Racial Armor Appearance

Mionikoi

So a while back I had a round table discussion with JamieKaos and NuclearTango concerning armor converting to a racial style depending on the wearer. The image of a kaelar human and a Vek orc both wear the ambitious academic armor set, and having next to nothing in common. It didn't set well with me.

So, I wanted to open this discussion to everyone here. Are you okay with what we know about Intrepid's plans for armor appearance or do you have your own ideas?

I for one would like armor to have it's own identity and for racial armor to be shared to some degree and aspect with other races. Essentially, 'Crafting Your Legacy' if you will.

What are your thoughts?

tautau

I like how they are doing it now.

Enigmatic Sage

Personally, I prefer and like the thematic decision for racial armour designs.

It adds that unified feeling to the races background and lore returning to Verra. We'll still have lots of options with transmogrifications and costumes to some degree but definitely like it. It may not be as immersivity exclusive like the War Hammer universe where it's more racially faction based but it provides some options to do that if a guild wants to be racially exclusive for that fantasy guild orientation if desired.

IE: all orc or all human guilds etc

Mionikoi

I don't know. I like the idea of maybe starting out only being able to wear 'racial bound armor' but as you adventure and do quests around the world, you gain the ability to also wear other racial armors or gain some influences from other races but still have yours as the 'base.'

Taleof2Cities

Mionikoi wrote: »

I don't know. I like the idea of maybe starting out only being able to wear 'racial bound armor' but as you adventure and do quests around the world, you gain the ability to also wear other racial armors or gain some influences from other races but still have yours as the 'base.'

Ashes will let you do just that with the current system, @Mionikoi.

Gear is intended to be realistic and armor will take on a racial appearance (according to the Wiki). You'll be able to don racially-appropriate attire soon after entering the game.

However, as mentioned in another reply already, some players will be entering the world with costumes or other cosmetics ... which may or may not be racially appropriate.

Hopefully your idea isn't to restrict all players to bound armor at the start. There are quite a few "let's regulate character appearance" forums threads recently ... which we wouldn't want to re-hash here.

George_Black

Wasn't the plan to have the armor design look sligtly different from race to race, but mostly share the color pattern, like in L2.

Also, so far we are seeing monthly cosmetic skins worn by the Devs, which unlike the ingame armors, will look the same on all models.

It's also surprising to me that people would like racial locked armors but are against the idea or racial locked classes.

Mionikoi

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Ashes will let you do just that with the current system, @Mionikoi.

Gear is intended to be realistic and armor will take on a racial appearance (according to the Wiki). You'll be able to don racially-appropriate attire soon after entering the game.

However, as mentioned in another reply already, some players will be entering the world with costumes or other cosmetics ... which may or may not be racially appropriate.

Hopefully your idea isn't to restrict all players to bound armor at the start. There are quite a few "let's regulate character appearance" forums threads recently ... which we wouldn't want to re-hash here.

Rather than restrict, I like the same or more customizability that you see when using the outfit station from ESO and having the possibility of multicultural attire like you see in Khenarthi's Roost. Things that make sense to an area, rather than just a race's aesthetic.

Shabooey

I quite like that armour sets will look slightly different on different races. I think it makes your race feel a bit more unique and it adds another element to your racial choices. It's one of the reasons I'm struggling to decide which race to play

Taleof2Cities

Mionikoi wrote: »

Rather than restrict, I like the same or more customizability that you see when using the outfit station from ESO and having the possibility of multicultural attire like you see in Khenarthi's Roost. Things that make sense to an area, rather than just a race's aesthetic.

Sure, as long as a player retains choice, I'm all for it.

Multicultural attire of "the area" sounds fun ... as long as players still have the option to "opt out" and wear a costume or cosmetic instead.

Mionikoi

Having said that, why is there such a disparity between the appearance of the Kaelar and the Vek, who are wearing the exact same thing?

Or rather, why does the 'Ambitious Academic' armor set have no identity of it's own?

Could it not have its own base material that is shared between the two? embroidery or patterns? I can understand and get behind each race having an influence on the armor's appearance. A touch of feathers, bone and hide for the Vek. For the Kaelar, additions of silk, cotton, and linen.

Or at least have them start out sharing the same base colors? (that we can dye later anyways.)

McShave

I'm ok with the same gear sets having different racial appearances. Each race has a distinct style, so it makes sense. A gear set that is high spirit cloth set (for clerics lets say) should look different between kaelar and vek. I imagine kaelar have monasteries and organized religion, like European catholicism. Vek would have more of a witch-doctor-y aesthetic, calling upon voodoo magic and sacrifice rituals. It's not to say you maybe will never find a vek in a monastery, idk if Intrepid intends for that kind of crossover in their lore.

When I first heard about racialized gear, I was hoping that the items would drop with racial specific restrictions, and that you would have to disassemble the item and craft one for your own race. I understand why they would not do that, it would be very unsatisfying to find an upgrade to have it not for your race, but I still feel this is correct from an rp perspective.

Raven016

I would like the crafters to be able to craft variations for winter, summer or biome specific, depending on what materials they use.

Nerror

Another thing they seem to be doing is changing the looks based on gender. In A1, the same cloak (as in, the same item traded over) was white when worn by a female, and black when worn by a male.

The costumes we bought in the shop do the same. For example, the https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Flawless_Finery costume is only one item, as I understand it, and when you wear it, it's either a dress if you're female, or the suit if male. You cannot wear a dress on a male character.


I don't like that. Especially not the color changes I saw on the cloak. I hope we at least get a choice which version to show, regardless of gender.

Mionikoi

McShave wrote: »

]I'm ok with the same gear sets having different racial appearances. Each race has a distinct style, so it makes sense. A gear set that is high spirit cloth set (for clerics lets say) should look different between kaelar and vek. I imagine kaelar have monasteries and organized religion, like European catholicism. Vek would have more of a witch-doctor-y aesthetic, calling upon voodoo magic and sacrifice rituals. It's not to say you maybe will never find a vek in a monastery, idk if Intrepid intends for that kind of crossover in their lore.

When I first heard about racialized gear, I was hoping that the items would drop with racial specific restrictions, and that you would have to disassemble the item and craft one for your own race. I understand why they would not do that, it would be very unsatisfying to find an upgrade to have it not for your race, but I still feel this is correct from an rp perspective.

I could understand that approach, but rather than making it where you can only use materials after deconning it, I think it would be awesome if you could refit the armor to fit your character.

Overall, I like the idea of a player being able to go to different nodes of different races and ask NPCs or players of different races to craft them armor. So a Tulnar asking a dwarf to make them a helmet. Dwarven style, fits a tulnar.

TheDarkSorcerer

Nerror wrote: »

Another thing they seem to be doing is changing the looks based on gender. In A1, the same cloak (as in, the same item traded over) was white when worn by a female, and black when worn by a male.

The costumes we bought in the shop do the same. For example, the https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Flawless_Finery costume is only one item, as I understand it, and when you wear it, it's either a dress if you're female, or the suit if male. You cannot wear a dress on a male character.


I don't like that. Especially not the color changes I saw on the cloak. I hope we at least get a choice which version to show, regardless of gender.

I think that particular costume will be slightly changed to be more in line with what the art department is currently doing. This illustration does not represent what AOC is today. I feel like it was done before AOC found their "style".

Nerror

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

Another thing they seem to be doing is changing the looks based on gender. In A1, the same cloak (as in, the same item traded over) was white when worn by a female, and black when worn by a male.

The costumes we bought in the shop do the same. For example, the https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Flawless_Finery costume is only one item, as I understand it, and when you wear it, it's either a dress if you're female, or the suit if male. You cannot wear a dress on a male character.


I don't like that. Especially not the color changes I saw on the cloak. I hope we at least get a choice which version to show, regardless of gender.

I think that particular costume will be slightly changed to be more in line with what the art department is currently doing. This illustration does not represent what AOC is today. I feel like it was done before AOC found their "style".

Ok, sure, but what about the point I was making?

You're fine with the automatic changes based on gender, or don't really have an opinion?

Dygz

I can recognize the gender differences as part of the same theme.
I cannot recognize that Vek Ambitious Academic outfit is intended to be the same theme as the Kaelar Ambitious Academic outfit.

I can imagine taking the Flawless Finery gown and cutting the material and sewing it differently to become a jacket and pants suit with the same themes.
I cannot imagine taking the Vek Ambitious Academic outfit and cutting the material and sewing it differently to become the Kaelar Ambitious Academic outfit.

The racial differences for WoW outfits make sense.
The Ashes example just looks like completely different sets, to me.

Mionikoi

Dygz wrote: »

I can recognize the gender differences as part of the same theme.
I cannot recognize that Vek Ambitious Academic outfit is intended to be the same theme as the Kaelar Ambitious Academic outfit.

I can imagine taking the Flawless Finery gown and cutting the material and sewing it differently to become a jacket and pants suit with the same themes.
I cannot imagine taking the Vek Ambitious Academic outfit and cutting the material and sewing it differently to become the Kaelar Ambitious Academic outfit.

The racial differences for WoW outfits make sense.
The Ashes example just looks like completely different sets, to me.

Indeed. The Ambitious Academic set as it was first introduced has a jarring difference between races that I don't see the set having it's own identity.

RazThemun

I think skins looking different for each race is acceptable. I do think some players may be a bit jaded if they buy skins and they don't looks exactly like what is pictured on another race. Let's be real though.... why would an armor set look the same on an orc and a dwarf? Clearly different in size and structure. I think the way intrepid is approaching it is very acceptable

Dygz

Also different in materials and aesthetics... as well as size and structure.
That's problematic.

Mionikoi

Dygz wrote: »

Also different in materials and aesthetics... as well as size and structure.
That's problematic.

There are games that have done armor sets on races with different body models. I am sure it is doable.

Dygz

It's doable. Just does not seem to be the same thing Ashes is doing.

Kilion

IMO a mix would be best. It does not make sense to me to have legendary items or gear closely tied to the lore and/or a specific race adapt to the wearers race. I gave an example in the past with the Oakenbane Armor Set where the lore (Steven) said this: "Oakenbane Keep was a proud Kaelar tradition that reached back to the days of the founding of the Aelan Empire.".

---

Gear that does not adapt:

• legendary items with big lore relevance (e.g. The Robe of King Artrax)
• dropped gear of a specific faction that is tied to a specific race
• crafted gear of a specific faction that is tied to a specific race

Gear that should adapt:

• "generic" crafted gear that is e.g. themed around a region or the materials used
• IF YOU UPGRADE a recipe for a piece of gear that is originally tied to a specific race

(Discussion) Upgraded recipies
This is just my personal recommendation on how to handle it. Make recipies from racial factions 2-staged. The "tribal"/original recipe which is designed for the race this faction is/was tied to.
The adapted/improved recipe which creates the race adapting gear.

This way people who want to wear the armor "of old" ("historically accurate) can wear the original and those who want the race adapted look can simply acquire that. Of course (if that is easier to program) maybe we can just have a "adapt to race" button for gear that is originally tied to a race.

Closing statement: In the overall design process I think this is at best a third rank question that I wouldn't worry about if not adressed at all by Intrepid before launch. There are much more important things to get right before this becomes actually relevant, given how the things I've seen so far were immersive enough as they are.

ArnasPanika

I love distinct styles of racial appearances. I couldn't imagine anything better than what L2 made 20 years ago. Below is an example of THE SAME SET. 3 versions - Dark Crystal Heavy armor, Dark Crystal Light armor and Dark Crystal robe armor. Not only applied to racial aesthetic, but to gender of that specific race as well. REMEMBER: this is the SAME SET with 3 different versions for "casters", "rogues/archers" and "tanks".

Mionikoi

I like the idea of motifs being an option for armor. I heard 'transmogrification' being thrown around and I suppose I just haven't played games that that is a feature in. With motifs, you both have something your character can earn, learn and make and a style material to farm. Some materials can also be sold from a type of NPC.