Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.
Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!
Dev Discussion - Respawn Times
How predictable do you like the spawn rate for general and rare mobs in open-world, dungeons, and raid settings?
Which games do you feel have done this well, and what did you feel was good about respawn times for mobs?
I recall playing the witcher and the ghouls would respawn very quickly until you took out their creature den or tossed a bomb down into their lair. Consider each NPC could have a lair or a den where they live or spawn from and then path away from the den. There would be multiple dens obviously but if the players need the creatue to stop respawning they could take out the creature den. This is what comes to mind for me.
Personally, i never liked the timer system, except in general repopulation. Let me explain.
If an area gets savagely over hunted, or a tribe of kobolds gets wiped out, they should stay wiped out for a considerable time. Enough time for you to appreciate your success, explore all the nooks and cranies, sleep in their beds, study the lives you just wiped out.
If there is a quest for the kobolds, than a minimum number of them should always be up, say 1-5%, and they should repop randomly to facilitate the associated quest. After that it should be RNG, which would represent self propagation. Say a 5-15% chance to spawn a new one for each one that is currently there, every 30-90 minutes. So the more of them there are, the faster they respawn.
For a non quest mob, same rules apply, except none stay up. If they are all wiped out, then one will have a chance to respawn every hour at 5-15% chance. So if you are hunting for materials, food, pelts, etc, your best bet would be to only kill small amounts, as they respawn, because there are alot of them to support it. Otherwise it could be a week or more before you see that mob again, if they all get wiped out. If you see some idiot over there just killing them all, well that is what pvp is for.
You could also implement a growth cycle. When a mob first spawns it is young, then say 3-6 minutes later it matures.
A rare kobold, say the named chieftan, should be triggered once a day. Maybe the kobolds have a chance to drop some vendor loot, piece of necklace or something. If you have 100 of them in your inventory, and enter the chiefs hut, the chieftan and his lieutenant guards spawn right outside trying to ambush you for revenge. Maybe there is some totems around that hint at the system of spawning, but overall, it needs to be discovered.
For world bosses, they should be guaranteed to spawn with in a timeframe, say once a month. Maybe for each day the chance to spawn goes up 5% They stay up until they are killed, and the timer starts over. It should be difficult to get a chance to see, let alone kill a world boss. Maybe every 4 hours a guild will send a runner out to see if any world bosses have respawned. If they have, then it will be a race to see which guilds, can get enough of their allied guilds together, fast enough, in some semblance of critical roles filled, that they might be successful. If you die, you get a debuff, that prevents you from trying again for 24 hours. If too many people attack, then the world boss despawns, and the timer starts over. Maybe those guilds will post pvpers at the entrance to kill all who approach?
Dungeons and raid, instance mobs, should stay dead, for as long as the instance is saved. Unless it is like an undead thing, or a third party is summoning an army, they should just stay dead. If the instance is about moving quickly, or be overwhelmed, then that will have to be balanced individually..
Just keep in mind, UO tried to implement a balanced ecosystem, and it was completely wiped out the first day.
You could implement a debuff system. If you kill a rabbit that is almost wiped out, you get a debuff that reduces your dps against rabbits by x percentage, depending on what percentage of them is left. The debuff would be a representative of how difficult it is to find that mob, since so few are left.
You could also implement eco-crimes... Logging, or gathering all of a plant, wiping out native species, could all put a bounty on your head.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Just keep in mind, UO tried to implement a balanced ecosystem, and it was completely wiped out the first day.
You could implement a debuff system. If you kill a rabbit that is almost wiped out, you get a debuff that reduces your dps against rabbits by x percentage, depending on what percentage of them is left. The debuff would be a representative of how difficult it is to find that mob, since so few are left.
You could also implement eco-crimes... Logging, or gathering all of a plant, wiping out native species, could all put a bounty on your head.
I would like to see such systems and also would like to think that with 25-30 years on perhaps the system could be designed with the lessons learned in mind to avoid repeating such mistakes.
Personally, i never liked the timer system, except in general repopulation. Let me explain.
If an area gets savagely over hunted, or a tribe of kobolds gets wiped out, they should stay wiped out for a considerable time. Enough time for you to appreciate your success, explore all the nooks and cranies, sleep in their beds, study the lives you just wiped out.
If there is a quest for the kobolds, than a minimum number of them should always be up, say 1-5%, and they should repop randomly to facilitate the associated quest. After that it should be RNG, which would represent self propagation. Say a 5-15% chance to spawn a new one for each one that is currently there, every 30-90 minutes. So the more of them there are, the faster they respawn.
For a non quest mob, same rules apply, except none stay up. If they are all wiped out, then one will have a chance to respawn every hour at 5-15% chance. So if you are hunting for materials, food, pelts, etc, your best bet would be to only kill small amounts, as they respawn, because there are alot of them to support it. Otherwise it could be a week or more before you see that mob again, if they all get wiped out. If you see some idiot over there just killing them all, well that is what pvp is for.
You could also implement a growth cycle. When a mob first spawns it is young, then say 3-6 minutes later it matures.
A rare kobold, say the named chieftan, should be triggered once a day. Maybe the kobolds have a chance to drop some vendor loot, piece of necklace or something. If you have 100 of them in your inventory, and enter the chiefs hut, the chieftan and his lieutenant guards spawn right outside trying to ambush you for revenge. Maybe there is some totems around that hint at the system of spawning, but overall, it needs to be discovered.
For world bosses, they should be guaranteed to spawn with in a timeframe, say once a month. Maybe for each day the chance to spawn goes up 5% They stay up until they are killed, and the timer starts over. It should be difficult to get a chance to see, let alone kill a world boss. Maybe every 4 hours a guild will send a runner out to see if any world bosses have respawned. If they have, then it will be a race to see which guilds, can get enough of their allied guilds together, fast enough, in some semblance of critical roles filled, that they might be successful. If you die, you get a debuff, that prevents you from trying again for 24 hours. If too many people attack, then the world boss despawns, and the timer starts over. Maybe those guilds will post pvpers at the entrance to kill all who approach?
Dungeons and raid, instance mobs, should stay dead, for as long as the instance is saved. Unless it is like an undead thing, or a third party is summoning an army, they should just stay dead. If the instance is about moving quickly, or be overwhelmed, then that will have to be balanced individually..
my 2 cents.
I appreciate your thoughts and ideas, they are remarkable if not a bit complex. Give people a balanced player versus environment reason to attack each other. Maybe they will think twice before wiping out an entire kobold village simply to level up their character's combat level. Encourage communication between players. Those who communicate instead of ignoring the other players should be encouraged. Vera's NPC's need to be relevant, thus giving a reason for players to engage in player vs player. I could see people that are accustomed to not engaging in player versus player liking this scenario. The stronger the role playing, the more reason there will be to become aggravated at another player (PvP); Also, since it will be open world mind you- your name will be remembered- so please think before you speak or take an action. If you don't know how to think then I suggest you find some one who can.
Just keep in mind, UO tried to implement a balanced ecosystem, and it was completely wiped out the first day.
You could implement a debuff system. If you kill a rabbit that is almost wiped out, you get a debuff that reduces your dps against rabbits by x percentage, depending on what percentage of them is left. The debuff would be a representative of how difficult it is to find that mob, since so few are left.
You could also implement eco-crimes... Logging, or gathering all of a plant, wiping out native species, could all put a bounty on your head.
A debuff is not the answer. There are rangers in the forest no? Imagine an elite ranger NPC attacking you simply because you attacked the last rabbit in the area from a specific den. Players will learn to not wipe out the entire forest and why risk it unless you actually need that rabbit.
I think playing with intentionality is important, so you should be able to make reliable plans through knowledge of the spawns, but that doesn't mean they have to be static, there could be randomness that changes things around while still maintaining a level of predictability.
I think for spawn timer it’s variable much like others have mentioned.
Spawning is a method of setting the urgency of an event. Pushing players to make the decision to push on to the next encounter rather than rest up and play it safe.
Spawning can also set the tone to cause the players to decide when situations are getting out of hand. If they can’t keep up, the rate can overcome them. That’s part of the risk, and when this approach is utilized then obviously you need rewards to match.
I also would like to see more variety in the spawns. Your activity and the activity of others in the zone can cause more reinforcements to appear in the zone via raids, wandering parties, and maybe allies of the mobs you are dispatching. This approach could be a method of triggering bosses to appear. More variety than having a bunch of players camp a zone for the boss, and this could also require player coordination to trigger the boss without all hell breaking lose in the zone. This could even trigger node events.
For example, if too many goblins are killed in a node, a goblin horde might arrive to besiege the node.
Could also apply to situations where killing too many predators in a zone leads to overpopulation of other beasts and vermin that could negatively effect the productivity in the zone, such as an infestation of rabbits that destroy crops.
How predictable do you like the spawn rate for general and rare mobs in open-world, dungeons, and raid settings?
Personally, a predictable spawn location is just a really bad system that needs to be fixed or reiterated, knowing exactly where ( for arguments sake ) a Green Drake spawns that has a % chance for something to drop, people will sit there, for hours trying to kill this thing. Its even worse if it is a quest for killing that particular mob. A spawn rate should be chunk based and has a chance to spawn in 1 of say 6 places for example ( spawns in these 6 chunks, then in these 6 chunks there's another 6 places each for them to spawn separately, sure its still a predictable spawn "location" but it doesn't allow for bots or grinders to just sit and guard an area.
Which games do you feel have done this well, and what did you feel was good about respawn times for mobs?
none come to mind, maybe old TERA back when it was simplified, they reacted to player quantity ( which I believe is the same for ashes ) and they would never spawn in the exact same spot, always a few metres away out of reach but still close enough to see.
both of these are pointed mainly towards like bigger mobs that take more than 2 abilities to kill, small mobs that can die quick should have set spawns so you don't have to run all over a map looking for that last 1 of 15 mobs.
Easy mobs should be between 3 to 5 min. This way players have time to kill most of the mobs in an area but cannot sit in 1 spot and farm the same group without wasting time waiting for them to respawn. It helps to encourage exploring are players travel though an area to keep farming.
Rare spawns should be between 15 and 30 min. This is to allow players than need the drops to not have to wait for a long time if they just happen to get there after someone else kills them but it's not so fast that someone can spend a few hours and flood the market with its drops.
Bosses should be between 6 and 10 hours. This makes it so the boss can be farmed by people with various schedules. Never had a worse time then starting to play a game and not being able to farm some daily bosses because they only spawned while I was at work or asleep.
Right now I am enjoying the respawn times of bosses in Diablo 4. They aren't always avaliable when I can play but I can get to them all at least once a week since the repawn timers are staggard.
How predictable do you like the spawn rate for general and rare mobs in open-world, dungeons, and raid settings?
- General mobs: I think a fixed exact potentially dynamic spawn rate is preferred. Fixed because if players end up farming an area for drops they will want to set up "rotations" which is basically packs 1-5 then back to 1. Dynamic so that if there are quest mobs and there are 10k players trying to kill 10 grasshoppers the server will help ease that congestion by enemies respawning super fast, think like 5-10 seconds. Default value should vary by difficulty but think something to the effect of spawn timer ~= 5-10x time to kill. So if a monster takes 10 seconds to kill it will respawn in approximately 50-100 seconds. Of course this will change as players kill faster but establish a baseline.
- Rare mobs: Personally I want these to be very unpredictable and very infrequently with high difficulty and high rewards. The goal in my mind would be you find a rare monster and you're excited. You start messaging people trying to get help asap and suddenly another person shows up, competition? Can they help? They should be possible to solo but very difficult. Rewards could maybe scale like 50% more per player, so less players more efficient but not feeling totally bad. For spawn timers maybe every 12h with an 8h variance. Could also have different "tiers" of rare monsters with 6h with 4h variance, 12/8, and 24/16 etc
Which games do you feel have done this well, and what did you feel was good about respawn times for mobs?
- In the general mob case I think BDO does a very good job. They not only have very predictable spawn times but they adjust areas spawn rate to buff/nerf how many players the area can support and approximate income. A good rare spawn example doesn't come to mind.
Respawn time for general mobs in the open world should be quik no more then a minute.
If you wana farm\ grind mobs that should be possible.
When it comes to open world dungions it should be slower but fast enough that the road behind you closes up with fresh spawns behind you. so any new group coming in behind you have to fight the same mobs.
Bosses in Open World dungions should respawn in a reasonable time as well but not with someone standing and camping it in the boss room.
For instanced dungions no respawn before you re-set the dungion.
I am happy with the suggestions that were made here with the spawn times in general but i wanted to address one thing.
I would really love if some spawn-times especially from rare mobs and world bosses would be restricted to player actions in the Environment.
So Spawning some rares would ONLY happen if enough people gather Ore in a specific Area
Or if the players gather 1000 Crabs with fishing on a Specific Coast line a Giant Sea Creature Crab Rare mob would spawn.
Spawn times for this Rare mobs or Rare Bosses would only trigger if the PLAYERBASE worked for it.
When rare and higher grade mobs has for example 10+- 2h time for respawn it's very hard to monopolize them and this is probably good for random players
In the other way if we know exact time for boss to spawn( 10:00 UTC for example) it's allow guild to gather raids and fight for this bosses
There is only one thing I would like to see when it comes to the spawning of either superrare mobs who might drop vastly desired ressources, or maybe even a "mount skin version" of themself like some in WoW do.
Or super rare treasure chests or the like.
And that is...
... to randomize the spawnlocations for as many desired articles as much as possible!
As . Much . As . possible.
There is nothing more disgusting to me in a beautiful videogame world than overcamped spawnlocations.
The element of exploration and discovery is a sacred one.
Videogames are more immersive when there is mystery and uncertainty.
Repetitiveness is what numbs the minds and destroys the sense of wonder in anyone.
I would like to see a super rare, mystical beast that you can tame maybe, or loot "as a mount version" out of it's own corpse after killing it, which can just pop up anywhere and roams certain locations or routes for a certain amount of time, before... I dunno... warping away elsewhere, like the mystical being it is.
Not something you necessarily need a group for to beat but just a being that can be ANYWHERE, which in turn makes every accessable meter of land, if it is a landwalker, always worth to check from time to time.
A monster/beast/"mount" that choses it's future master by the sheer randomness of it's appearance.
Nothing that can be forced by no-lifing, guiding or even bringing more manpower to the task ahead.
Of course it would also be nice to be able to get a mount that is part of a raidboss or something.
For example a Dragon calling its offspring for aid and there is a chance you can loot a Dragon-egg out of the Dragons corpse and then rise a hatchling yourself, which later becomes a mount.
My fav game had timers ranging from 1 hour to 1 week on over 100 different bosses, with the vast majority being in the 1-3hr range. They implemented a +/- timer system where it was something like:
80% the boss spawned on time
10% the boss spawned 10% early (eg: 10hr boss could spawn 9hr)
10% the boss spawned 10% late
Also found that important bosses with 16-20hr timers were good because it made it very difficult for teams to hold down the farm on a daily basis. Avoid 12/24 hr timers except for a few bosses, with pvp control of the timer in mind during game design.
There were like 3 bosses that were more than 3 days, one was a 1 week boss that was a level 20 boss but dropped a belt that was BIS (marginally) for half the classes until level 50.
There was an ancient ruin that had like 6 major early game bosses lvl 25-40ish that all had timers like 16,17,18,19 hrs etc so that it was hard to hold them all down all the time.
Time to level was significantly larger than modern MMOs so these timers actually mattered. Was also a full loot PVP MUD so you would have to redo bosses to get regeared after dying. Boss drop % played a big role. There was no individualized loot.
Respawn time for general mobs in the open world should be quik no more then a minute.
If you wana farm\ grind mobs that should be possible.
I'd say this depends on monster density and planned resting time between pulls. Monster respawn timers can be used to weed out low level/weak chars by spawning quicker than they can reasonably regain health/mana after a fight. Or it can allow low level characters to take on higher level areas if the respawn timer is slow.
Respawn timers can be crucial for your gaming experience. It can influence strategy, teamwork and gameplay flow. I believe it requires a delicate balance – one where the respawns are calibrated well enough for the player to not even notice the mechanics behind it.
Predictable vs Unpredictable - I've always liked predictable respawns, but some degree of unpredictability is warranted. For normal mobs, I enjoy shorter, predictable respawns, but in unpredictable locations (not in the same spot every time). Perhaps some measure of changing the pathing or spawn location is warranted here.
For more rare or boss mobs, I don't mind unpredictability at all. I enjoy some level of hunting/tracking, where as I quest in an area, I frequently return to the general location of a rare/boss mob to see if they are "up".
Longer Respawn Timers – Longer timers on bosses and rares can push players to coordinate their actions, encouraging teamwork and communication. This can introduce some complexity and reward good planning and execution. But how long is too long? For rares/bosses with valuable rewards, I think 12-24 hours is a good balance. After all, a rare should not be up too often, nor at the same times each day. There should be some aspect of “hunting” to these mobs. I’ve always loved seeing messages in global chat saying: “So-and-So Boss Up!” And seeing people flock to the location to get a hit on the boss for a chance at the loot!
Shorter Respawn Timers – Shorter timers on lesser mobs should be balanced based on availability of that particular mob in the general area, and the amount of players currently farming those mobs. There is nothing worse than having to wait around in an area with 10 other players for respawns in hopes of getting the ones you need for a quest objective. Fighting for mobs due to unbalanced respawns causes players to clash and fight for them. Some of this can be fun (PVP), but can get old if a casual player might not have the time to sit on a spawn for hours to complete their quest objectives.
Super Rare Mobs/World Bosses - Longer respawn times here (24-120 hours). Either a daily or weekly occurrence for these mobs is appropriate. As long as these mobs require significant coordination to defeat, and provide significantly better rewards. Weekly world bosses on a random long timer can be really fun and dynamic to have in games. The kind of bosses where you and your guildmates plan for, and answer the call when they pop - drop everything and go NOW! Super fun in games!
Tagging – I know this factor isn’t being considered with this Dev Discussion, but I thought it would be worth a mention here. I have never enjoyed having mobs get tagged by another player/group before you, then being locked, regardless of your DPS contribution. Meaning, just because I was a little late to the party, I am locked from receiving loot. This is a faction thing on many mobs in World of Warcraft and it gets annoying.
Respawn timers require a balance of challenge and accessibility. Even though longer timers can heighten the sense of accomplishment for some players, excessively long timers can alienate casual players. Striking the right balance allows everyone to have a shot.
Dynamic Objectives – For story arcs, or control objectives, I’d like to see the respawn timers be based on the progression of the story arc in the zone. I’m sure they will be, but as an example: If the bandits at Camp X and Y have not been dealt with, then Boss A should not be available. In short, predicates must be met for spawning of these particular boss objectives, which would not necessarily put them on a timer, but based on objectives reached by players. I know this already exists in the game, but once these objectives are reached, how often should that boss respawn for people that may have missed it? Perhaps a 2 – 4 hour window for a reset of the objective to allow for players to complete that objective, or a respawn based on the average player’s play session length?
Games that did it right: I really enjoyed the way Guild Wars 2 did their world boss respawns. They were on a predictable timer, but players could plan for it and be ready. I wouldn't have minded if they were a bit more unpredictable, however. As for Guild Wars 2's dynamic events, the balance was just right. The predicate mobs would be available at regular intervals for you to progress the event. Other games, such as World of Warcraft, have some mobs that respawn too quickly (making the loot drops not feel rare). In contrast, they also have some rare mobs that respawn much slower and have dismal drop rates. If this is intended, it is understandable. As the loot/achievements you receive with that low drop chance do indeed give you a sense of accomplishment when you get lucky. So yeah, such a delicate balance!
Overall, I hope my take makes some sense. I really appreciate these Dev Discussions. Intrepid is setting the standard for collecting and implementing player feedback! Thank you 😊
Comments
I recall playing the witcher and the ghouls would respawn very quickly until you took out their creature den or tossed a bomb down into their lair. Consider each NPC could have a lair or a den where they live or spawn from and then path away from the den. There would be multiple dens obviously but if the players need the creatue to stop respawning they could take out the creature den. This is what comes to mind for me.
If an area gets savagely over hunted, or a tribe of kobolds gets wiped out, they should stay wiped out for a considerable time. Enough time for you to appreciate your success, explore all the nooks and cranies, sleep in their beds, study the lives you just wiped out.
If there is a quest for the kobolds, than a minimum number of them should always be up, say 1-5%, and they should repop randomly to facilitate the associated quest. After that it should be RNG, which would represent self propagation. Say a 5-15% chance to spawn a new one for each one that is currently there, every 30-90 minutes. So the more of them there are, the faster they respawn.
For a non quest mob, same rules apply, except none stay up. If they are all wiped out, then one will have a chance to respawn every hour at 5-15% chance. So if you are hunting for materials, food, pelts, etc, your best bet would be to only kill small amounts, as they respawn, because there are alot of them to support it. Otherwise it could be a week or more before you see that mob again, if they all get wiped out. If you see some idiot over there just killing them all, well that is what pvp is for.
You could also implement a growth cycle. When a mob first spawns it is young, then say 3-6 minutes later it matures.
A rare kobold, say the named chieftan, should be triggered once a day. Maybe the kobolds have a chance to drop some vendor loot, piece of necklace or something. If you have 100 of them in your inventory, and enter the chiefs hut, the chieftan and his lieutenant guards spawn right outside trying to ambush you for revenge. Maybe there is some totems around that hint at the system of spawning, but overall, it needs to be discovered.
For world bosses, they should be guaranteed to spawn with in a timeframe, say once a month. Maybe for each day the chance to spawn goes up 5% They stay up until they are killed, and the timer starts over. It should be difficult to get a chance to see, let alone kill a world boss. Maybe every 4 hours a guild will send a runner out to see if any world bosses have respawned. If they have, then it will be a race to see which guilds, can get enough of their allied guilds together, fast enough, in some semblance of critical roles filled, that they might be successful. If you die, you get a debuff, that prevents you from trying again for 24 hours. If too many people attack, then the world boss despawns, and the timer starts over. Maybe those guilds will post pvpers at the entrance to kill all who approach?
Dungeons and raid, instance mobs, should stay dead, for as long as the instance is saved. Unless it is like an undead thing, or a third party is summoning an army, they should just stay dead. If the instance is about moving quickly, or be overwhelmed, then that will have to be balanced individually..
my 2 cents.
You could implement a debuff system. If you kill a rabbit that is almost wiped out, you get a debuff that reduces your dps against rabbits by x percentage, depending on what percentage of them is left. The debuff would be a representative of how difficult it is to find that mob, since so few are left.
You could also implement eco-crimes... Logging, or gathering all of a plant, wiping out native species, could all put a bounty on your head.
I would like to see such systems and also would like to think that with 25-30 years on perhaps the system could be designed with the lessons learned in mind to avoid repeating such mistakes.
I appreciate your thoughts and ideas, they are remarkable if not a bit complex. Give people a balanced player versus environment reason to attack each other. Maybe they will think twice before wiping out an entire kobold village simply to level up their character's combat level. Encourage communication between players. Those who communicate instead of ignoring the other players should be encouraged. Vera's NPC's need to be relevant, thus giving a reason for players to engage in player vs player. I could see people that are accustomed to not engaging in player versus player liking this scenario. The stronger the role playing, the more reason there will be to become aggravated at another player (PvP); Also, since it will be open world mind you- your name will be remembered- so please think before you speak or take an action. If you don't know how to think then I suggest you find some one who can.
A debuff is not the answer. There are rangers in the forest no? Imagine an elite ranger NPC attacking you simply because you attacked the last rabbit in the area from a specific den. Players will learn to not wipe out the entire forest and why risk it unless you actually need that rabbit.
Spawning is a method of setting the urgency of an event. Pushing players to make the decision to push on to the next encounter rather than rest up and play it safe.
Spawning can also set the tone to cause the players to decide when situations are getting out of hand. If they can’t keep up, the rate can overcome them. That’s part of the risk, and when this approach is utilized then obviously you need rewards to match.
I also would like to see more variety in the spawns. Your activity and the activity of others in the zone can cause more reinforcements to appear in the zone via raids, wandering parties, and maybe allies of the mobs you are dispatching. This approach could be a method of triggering bosses to appear. More variety than having a bunch of players camp a zone for the boss, and this could also require player coordination to trigger the boss without all hell breaking lose in the zone. This could even trigger node events.
For example, if too many goblins are killed in a node, a goblin horde might arrive to besiege the node.
Could also apply to situations where killing too many predators in a zone leads to overpopulation of other beasts and vermin that could negatively effect the productivity in the zone, such as an infestation of rabbits that destroy crops.
Personally, a predictable spawn location is just a really bad system that needs to be fixed or reiterated, knowing exactly where ( for arguments sake ) a Green Drake spawns that has a % chance for something to drop, people will sit there, for hours trying to kill this thing. Its even worse if it is a quest for killing that particular mob. A spawn rate should be chunk based and has a chance to spawn in 1 of say 6 places for example ( spawns in these 6 chunks, then in these 6 chunks there's another 6 places each for them to spawn separately, sure its still a predictable spawn "location" but it doesn't allow for bots or grinders to just sit and guard an area.
Which games do you feel have done this well, and what did you feel was good about respawn times for mobs?
none come to mind, maybe old TERA back when it was simplified, they reacted to player quantity ( which I believe is the same for ashes ) and they would never spawn in the exact same spot, always a few metres away out of reach but still close enough to see.
both of these are pointed mainly towards like bigger mobs that take more than 2 abilities to kill, small mobs that can die quick should have set spawns so you don't have to run all over a map looking for that last 1 of 15 mobs.
Rare spawns should be between 15 and 30 min. This is to allow players than need the drops to not have to wait for a long time if they just happen to get there after someone else kills them but it's not so fast that someone can spend a few hours and flood the market with its drops.
Bosses should be between 6 and 10 hours. This makes it so the boss can be farmed by people with various schedules. Never had a worse time then starting to play a game and not being able to farm some daily bosses because they only spawned while I was at work or asleep.
Right now I am enjoying the respawn times of bosses in Diablo 4. They aren't always avaliable when I can play but I can get to them all at least once a week since the repawn timers are staggard.
- General mobs: I think a fixed exact potentially dynamic spawn rate is preferred. Fixed because if players end up farming an area for drops they will want to set up "rotations" which is basically packs 1-5 then back to 1. Dynamic so that if there are quest mobs and there are 10k players trying to kill 10 grasshoppers the server will help ease that congestion by enemies respawning super fast, think like 5-10 seconds. Default value should vary by difficulty but think something to the effect of spawn timer ~= 5-10x time to kill. So if a monster takes 10 seconds to kill it will respawn in approximately 50-100 seconds. Of course this will change as players kill faster but establish a baseline.
- Rare mobs: Personally I want these to be very unpredictable and very infrequently with high difficulty and high rewards. The goal in my mind would be you find a rare monster and you're excited. You start messaging people trying to get help asap and suddenly another person shows up, competition? Can they help? They should be possible to solo but very difficult. Rewards could maybe scale like 50% more per player, so less players more efficient but not feeling totally bad. For spawn timers maybe every 12h with an 8h variance. Could also have different "tiers" of rare monsters with 6h with 4h variance, 12/8, and 24/16 etc
Which games do you feel have done this well, and what did you feel was good about respawn times for mobs?
- In the general mob case I think BDO does a very good job. They not only have very predictable spawn times but they adjust areas spawn rate to buff/nerf how many players the area can support and approximate income. A good rare spawn example doesn't come to mind.
If you wana farm\ grind mobs that should be possible.
When it comes to open world dungions it should be slower but fast enough that the road behind you closes up with fresh spawns behind you. so any new group coming in behind you have to fight the same mobs.
Bosses in Open World dungions should respawn in a reasonable time as well but not with someone standing and camping it in the boss room.
For instanced dungions no respawn before you re-set the dungion.
I would really love if some spawn-times especially from rare mobs and world bosses would be restricted to player actions in the Environment.
So Spawning some rares would ONLY happen if enough people gather Ore in a specific Area
Or if the players gather 1000 Crabs with fishing on a Specific Coast line a Giant Sea Creature Crab Rare mob would spawn.
Spawn times for this Rare mobs or Rare Bosses would only trigger if the PLAYERBASE worked for it.
In the other way if we know exact time for boss to spawn( 10:00 UTC for example) it's allow guild to gather raids and fight for this bosses
I think both mechanics should exist in game
Or super rare treasure chests or the like.
And that is...
... to randomize the spawnlocations for as many desired articles as much as possible!
As . Much . As . possible.
There is nothing more disgusting to me in a beautiful videogame world than overcamped spawnlocations.
The element of exploration and discovery is a sacred one.
Videogames are more immersive when there is mystery and uncertainty.
Repetitiveness is what numbs the minds and destroys the sense of wonder in anyone.
I would like to see a super rare, mystical beast that you can tame maybe, or loot "as a mount version" out of it's own corpse after killing it, which can just pop up anywhere and roams certain locations or routes for a certain amount of time, before... I dunno... warping away elsewhere, like the mystical being it is.
Not something you necessarily need a group for to beat but just a being that can be ANYWHERE, which in turn makes every accessable meter of land, if it is a landwalker, always worth to check from time to time.
A monster/beast/"mount" that choses it's future master by the sheer randomness of it's appearance.
Nothing that can be forced by no-lifing, guiding or even bringing more manpower to the task ahead.
Of course it would also be nice to be able to get a mount that is part of a raidboss or something.
For example a Dragon calling its offspring for aid and there is a chance you can loot a Dragon-egg out of the Dragons corpse and then rise a hatchling yourself, which later becomes a mount.
Epic stuff like that.
80% the boss spawned on time
10% the boss spawned 10% early (eg: 10hr boss could spawn 9hr)
10% the boss spawned 10% late
Also found that important bosses with 16-20hr timers were good because it made it very difficult for teams to hold down the farm on a daily basis. Avoid 12/24 hr timers except for a few bosses, with pvp control of the timer in mind during game design.
There were like 3 bosses that were more than 3 days, one was a 1 week boss that was a level 20 boss but dropped a belt that was BIS (marginally) for half the classes until level 50.
There was an ancient ruin that had like 6 major early game bosses lvl 25-40ish that all had timers like 16,17,18,19 hrs etc so that it was hard to hold them all down all the time.
Time to level was significantly larger than modern MMOs so these timers actually mattered. Was also a full loot PVP MUD so you would have to redo bosses to get regeared after dying. Boss drop % played a big role. There was no individualized loot.
I'd say this depends on monster density and planned resting time between pulls. Monster respawn timers can be used to weed out low level/weak chars by spawning quicker than they can reasonably regain health/mana after a fight. Or it can allow low level characters to take on higher level areas if the respawn timer is slow.
Predictable vs Unpredictable - I've always liked predictable respawns, but some degree of unpredictability is warranted. For normal mobs, I enjoy shorter, predictable respawns, but in unpredictable locations (not in the same spot every time). Perhaps some measure of changing the pathing or spawn location is warranted here.
For more rare or boss mobs, I don't mind unpredictability at all. I enjoy some level of hunting/tracking, where as I quest in an area, I frequently return to the general location of a rare/boss mob to see if they are "up".
Longer Respawn Timers – Longer timers on bosses and rares can push players to coordinate their actions, encouraging teamwork and communication. This can introduce some complexity and reward good planning and execution. But how long is too long? For rares/bosses with valuable rewards, I think 12-24 hours is a good balance. After all, a rare should not be up too often, nor at the same times each day. There should be some aspect of “hunting” to these mobs. I’ve always loved seeing messages in global chat saying: “So-and-So Boss Up!” And seeing people flock to the location to get a hit on the boss for a chance at the loot!
Shorter Respawn Timers – Shorter timers on lesser mobs should be balanced based on availability of that particular mob in the general area, and the amount of players currently farming those mobs. There is nothing worse than having to wait around in an area with 10 other players for respawns in hopes of getting the ones you need for a quest objective. Fighting for mobs due to unbalanced respawns causes players to clash and fight for them. Some of this can be fun (PVP), but can get old if a casual player might not have the time to sit on a spawn for hours to complete their quest objectives.
Super Rare Mobs/World Bosses - Longer respawn times here (24-120 hours). Either a daily or weekly occurrence for these mobs is appropriate. As long as these mobs require significant coordination to defeat, and provide significantly better rewards. Weekly world bosses on a random long timer can be really fun and dynamic to have in games. The kind of bosses where you and your guildmates plan for, and answer the call when they pop - drop everything and go NOW! Super fun in games!
Tagging – I know this factor isn’t being considered with this Dev Discussion, but I thought it would be worth a mention here. I have never enjoyed having mobs get tagged by another player/group before you, then being locked, regardless of your DPS contribution. Meaning, just because I was a little late to the party, I am locked from receiving loot. This is a faction thing on many mobs in World of Warcraft and it gets annoying.
Respawn timers require a balance of challenge and accessibility. Even though longer timers can heighten the sense of accomplishment for some players, excessively long timers can alienate casual players. Striking the right balance allows everyone to have a shot.
Dynamic Objectives – For story arcs, or control objectives, I’d like to see the respawn timers be based on the progression of the story arc in the zone. I’m sure they will be, but as an example: If the bandits at Camp X and Y have not been dealt with, then Boss A should not be available. In short, predicates must be met for spawning of these particular boss objectives, which would not necessarily put them on a timer, but based on objectives reached by players. I know this already exists in the game, but once these objectives are reached, how often should that boss respawn for people that may have missed it? Perhaps a 2 – 4 hour window for a reset of the objective to allow for players to complete that objective, or a respawn based on the average player’s play session length?
Games that did it right: I really enjoyed the way Guild Wars 2 did their world boss respawns. They were on a predictable timer, but players could plan for it and be ready. I wouldn't have minded if they were a bit more unpredictable, however. As for Guild Wars 2's dynamic events, the balance was just right. The predicate mobs would be available at regular intervals for you to progress the event. Other games, such as World of Warcraft, have some mobs that respawn too quickly (making the loot drops not feel rare). In contrast, they also have some rare mobs that respawn much slower and have dismal drop rates. If this is intended, it is understandable. As the loot/achievements you receive with that low drop chance do indeed give you a sense of accomplishment when you get lucky. So yeah, such a delicate balance!
Overall, I hope my take makes some sense. I really appreciate these Dev Discussions. Intrepid is setting the standard for collecting and implementing player feedback! Thank you 😊
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