Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
There's precedent for implementing ammo without something like sharpening swords - e.g. the first 10 years of WoW. Hence, the 'if'. I prefer they didn't have ammo, unless it was special ammo.
Also, all classes need to repair their gear, a Ranger would need to repair their bow as well.
^
This I didn't wanted to post but survived because this forum saves every half edited idea. Actually I was looking for a different smiley, one more appropriate for "critical hit". Couldn't find one.
What I would not like to see is ammo taking inventory space.
Special ammo which runs out after using it is like having a buff which also runs out after leaving the city.
I think there will be more such game mechanics. Maybe spending some time in the tavern, eating fresh food. Or visiting some NPCs and getting their blessings.
Potions will also run out and serve a similar purpose. If we will have dexterity or poison potions, those could have the same effect as special ammo.
The disadvantage is that if everything relies on food and potions, then the artisan professions is also reduced to these two when it could actually spread into more. Ideally a player should require the services for more artisans to prevent players to be self sufficient and to reward players who prefer to be artisans and support classes.
Nominal ammo, 100% agree. Special ammo, it would make sense to take up space. BG3 is a good example.
Just parsing the two topics: buffs / special ammo, and consumable nominal ammo.
Agree with you that special ammo can essentially be treated the same as potions relative to the crafters that make either. Just another layer of the economy.
If consumable nominal ammo is a thing - I DO NOT want nominal ammo to have a cross dependency with other players. That would be a no good, vile, horrible, evil system.
Story part 2*
But i just came back from getting arrow that gold adds up, these mobs and tanky and I'm using hundreds of arrows, I'm not making any gold.
That is your fault for not being a mage, you wanted to be different knowing no one plays that class for any pve content. Have fun with another guild we just gong o black list you for wasting our time.
make an archer only party duh ;3
i dont like ammo too much but i suppose they exist for balance reasons, or some weird idea of balance. if you are carrying arrows, you are carrying less potions and other consumables than melee classes
I don't think there will be a limit on what you can carry really (within reason). My issues are seeing the game and its direction and the consequences. That is why i did the story though a more extreme take on negative player opinion.
I also don't like the comparison of they are just like buffs, as it only means they have another buff on top of every other one to get. Buffs should be more about players than this mico managing of 1000 foods and different types of potions.
Quiver is the best way to go having its own equipment type as it makes it more exciting. Such quivers can have a buff on them that allows your arrows to have higher increased chance to have elements.
Well I don't think its like that, just wondering. Also some people like ammo. Just asking a question to get input because if it could be implemented well, then its not boring. Its called a discussion man...add to it, think of something intelligent to say, don't just call people names, amigo.
What name did I call you?
So its only disccusion if someone agrees with you, and not when someone says it makes the game worse lmao. Liking ammo is not a reason to make a game worse without bringing up a valid reason for restriction while acknowledging the type of game and the gameplay loop.
You have done neither in advocating your point.
I came up with ammo for ranger weapons and reagents for casting spells.
I can live with it, I can live without it.
Probably won’t work for Ashes.
Well you didnt exactly call me a name, but you said that people were thinking something like "Guys, lets make this game bad for no reason."
I'm also just raising a question, not giving any answers. I was just curious. Debate with ideas or intelligent thoughts is a good thing, even if you disagree, but don't just point fingers and say we're trying to make the game bad. I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas about ammo and how if possible that implementation would be a good thing.
I did raise a point about maybe ships having ammo an interesting concept. I'm trying to reach for the lore aspect of how is this believable that rangers and ships can keep shooting without ammo because I'm somewhat a realist or whatever when it come to games. I can make compromises and I think no ammo in AoC is fine and I'm willing to compromise.
I just expect more from these conversations than insults. Ideas, or reasons why ammo is bad are better than insults.
So now you are making things up by admitting I didn't call you a name in attempt to play victim.
And i gave replies to the question, with my story comment and more feedback which can be an actual thing that happens in game. But You didn't choose to quote any of those more critical points.
I have 0 reason to sugar coat things, if something is bad I will say it is bad. If you want to defend your point on why it isn't bad you are fully free to. If i have a bad idea and someone says it is bad that is tot heir credit to do so and for me to list my reasons for why it isn't bad, using reasoning of my own based on my understanding of the game and referencing it.
Again it is a bad idea and it is bad to come up with idea force a bad idea to work within it. Similarly it be like wanting to ask how for a implement corrupted players being protected and able to pk freely as a bad idea (not that those 2 are the same just both bad takes) .
Saying your idea is bad is not a insult we are not snowflakes here, it is up to you to defend your take. If you can't give reasoning and are looking for others to give reasoning for you it simply means your idea is weak.
Ammo for ships sounds reasonable and helps with crafting, it will be a different gameplay loop and one that makes more sense. Ammo for players using arrows is not good because of kill times do to content. The game isn't designed around players buying items that limit what they can do like a survival game. Ie limited ammo, weapon durability, creature / player strength, etc.
And i don't fee like explaining reason for limits in those types of games as that should be basic understanding on the differences between a mmorpg and survival game where you kill things in a few shots - where a mmorpg like AoC has a player kill time of like 30 seconds, or very tanky mobs.
"So now you are making things up by admitting I didn't call you a name in attempt to play victim." You are failing to see you saying people just want to make the game bad as name calling, it's close enough. I didn't think we had to be so specific. You are nitpicking.
You did give replies, and I did read those after the fact. That's the type of discussion I appreciate, jut not the insults.
Again, I'm not trying to defend any point, I'm just saying insults are not welcome. Your summation of people discussing this matter in that quote was a over generalization. You should have stuck to your other well thought out points.
I'm ok with my idea being weak, Im ok with it being tested against others and to get their ideas. I'm asking for you to break my idea if it is weak please and thank you. I'm just also asking you to assume I'm not here to make the game worse.
I still need to think about the ammo for ships, and I appreciate the input. Is it worthwhile to build the system and test it say in Alpha2? maybe only after the non-ammo system is tested and only if there is left something wanting in crafting space related to naval game play. Test the different types of 'ammo' with a mechanic that implements the different types of shot (chain, grape, explosive, whatever) without having the ammo mechanic in the crafting side yet so we see how it plays out in battle.
I honestly don't believe in ammo enough to make the argument for it, yet. But again, if done well, I think more is better.
That brings me back to ultima online. man, yeah i actually liked that regent system.
Like you said, might not work in ashes, we'd maybe need to think of it across the board. all classes, melee players included.
But, I'm not sure i believe in this idea. I think its too advanced for newer players. They might give up on the game if a complicated regents system is implemented in my opinion. There might be a system like that for high level ritual like spells. I think that idea has some legs. Tell me what you think.
You have already agreed there was no name calling, now you are saying you are being insulted where lol?
Also the part in quotes " " from the other post were more comedic sarcasm with a half exaggeration. You personally don't want the game to be worse, but you might not understand as i pointed out earlier with the game that changes you want would lead to a worse game.
You are more worried about saying the idea without backing the design of it based on the gameplay. And when faced with question that talk about it with the game design elements we know you ignore those points.
We can start over though
Are you fine with range uses being at disadvantage without it,
Are you fine even if the lost it low it amounts to spending a lot of money on gold to buy these items,
Are the arrows going to be just basic materials or will there be more special arrow. If only basic arrows is the content of making these fun or pointlessly tedious, if special arrows how is balancing on the class going to be and price point to have to buy higher tier arrows when you need to buy hundreds per piece of content you are doing.
Sarcasm doesn't read well man.
Thing about that level of logistics and discipline is most people aren't capable of it, they'll just say its unfun in their idea of what a game is and leave it at that, that's fine.
Personally I think there's actually going to be too many abilities and spells for low end reagents to be viable, it's just not build with those things in mind.
But high level summons and super spells, yeah they should require some economics and logistics.
We'll see though, we're going into an A2 and the combat is no where near complete, we have no idea of what it'll look like.
Avoiding that actual input and focusing on the quotes I see. Exactly why I stick to just saying it is bad since people don't want to actual have a valid discussion on defending their points.
I'd expect no different than weapons in a normal case. But enhancement or other means might have some items work different than others.
I was just trying to guide you back to real points instead of useless nonsense, and what idea am I defending again? Last time I checked we kinda agreed on naval ammo. We both agree on land ammo being a no go at A2, but whatever ill bite. Ok, so now I am going to entertain the idea without actually endorsing it. Ok? This is a thought exercise.
Do you expect players to carry thousands of items around based on the current direction of combat in order to do content.
No. This one is a little tricky. The quivers seem alright. The only drawback is the ability to change it mid fight. you can pull a different arrow realistically speaking, but not put on an entirely different quiver. If there could be something like a multi faceted quiver with multiple spell slots that could present the ranger to pull different arrows at each time that would be cooler than just a single quiver with one effect. If we had an actual ammo count, that would probably obviously be too bulky. No Ranger is running around with even 100 arrows. Youd have to have some sort of collection mechanic like in Skyrim, but thats a bridge too far. Could be fun running around to pick up your OP arrows during combat, but whatever, a fight for another day
Are you fine with range uses being at disadvantage without it
Not really, maybe only in the sense above, but that seems like an entirely different game.
Are you fine even if the lost it low it amounts to spending a lot of money on gold to buy these items
I'm going to have to look past way too many typos, but I think you're saying something like "will it cost too much for players to buy ammo all the time?" I think if there is a cost for ammo it should be minuscule for basic a little more for better and more for even better ammo. There might be cool downs on using really good ammo too often, and reduced cool downs for basic ammo. That could balance things somewhat, but there is probably more work to do here.
Yeah, all good points, and I agree. I'd love to have some ritual mini game for mages/summoners while they try and summon maybe a dragon and the party has to fight off mobs while the mage/summoner plays a complex mini game. Performance determines dragons DPS. Could be used during siege, 2-3 or some minute summon. must have destroyed a religious temple during siege already or something as a predict. I guess this topic is going off the rails but oh well.
Ammo are apart of consumables, I don’t think it’s too off the rails.
Anything immensely power shifting should have cost(s) attached to it.
Now armaments for siege being limited is a conversation to have, just not bows/spells.
I haven't thought much about limited stuff for sieges. Is there a good video to watch to get caught up on the topic? Or whats the current game plan by Intrepid? Im not sure Id know where to begin other than the trebs or catapults being capped at so many so to speak.
Siegemasters will be a thing in Ashes, don’t know if the Sandal Lord and Intrepid worked out the details yet.
Awesome. I like the sound of that. This game just keeps getting better and better.
Is the Sandal Lord Steven S's handle?
That’s just what everyone calls Steven, he likes sandals and water fowl.
On the other hand, it could become annoying to run out of ammo consistently and during key moments. It would effect bow users disproportionately and give other weapon users the advantage of not needing ammo unless other comparable systems were created for them like melee weapons becoming dull after a while, casters needing an additional resource for spells like a spellstone or runes. Also, the time it would take IS to develop this system for negligible benefits could be better used on other aspects of the game. The positives and negatives of having ammo seem to be more negative, so that's likely why the decision was to leave it out of the game. I think most people would say it's a bad idea because it's a hassle for them to have to worry about it at all, which is understandable.
Yeah, totally fair point. I especially like the consideration of IS having to spend time on this. That, along with the possibility it might not play well.
I do like the gold sink and eco boost it creates somewhat. It could give new crafters an easy avenu to level up by selling arrows on the market, but that's maybe just one point in favor among many other not in favor.
Good thoughts.
I still fall on the side of no ammo particular because of the development time point you made. This game already has way more to offer to be concerned with ammo at this stage in my opinion. Maybe only much further down the line.