its because most mmorpg who offer a cooperative-competitive experience are usually p2w, p4c, etc or are kinda shitty so people just play league or cod. also, those mmorpg usually end up changing to cater the pure pvers and thats when they start losing players, not gaining more (maybe pve players spend more money in the game, who knows)
Think about what you are saying here.
A few points you are saying that you really, REALLY should be thinking on;
1; most games that aim to be PvP focused are either shit (as in, poorly developed), or are pay to win. What this means you are saying is that any competent MMO developer that knows how to do market research is keeping clear of this type of game, leaving it to those that can't make a decent game.
2; when PvP players feel a game isn't for them, they are more than happy to jump ship for multiple different genres. This has two distinct things you should be considering;
2a, these players you are talking about are going to be tempted to other games multipe times a year due to many of the games in the genres you are talking about have anual release stratigies. In the 10 or so years I played EQ2, the only game release that saw players consider leaving to play was Oblivion - PvP players have multiple every year that they will consider, and many will leave.
2b, even if players don't intend to leave the MMO, they will still spend a lot of time checking out each of these new games. This will still cause issues in regards to population - and from experience those players will bitch to the developer that they have fallen too far behind while they were away. In my experience, no MMO player whines more than a PvP player that feels they have been left behind (a generalization, obviously, but accurate).
In regards to both parts of this second point, keep in mind that I have said many times that PvP focused MMO's lose population much faster than PvE focused.
3, you complain about games shifting to a more PvE focus at the expense of PvP. Ask yourself why they do that - but be honest. Do you think they do it to make a few more dollars when there are (seemingly) no other MMO's out there catering to the crowd they are trying to cater to, or are they doing it because they realized that the crowd they are trying to cater to isn't large enough (or stable enough) to keep the servers up?
Surely if there were no other MMO's focusing on the PvP market, if that PvP market was viable, they would stick with it as the only option.
Could Ashes be different? I mean, anything is possible - but we have literally no reason at all to think it would be if Intrepid didn't actively try to get PvE focused players in to the game. As such, we would have to assume it will just be more of the same.
I believe ashes is trying to create a more socially dynamic game encouraging players to be part of a community opposed to solo play and theme park design for the sake of just farming. Many mmorpg's use transmogs and mount collecting to attract and retain players but that shouldn't be the main focus of the game. Ashes has a dynamic world building goal that will change from server to server depending on the player base and actions. There's many reasons to attract a variety of players to the game but ideally its goal is dynamic world building via nodes, guilds, sieges, economy etc.
There's many ways for players to enjoy the game but its endgame is more player driven opposed reaching some relative end point so you can collect everything on a plethora of alts across the theme park.
As far as the static nature of goals, Maybe I dont understand ashes PvP system enough of the problem in general.
I don't think there will be "static nature of goals." I might be mistaken, but here is my interpretation of how Intrepid wants this to play out.
There won't be a rush to "end game." Ashes will be a much slower game in terms of how fast it takes your character to level up, as well as the release of story content over time. The main quest line requires the world to develop and change over time, which is not something that you can rush. There will be a lot of down time of character leveling, resource gathering, node/ freehold building, etc.
The pvp comes from conflict between groups/nodes (most likely groups from different nodes, but different groups from the same node might fight each other i guess; not recommended). Dynamic world pvp will come from fighting over the right to farm resources in a certain area. Structured pvp will exist too, in castle and node sieges, as well as guild and node wars.
Also, one thing I'm skeptical on is the ability to gather enough people to zerg things (100+ players). The world is massive and the servers can only have so much population. There are a couple scenarios I can think of, however:
- At launch when people spawn in one of the few spawning portals in the world
- when we have metropolises and population is focused around those nodes
- streamers who ruin the fun for everyone else
I think my concerns are alleviated about this issue for the most part. I think the lack of fast travel and other pursuits the game has to offer might keep this mostly from happening especially for the low levels who have yet to explore more of the game. Maybe the higher levels will rampage across world for server firsts, but good for them oh well. Hopefully there will be multiple branches simultaneously open when world events trigger that will help for server history to be written by multiple groups. Not too worried about that aspect. I was mostly just worried about what I saw in the New World video. Looks really boring. get 100 pll and just 1 shot it.....great.....
Will depend on respawn timers, difficulty reaching the boss etc. WOW, GW2, ESO etc all had this issue. It is because it was to predictable of what bosses would spawn and when. Also it was to easy to reach said boss and not fear being wiped. If the respawns are sporadic it would minimize this.
Example- boss 1 respawns in 5 minutes, boss 2 in 3 minutes, boss 3 in 5 minutes, boss 4 in 6 minutes.= easy to just rotate the bosses and have minimal wait time as they form a train to farm them.
However if each boss sometimes spawns in 5 minutes and other times 30 minutes after dying this creates more difficulty in coordinating. As few will wait around for 2-3 hours to farm 3 or 4 bosses at random. Hopefully with lack of flying and the size of the map it would be harder to pull off being able to farm every boss doing a loop.
Will depend on respawn timers, difficulty reaching the boss etc. WOW, GW2, ESO etc all had this issue. It is because it was to predictable of what bosses would spawn and when. Also it was to easy to reach said boss and not fear being wiped. If the respawns are sporadic it would minimize this.
Example- boss 1 respawns in 5 minutes, boss 2 in 3 minutes, boss 3 in 5 minutes, boss 4 in 6 minutes.= easy to just rotate the bosses and have minimal wait time as they form a train to farm them.
However if each boss sometimes spawns in 5 minutes and other times 30 minutes after dying this creates more difficulty in coordinating. As few will wait around for 2-3 hours to farm 3 or 4 bosses at random. Hopefully with lack of flying and the size of the map it would be harder to pull off being able to farm every boss doing a loop.
Yeah, I mostly think this is true. I'm open to not worrying about this issue any longer. I'm moving onto other stuff like catching up on all the dev diaries. Each time i hear more about the game its gets better and better. Thanks for all the input.
Will depend on respawn timers, difficulty reaching the boss etc. WOW, GW2, ESO etc all had this issue. It is because it was to predictable of what bosses would spawn and when. Also it was to easy to reach said boss and not fear being wiped. If the respawns are sporadic it would minimize this.
Example- boss 1 respawns in 5 minutes, boss 2 in 3 minutes, boss 3 in 5 minutes, boss 4 in 6 minutes.= easy to just rotate the bosses and have minimal wait time as they form a train to farm them.
However if each boss sometimes spawns in 5 minutes and other times 30 minutes after dying this creates more difficulty in coordinating. As few will wait around for 2-3 hours to farm 3 or 4 bosses at random. Hopefully with lack of flying and the size of the map it would be harder to pull off being able to farm every boss doing a loop.
Most probably (and I hope) they will go for something like Lineage2 boss and epic boss respawn timers. Example: 12h + 24h random or 24h + 12h random or anything like this for bosses and for epic bosses from 2 or 3 days to 2/3 weeks or more + some random hours.
Comments
A few points you are saying that you really, REALLY should be thinking on;
1; most games that aim to be PvP focused are either shit (as in, poorly developed), or are pay to win. What this means you are saying is that any competent MMO developer that knows how to do market research is keeping clear of this type of game, leaving it to those that can't make a decent game.
2; when PvP players feel a game isn't for them, they are more than happy to jump ship for multiple different genres. This has two distinct things you should be considering;
2a, these players you are talking about are going to be tempted to other games multipe times a year due to many of the games in the genres you are talking about have anual release stratigies. In the 10 or so years I played EQ2, the only game release that saw players consider leaving to play was Oblivion - PvP players have multiple every year that they will consider, and many will leave.
2b, even if players don't intend to leave the MMO, they will still spend a lot of time checking out each of these new games. This will still cause issues in regards to population - and from experience those players will bitch to the developer that they have fallen too far behind while they were away. In my experience, no MMO player whines more than a PvP player that feels they have been left behind (a generalization, obviously, but accurate).
In regards to both parts of this second point, keep in mind that I have said many times that PvP focused MMO's lose population much faster than PvE focused.
3, you complain about games shifting to a more PvE focus at the expense of PvP. Ask yourself why they do that - but be honest. Do you think they do it to make a few more dollars when there are (seemingly) no other MMO's out there catering to the crowd they are trying to cater to, or are they doing it because they realized that the crowd they are trying to cater to isn't large enough (or stable enough) to keep the servers up?
Surely if there were no other MMO's focusing on the PvP market, if that PvP market was viable, they would stick with it as the only option.
Could Ashes be different? I mean, anything is possible - but we have literally no reason at all to think it would be if Intrepid didn't actively try to get PvE focused players in to the game. As such, we would have to assume it will just be more of the same.
There's many ways for players to enjoy the game but its endgame is more player driven opposed reaching some relative end point so you can collect everything on a plethora of alts across the theme park.
I think my concerns are alleviated about this issue for the most part. I think the lack of fast travel and other pursuits the game has to offer might keep this mostly from happening especially for the low levels who have yet to explore more of the game. Maybe the higher levels will rampage across world for server firsts, but good for them oh well. Hopefully there will be multiple branches simultaneously open when world events trigger that will help for server history to be written by multiple groups. Not too worried about that aspect. I was mostly just worried about what I saw in the New World video. Looks really boring. get 100 pll and just 1 shot it.....great.....
Clueless youtuber, trying to get some attention.
There is the problem. 0 understanding of this mmos structures.
Example- boss 1 respawns in 5 minutes, boss 2 in 3 minutes, boss 3 in 5 minutes, boss 4 in 6 minutes.= easy to just rotate the bosses and have minimal wait time as they form a train to farm them.
However if each boss sometimes spawns in 5 minutes and other times 30 minutes after dying this creates more difficulty in coordinating. As few will wait around for 2-3 hours to farm 3 or 4 bosses at random. Hopefully with lack of flying and the size of the map it would be harder to pull off being able to farm every boss doing a loop.
Yeah, I mostly think this is true. I'm open to not worrying about this issue any longer. I'm moving onto other stuff like catching up on all the dev diaries. Each time i hear more about the game its gets better and better. Thanks for all the input.
Most probably (and I hope) they will go for something like Lineage2 boss and epic boss respawn timers. Example: 12h + 24h random or 24h + 12h random or anything like this for bosses and for epic bosses from 2 or 3 days to 2/3 weeks or more + some random hours.