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VFX Flashy vs usefull?
Saneroki
Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
Hello everyone,
I find myself increasingly frustrated by the visual effects (VFX) in AoC combat when watching videos and class previews. Specifically, I'm bothered by the flashiness and brightness of the skills, and
I sincerely hope for an option that provides simpler skill effects. My concerns extend beyond just performance issues; I believe reducing visual clutter is crucial for better conveying buffs, debuffs, AoEs, and preventing discomfort, seizures, or fatigue induced by intense flashes.
Allow me to elaborate on my two main concerns:
Visual Irritation and Opacity Overload:
The rapid, bright flashes, are not only annoying but can be visually overwhelming and take focus away from immersive and important parts of the combat. The accumulation of multiple skill effects results in opacity saturation on the target, hindering visibility. I propose a system where all skill effects combined are limited to a fixed percentage of opacity, preventing an overlap that obstructs the view and reduces bright flashes. Additionally, important effects such as buffs/debuffs and AoEs can have a higher minimum and maximum opacity for better visibility.
Brightness Hindering Enemy Observation:
The excessive brightness of skill effects can obscure the view of enemies, making it challenging to react and strategize effectively. What is the enemy doing? When do I need to block? Do I need to cleanse a debuff? Does the enemy have a buff or a shield up? All hidden behind huge hammers, bright weapon trails, explosions etc. To address this, a solution is needed to allow players to maintain focus on enemies amidst the visual spectacle without relying on the HUD alone. Simplifying combat VFX would involve minimizing flashiness, maintaining low opacity, and ensuring minimalistic visuals. This way, even in scenarios where multiple players unleash the same skill simultaneously, the screen remains clear, and essential effects stand out.
In considering solutions, I propose the following:
1. Standard MMO Approach:
Emphasize reliance on the HUD/UI for critical information. However, this often leads to players fixating solely on health, buff, and debuff bars, neglecting the immersive combat experience. Not recommended but looks like this is the road AoC is heading at the moment.
2. Simplified Combat VFX Option:
Introduce an option for simplified combat VFX. This setting would prioritize utility over flashiness, ensuring minimal visual disruption and aiding performance, especially in larger battles or raids. The simplicity could be integrated into customizable UI profiles for different scenarios, allowing players to toggle between full VFX for solo and 1v1 encounters and simplified VFX for sieges, raids, and pushing difficult content.
I understand the appeal of visually impactful combat, especially in one-on-one scenarios, but I advocate for the inclusion of an option that allows players to experience combat in a more streamlined and practical manner, particularly in group settings or large-scale battles.
Best regards
I find myself increasingly frustrated by the visual effects (VFX) in AoC combat when watching videos and class previews. Specifically, I'm bothered by the flashiness and brightness of the skills, and
I sincerely hope for an option that provides simpler skill effects. My concerns extend beyond just performance issues; I believe reducing visual clutter is crucial for better conveying buffs, debuffs, AoEs, and preventing discomfort, seizures, or fatigue induced by intense flashes.
Allow me to elaborate on my two main concerns:
Visual Irritation and Opacity Overload:
The rapid, bright flashes, are not only annoying but can be visually overwhelming and take focus away from immersive and important parts of the combat. The accumulation of multiple skill effects results in opacity saturation on the target, hindering visibility. I propose a system where all skill effects combined are limited to a fixed percentage of opacity, preventing an overlap that obstructs the view and reduces bright flashes. Additionally, important effects such as buffs/debuffs and AoEs can have a higher minimum and maximum opacity for better visibility.
Brightness Hindering Enemy Observation:
The excessive brightness of skill effects can obscure the view of enemies, making it challenging to react and strategize effectively. What is the enemy doing? When do I need to block? Do I need to cleanse a debuff? Does the enemy have a buff or a shield up? All hidden behind huge hammers, bright weapon trails, explosions etc. To address this, a solution is needed to allow players to maintain focus on enemies amidst the visual spectacle without relying on the HUD alone. Simplifying combat VFX would involve minimizing flashiness, maintaining low opacity, and ensuring minimalistic visuals. This way, even in scenarios where multiple players unleash the same skill simultaneously, the screen remains clear, and essential effects stand out.
In considering solutions, I propose the following:
1. Standard MMO Approach:
Emphasize reliance on the HUD/UI for critical information. However, this often leads to players fixating solely on health, buff, and debuff bars, neglecting the immersive combat experience. Not recommended but looks like this is the road AoC is heading at the moment.
2. Simplified Combat VFX Option:
Introduce an option for simplified combat VFX. This setting would prioritize utility over flashiness, ensuring minimal visual disruption and aiding performance, especially in larger battles or raids. The simplicity could be integrated into customizable UI profiles for different scenarios, allowing players to toggle between full VFX for solo and 1v1 encounters and simplified VFX for sieges, raids, and pushing difficult content.
I understand the appeal of visually impactful combat, especially in one-on-one scenarios, but I advocate for the inclusion of an option that allows players to experience combat in a more streamlined and practical manner, particularly in group settings or large-scale battles.
Best regards
1
Comments
So Steven wants flashy VFX seemingly. Plus there'll be a VFX slider anyway where you can reduce the VFX so.
Ye, but I think the vfx slider will just be a performance thing but tries to keep its flashiness and coverage. Just with simpler particle effects. For example if you reduce the vfx or mostly called Particles then the effects have less performance cost but are still making the screen opaque.
Meaning the problem still remains: Playing the hud to know whats going on.
Agree in general. But not with the title of the topic. I think effects should be flashy AND useful at the same time.
But the effects have to allow precise recognition of the buffs and skills used. I'm against all forms of VHX that offer no added value other than visual pollution.
For example, it's important to see when your opponent casts an immunity or armor spell, but it's strictly useless to have a visual effect when that same opponent draws his weapon, as it doesn't provide any strategic information.
In short, like everything else, they need to find the right balance.
AoC looks better and better every stream: the world, the characters, the animations, the rendering distance.
The over-the-top explosion VFX take away so much from all of these things.
It's not even a matter of polish, this is an obvious flaw that could be fixed just by changing the intensity and spread of the light on these effects. I'm not asking for a redesign of the skills, on a base level they look good. (Although it makes me wonder why a basic attack has a bright yellow/orange flare attached to it.. that's a "bit" out of place.)
Giving us sliders is not an excuse. Just look at those 2 pictures above, is that how skills will look to every single player who refuses to mess around in the settings? Giving us a good default is crucial. Imagine a streamer with tens of thousand of viewers opening the game for the first time and every time he attacks, it looks like a nuclear explosion. Yeah.. they might change it down the line if they care enough, but why not give them the GOOD settings by default? What impression does that make of the game to the viewers?
Although I'm glad that this is one of my main concerns with the game, as it just shows that it's generally really well designed and executed (IMO), but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.
Wars are about making decisions with limited information, either trusting experience or your gut. That's why leaders are important, because they're able to infer the possible behavior of an enemy.
This is the same issue we have with combat trackers: people want perfect and absolute information about every single encounter.
You are saying you understand but yet you are showing you don't understand. They have a lot of things to work on and finish on their schedule, what you are seeing is development and not a shipped product. They are going to go back and forth adjusting every single effect and non finished effect and start doing perfect polishing on all the effects.
You aren't playing it so I don't see any reason for you to complain "its been 2 years" it has 0 effect on you. I'm sure they already do more polishing than normal to begin with since they showcase it, compared to any other actual development that would have things look even more rough. Ie like a box for an effect as placeholder that looks worse or something else.
It helps stimulate simple minds similar to slot machines and fairs/carnivals with the colours etc.
If the combat is bad but the vfx's are flashy... the combat is still bad.
I imagine you'll be able to reduce some of it, but if it's a slider to the point where you can essentially remove it, that would be creating a split in how the game is supposed to look and be played vs advantages through choices.
They have toned some down based on player feedback.
For example this is a thread i made way back:
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/55155/combat-and-visuals-and-some-other-stuff#latest
For me it feels like the designers are still a bit off when it comes to aligning the system’s requirements with the creative vision.
Its getting better for sure, but i feel it‘ll become evident during testing phases and a lot of stuff will have to be adjusted.
That is the point of alpha a incomplete cake is going to be very evident things will need to be adjusted, even more so with no final polish. No surprises there.
It will be a small cake, then a bigger cake and then at release a half eaten cake.
(because that angry youtuber who talks a lot will eat it)
As long as this guy isn't in charge of their meetings we are good (first part of video)
But what looks good when you are solo, doesn't mean it looks good in a 40-man raid or a PVP massacre.
The comment about war should be messy and difficult to comprehend. Yeah I agree to some extent but there is chaos in ppl running around and the boss does weird things and you don't know what is the best decision at this moment ... and just playing blind focusing on the HUD. Big difference.
The pictures Tyrol put up are a perfect example. Tell me based on those pictures: Is the enemy heavily attacking that you need to block? What buffs / debuffs are up? How many enemies are there / did someone pull more?
And why does a fighter need a 20-meter huge glowing Ghost hammer to be badass? And how is a sloooooowly moving lightning globe cool? Lighting should be fast and flashy. Not a slow-motion snooze. If you want something slow-moving then make it Icespikes that slowly crawl over the terrain not a floating balloon.
About the comment that this is a pre-alpha build. I completely agree, but with no feedback not much will change and they just fix bugs and add content. With feedback, they polish. So holding back feedback just because it's an alpha and then crying when the game releases is not how I would like to handle things. The fact that they have such a great open development shows that they crave feedback to make the best game possible already at launch and not 2 years after. It's an MMO live service. It will always be WIP.
I love AoC. They have an amazing vision for the game and I look forward to playing Alpha-2. I have been backing up this game since the first Kickstarter and I don't regret it so far. They are showing great things and they take their time to make it better all the time. I care, that's why I give feedback.
Based on the posts here it seems I am not the only one who thinks the effects are too obscuring.
Looking more at the UI ruins emersion and that is never good.
As for chaos in battle you don't need tons of flashy lights to make it chaotic. if you have 16 people fighting running around and doing stuff that is chaotic enough for a lot of people, now toss in some sort of battle between zergs and no one will know what is really going on other then fighting.
My VFX
Party/Raid VFX
Other ally/neutral VFX
Player enemy VFX
NPC enemy VFX
Then these could possibly be split into self/target. In boss fights in particular, the boss is overloaded with effects, and that needs to be toned down a lot. But when looking at the other players, seeing what they are doing (or being done to them) is helpful.