What is the Fishing/Hunting impact on Land Management?

Sathrago

I ask this because these are not as conventionally engaged with as herbalism. woodcutting, and mining. Maybe fishing will be a bit easier to have as part of this system, but im not sure what it would look like in either case. Especially hunting, because this most likely overlaps with mobs that are just killed for exp normally.

Raven016

The Land management is in the game with a purpose.
What the purpose is I cannot say for sure.
- maybe is just to force players to explore and move to new locations, because change and variation is healthy.
- or maybe is there to create scarcity which leads to conflict between players.
In this 2nd case, if the rule would not apply to fishing and hunting then it would be a loophole in the original intention. Let's see how much PvP Steven wants to enforce onto players. I have the feeling he is getting more tolerant as he ages and gets more employees (who don't like scarcity). Until the game releases, he might have a different stance than 7 years ago.

Sathrago

Raven016 wrote: »

The Land management is in the game with a purpose.
What the purpose is I cannot say for sure.
- maybe is just to force players to explore and move to new locations, because change and variation is healthy.
- or maybe is there to create scarcity which leads to conflict between players.
In this 2nd case, if the rule would not apply to fishing and hunting then it would be a loophole in the original intention. Let's see how much PvP Steven wants to enforce onto players. I have the feeling he is getting more tolerant as he ages and gets more employees (who don't like scarcity). Until the game releases, he might have a different stance than 7 years ago.

So thats the interesting thing, would it not stand to reason that fishing in the untamed oceans will be unlimited and without land management?

Then you have hunting, which is capturing/killing animals that populate all of the zones. This will most likely also be unlimited in the oceans. Perhaps they will go for "Hidden Nodes" that are sections of these areas with their own secret land management to deal with?

I get that pvp will be present at all times here with no repercussions (outside of social ones) but I don't think that makes up for this difference. I guess I just mean that without a real understanding of how these will appear in the world it becomes hard to guess how it can be managed.

Just to try for a moment, maybe fishing will be usable anywhere but there is a stock of fish that can be depleted and trigger events tied to the body of water they are in (i.e. river, lake, pond, and the hidden nodes for oceans.). Then you have fishing pools that are separate from this, and kind of like "rare" hotspots you can go to for specific fish/higher chance at rare fish.

Then you have the hunting side, where tracking is used to hunt down rare spawned creatures that have the affinity to be tamed, you have your normal spawns that can just be found normally, and you have bait/trapping that you can set up to lure in specific types of elusive/powerful creatures to subjugate/kill. You could probably also mix in monster nests that just have the babies/eggs very rarely.

So in both cases you would have 2 different meters that would be managed. The general population of fish/mobs and the rarity of the special things such as fishing pools, monster nests, and rare monsters. I dont know exactly how these would balance around each other, but after thinking on it, this might be how they would do it?

Kilion

I think it might have been in the season showcase or the gathering preview but it was definitely mentioned that gathering a lot of materials in an area will impact local fauna and flora.

And I can think of a few ways they can actually accomplish that, especially since the dynamic event system already provides the technological basis to track these kinds of activities and act upon them.

Examples:

• Overfishing & -hunting an area: If the kills per hour of prey animals remains high for a period of time in an area, hunting animals become "starved" which makes their behavior pattern towards players hostile and could boost their fighting power in the beginning and gradually drain it the longer a fight lasts.
• Taking a lot of minerals/stones from an area could cause goblins or other humanoid creatures in the area who like shiny stuff or need the resources themselves to send out hunting parties to "secure their turf". Equally in an area with elementals the rock elementals might become angry because iron deposits are what new elementals are born from or something of that sort
• Overfishing in general: Taking too many fish out of the water could cause gatherable plants in rivers / lakes to temporarily increase. These however HAVE to be taken out of or they basically die off because they overgrow otherwise (in nature this would be due to too much oxygen absorbtion). The water basically becomes uninhabitable for plants and the remaining fish alike. If that stage is reached, very strong necrotic slimes made up of dead fish and plants could spawn on the banks of the river / lake in search of more to devour. They are hostile to anything and pretty strong but they would also contain some nice loot. Since all the dead material would leave the waters that way after some time normal fish and plants could repopoulate the waters previously affected.

These are just examples of what I could imagine to be ways to react to over straining the resources.

Enigmatic Sage

quick question,

when we say fishing are talking about a generalisation or something specific like deep sea fishing, coastal fishing, fish farming on freehold?

Sathrago

Kilion wrote: »

I think it might have been in the season showcase or the gathering preview but it was definitely mentioned that gathering a lot of materials in an area will impact local fauna and flora.

And I can think of a few ways they can actually accomplish that, especially since the dynamic event system already provides the technological basis to track these kinds of activities and act upon them.

Examples:

• Overfishing & -hunting an area: If the kills per hour of prey animals remains high for a period of time in an area, hunting animals become "starved" which makes their behavior pattern towards players hostile and could boost their fighting power in the beginning and gradually drain it the longer a fight lasts.
• Taking a lot of minerals/stones from an area could cause goblins or other humanoid creatures in the area who like shiny stuff or need the resources themselves to send out hunting parties to "secure their turf". Equally in an area with elementals the rock elementals might become angry because iron deposits are what new elementals are born from or something of that sort
• Overfishing in general: Taking too many fish out of the water could cause gatherable plants in rivers / lakes to temporarily increase. These however HAVE to be taken out of or they basically die off because they overgrow otherwise (in nature this would be due to too much oxygen absorbtion). The water basically becomes uninhabitable for plants and the remaining fish alike. If that stage is reached, very strong necrotic slimes made up of dead fish and plants could spawn on the banks of the river / lake in search of more to devour. They are hostile to anything and pretty strong but they would also contain some nice loot. Since all the dead material would leave the waters that way after some time normal fish and plants could repopoulate the waters previously affected.

These are just examples of what I could imagine to be ways to react to over straining the resources.

very cool. Feels like a "cycle" of things, and this would make sense for them to do. good stuff

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

quick question,

when we say fishing are talking about a generalisation or something specific like deep sea fishing, coastal fishing, fish farming on freehold?

In general is what I meant, and I doubt farming will have any impact on the land management.

Enigmatic Sage

@Sathrago ok ty for clarifying.

Other than what @Kilion mentioned which we have seen in other games to various degrees with ecosystem stability and risks like spawns..

Deep sea fishing could be interesting with schools of fish spawning, chasing them, trying to net/trap and harpoon etc. Bring a crew

Coastal fishing I imagine could be interesting as a lot of sea life lives near the shore. Probably lower tier yields but more of an impact on food chains.

Had this discussion in another thread.. Hunting is the act of tracking to capture, not always kill. The trophy in terms could be for livestock, breeding, butchering etc. Various methods of special tracking, baiting and overall quality/tier/yield.

I imagine if caravans flooding nodes with resources creates a devaluation based on supply and demand I imagine ecosystem could just as well provide a supply and demand penalty as well.

The only risk is destabilisation of certain core systems by doing this.

Raven016

Sathrago wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

The Land management is in the game with a purpose.
What the purpose is I cannot say for sure.
- maybe is just to force players to explore and move to new locations, because change and variation is healthy.
- or maybe is there to create scarcity which leads to conflict between players.
In this 2nd case, if the rule would not apply to fishing and hunting then it would be a loophole in the original intention. Let's see how much PvP Steven wants to enforce onto players. I have the feeling he is getting more tolerant as he ages and gets more employees (who don't like scarcity). Until the game releases, he might have a different stance than 7 years ago.

So thats the interesting thing, would it not stand to reason that fishing in the untamed oceans will be unlimited and without land management?

It will be ocean management
I don't know what will happen in the ocean. Will it still be under the influence of a metropolis?
The statement that the 5 metros ZOIs cover 100% of the map without any gaps came in 2018 before the ocean size was increased and transformed into a full PvP area.
The rate at which resources respawn can increase or decrease...

Defeating certain world bosses or mobs can positively impact the respawn rates of resources and animals in their vicinity.[4]

... but closer to nodes, mayors and their governments will be able to influence player behavior

and maybe apprehending or removing poachers that are over hunting a certain species could be helpful to the health of the land. Maybe the mayor puts out a request for players to try and get rid of invasive species that are plants- maybe they're overgrowing weed and it's stopping other valuable plants from growing.[3] – Kory Rice

Enigmatic Sage

Be interesting if seasons affected the sea biomes in terms of storms. I do not recall if they are doing a north and south hemisphere difference with seasons or not.

Stormier seas could be interesting especially with the sailing dynamic.

@Raven016 I imagine over fishing the sea could upset some larger predators or perhaps even the gods

I imagine the ZOI would affect the coastal fishing opposed to deep sea as having the two system synergise could put a stability issue. Though I suppose that is how food chains work for ecosystems