy has suggested the same thing....
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    I disagree with combat pets, they steal focus from all classes and they make everybody a summoner.
    They are visual clutter.
    They are not a new gameplay experience. They are mandatory meta annoyance.

    I think i can see your Point here.

    While it would be cool, if any kind of Tank/heavy Fighter could for Example have a "Guard Dog",
    (this would also be cool for Roleplay),

    wouldn't it be strange if " EVERYBODY " runs around with at least one Animal Companion, like a Bird, Cat, Dog, Wolf, Boar, etc. ?? x'D

    I mean,
    when i haven't read wrong : Combat Pets "weaken" the Players Character. Otherwise as compared to "Summons" from a Summoner-Class, who are part of the Power of the Summoner.


    But i am getting a headache already, thinking what will happen when a HUUUUGE Group of Players fights each other in a huge Battle on for Example a Node/City and if it will fall and be destroyed : or stay defended and keep running.

    One Extra-Mob for every single Player around ?? Oooff. Am i getting old already or is this justified that i am already getting a Headache just thinking about this ? ^.^;"
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    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    don't like 'em, hope that not using one is viable, because as a competitive player, if there is even a slight disadvantage of not using it in comparison to other players that use, I will be forced to have one, the 10% power reduction sounds weird, and doesn't sound like much if pets have utility or healing / buffs that might make a big difference
    img]
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    I would not want to see them during mass PvX, otherwise i don't care. I like Mag7spy suggestion.
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Think a good way on approaching this is if you have a full group 8/8 with no spare spots you can't summon a combat pet. This was done in swtor with your crew only taking up spare slots if you didn't have a full party.

    That way for the most part it won't be a clutter nor add more targets than normal. while allowing people without as many people to have their pets help with their content and fun for more solo / small group of players.

    Dedicated large pvp like sieges and stuff you wouldn't see them because it should be group based and all groups are full.
  • No no no no and no. I don't want everyone running around with pets, I don't want to micro manage a pet to be effective, I want my class to be my class, and I DON'T want months and months of dev time being used up making combat pets and systems around feeding and managing them.
    I'm totally fine with having summoner classes and people who want to play that way having a way to play that way, but I hate having to be forced into it because it is the optimal thing to do for everyone.
  • Mfcrackers69Mfcrackers69 Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    Not a fan of the combat pet...That is why there is the summoner class... all combat pets do is push players into a solo type of play.... allowing, Characters to kill more or higher lever mobs than otherwise possible.... just one Copium addicted Dinosaurs 🦖 opinion...
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    Dedicated large pvp like sieges and stuff you wouldn't see them because it should be group based and all groups are full.

    Yea, that's why i like it :smile:
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