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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Player Respawn Times
kalkaz
Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
I saw that a current Dev Discussion is about respawn times for mobs. It got me curious about different kinds of respawn time for players. I’d love to see everyone’s thoughts and opinions about a variety of different respawn times and what implication the might have on the game and players!
For me, I’ve played a small number of MMORPG’s. In my own experience they’ve all had relatively quick if not instantaneous respawn at one location or another. I’ve never had an issue with this or gave it much thought. Recently I’ve read different manwha / manga / or light novels that had game like systems in them. They were more of a stereotypical eastern game design. Out of all the “unique” and “fantasy” like aspects in the stories, they all had their own unique take on player deaths. Deleveling was common place here and I believe the Intrepid team has already talked about that and determined that won’t be in the game, but there will be ‘Experience Debt’. Another aspect they had was extreme respawn times, by extreme I mean some as long as two days.
Why I don’t like that is viable or fun, the idea of having respawn taking a few hours is interesting and I’d love to talk about it and learn the opinion of others!
Obviously as to not promote “just playing your alt”, I think exploring a way to disable the account or a ‘cool down’ of some sort would apply to this theoretical idea. I wouldn’t stop someone from having multiple accounts, but I wouldn’t count on that in the game design.
For Ashes, this could be very detrimental to Non-combatant players. By that I imagine in the event of a caravan getting attacked, there wouldn’t be a way to immediately run back and try to reclaim / salvage / save you belongings. These among many other things could pose problems.
However, the reason I find the longer respawn times interesting is to give a stronger sense of being alive in the game. By making death more impactful I’d hope experiencing the game becomes more impactful as well. Just as people love hardcore wow for a similar reason (just a guess I don’t have first hand experience). I believe it could also give way to more in depth preparation to exploring new area, planning strategies for new raids and their bosses, giving a sense of danger around red players and making relying on other players more common. In theory this could also make it more difficult for solo players to thrive, but imagine this could also show the skill level of the ‘solo-pioneer’.
That enough on my soap box. I hope this idea is fun to imagine and I appreciate everyone’s input!
For me, I’ve played a small number of MMORPG’s. In my own experience they’ve all had relatively quick if not instantaneous respawn at one location or another. I’ve never had an issue with this or gave it much thought. Recently I’ve read different manwha / manga / or light novels that had game like systems in them. They were more of a stereotypical eastern game design. Out of all the “unique” and “fantasy” like aspects in the stories, they all had their own unique take on player deaths. Deleveling was common place here and I believe the Intrepid team has already talked about that and determined that won’t be in the game, but there will be ‘Experience Debt’. Another aspect they had was extreme respawn times, by extreme I mean some as long as two days.
Why I don’t like that is viable or fun, the idea of having respawn taking a few hours is interesting and I’d love to talk about it and learn the opinion of others!
Obviously as to not promote “just playing your alt”, I think exploring a way to disable the account or a ‘cool down’ of some sort would apply to this theoretical idea. I wouldn’t stop someone from having multiple accounts, but I wouldn’t count on that in the game design.
For Ashes, this could be very detrimental to Non-combatant players. By that I imagine in the event of a caravan getting attacked, there wouldn’t be a way to immediately run back and try to reclaim / salvage / save you belongings. These among many other things could pose problems.
However, the reason I find the longer respawn times interesting is to give a stronger sense of being alive in the game. By making death more impactful I’d hope experiencing the game becomes more impactful as well. Just as people love hardcore wow for a similar reason (just a guess I don’t have first hand experience). I believe it could also give way to more in depth preparation to exploring new area, planning strategies for new raids and their bosses, giving a sense of danger around red players and making relying on other players more common. In theory this could also make it more difficult for solo players to thrive, but imagine this could also show the skill level of the ‘solo-pioneer’.
That enough on my soap box. I hope this idea is fun to imagine and I appreciate everyone’s input!
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Comments
Losing the character completely in a hardcore challenge is a whole different thing because you know that you only have one life so you play with that in mind. Having a respawn that literally removes gameplay time from a PAID SUBSCRIPTION is a very very bad idea.
And as you yourself mentioned - this is very p2w, because people who don't care about money can have enough character to never stop playing even if they die every damn minute. Good for Intrepid's pockets - bad for everyone else.
I see your point. I think the idea of this is interesting, but the actual implementation is unrealistic for western games or any games for that matter. (Referring to my original post and the fault of. P2w) The idea of it was probably used as a plot device so it made story written pvp moments feel more intense. (Referring to the long respawn time from eastern light novels) It could also be more plausible if people have access to only one account. (I believe this is achieved with eastern games by having user accounts / emails tied to their social security numbers)
If we could somehow achieve of version similar to this concept. Do you believe there’s a way it could avoid being p2w? Also, thoughts one respawn taking different times that are still short. By that I mean instant, 2 min, 5min, 10min, or even 30 minutes?
This idea of making ‘death more impactful’ could also be leaning too heavily into ‘survival’ themes when the game is not a survival based game.
Another thought is that Intrepid already has ‘punishments’ set up for a users death from the resource drop, equipment degradation, and exp debt. I think those are already impactful and are going to be really fun! Seeing what could come of this idea through the collectively experience and overall great mindset of community seems worthwhile to me.
bosses can respawn after a few days, etc. thats fine
for players, well it depends. not too long to be honest...like i dont wanna not be able to play my character for an hour if i die...
I've been thinking about it and I believe most players would probably feel that way. Right now the multiplier for Death Penalty is 1x for green, .5x for purple, and 4x for red. That for the equipment degradation, exp debt, and resource drop. (Red users also have a chance of drooping equipment).
What if the respawn timer was 20 min for green, 10 min for purple, and 1 hour (3x) for red? You could even half all that and I think it would be interesting.
As of right now, the wiki states that users that are purple and green will spawn at a designated respawn point in the region, while red players will spawn nearby. There's some mention of death penalty affecting abilities and hp, but even with that what's stopping red players form endlessly swarming you caravan even after death? This extended time idea can remedy that. *If* it becomes a problem.
anything past a minute sucks btw. i can see a bit of a respawn during caravans or sieges to avoid constant swarming but that can also be balanced with giving the defenders an advantage
Having to wait fricking ages for a respawn would turn me off very quickly, and I wouldn't be re-subbing.
You gain nothing if you just sit there on your ass looking at a screen that says "you'll respawn in 20 minute - go touch grass you fucking nerd".
We already have weight to our deaths in the form of death penalties. Removing gameplay from subscription time is the stupidiest idea possible.
That's how I've always experienced this, before now. The delay isn't in getting back into the game, it's in getting back to 'exactly where you were and resuming what you were doing'.
Now in terms of PvP death, I think this becomes more of a question. Do we allow people to resurrect instantly and come sprinting back into the fight with full mana and hp? I would like some sort of resurrection sickness or time-gated stat penalty when dying to players for like X amount of time, which would revert after the time is up. If two guilds are at war I don't think the team that has a closer respawn should have the reward of dying and coming right back into the fight. Personally it would remove that "thrill" of the fight. But I guess if you're camping outside of someones town with respawns you get what you deserve for being close. But I know respawn penalities are mostly hated so I know it will never happen.
This would remove benefits of positioning and planning.
Smth like what's planned for sieges, where you can create a delay on player respawns if you do a specific thing - that's fine, but also only for certain structured pvp events. If people want to die 100 times during a caravan run - let them. They'll lose a shitton of gear durability and that's gonna be their penalty.
Imo pvp is meant to be way more repeatable and returnable to than pve.
There are other ways to make death impactful besides the delayed respawn. I don't like the idea of getting zerg'd in pvp. Or if you find a spot with resources that you want to gather, then get into a conflict with one or two people and you win. Now you know they're going to be heading straight back to you.
I'd love to have meaningful conflict in whatever way Intrepid decides.
I think that having to wait 20 min after death shouldn't make people rage. It shouldn't feel good and shouldn't that reinforce that dying should be avoided? I think it could give meaningful preparation and caution to the world. I see how this could be a negative with the idea of losing time on a game that you pay for monthly. It still might have some merit to consider...
So the timer would be for those who don't?
no merit to consider. people wont pvp with 20 mins respawns. i guess you just dont want people attacking you when you are pveing or gathering for fear of dying. if thats what you want, just say it man, its ok
you wont be zerged instantly that much anyways. and people will not be able to come back to your spot before you finish mining some rocks or whatever if you kill them. rememeber that there isnt instant teleport in ashes and it takes a few mins to go from 1 place to another one nearby plus potential mobs in the way that you would have to fight.
your suggestion wont really prevent what you described, because as you (or someone) mentioned earlier, when people die, they would go into an alt. so whats preventing them to log into their alt and killing you instead of coming back with their main?
I appreciate the humor but I'm okay with pvp, I'm just exploring ideas.
If someone who is a red player has the prerogative for the day to kill everyone on sight in a certain area, there's not really a hesitation or planning process when they find a target. If there was 'some form' of punishment's for death that could cause them to wait until someone's guard is down then that could add an interesting layer into the gaming experience.
Or if one of my friends die due to a trap / mob/ or red player, wouldn't that make us more cautious moving forward?
As for the logging into an alt, there's lots of way to combat that or to try to.
I do believe that my original post have been proven to not be a good fit for ashes. I'd love to hear how you think death is impactful or not impactful enough, or shouldn't be impactful!
^You have a good point. Is taking some time (let's cut it down to 5 min) really that long for a game that your probably going to play for hours that day really that long? Wouldn't the amount of deaths you had that day stick out to you more this way, instead of just sailing past them like they didn't exist after you repair your gear, get a little exp back, and go regather the wood or stone you were mining?
Respawn and travel time were important even more so when it comes to pvp. how respawns over the years have gotten closer, freebee death, towards the point you just respawn where you die.
red players still get heavily punished when they die...potentially losing weeks of progress, not just 20 mins.
In my uneducated perspective, I don't know if weeks of progress would be lost, maybe for a normal player if they had their best gear on and are leveling for raids. Red players are people who go after green players who aren't flagged for pvp. They probably don't care about 15% of their Xp and might not be wearing their best equipment.
I could be very wrong on how impactful these penalties are, I can only speculate from the wiki.
Also, if you take a group of bounty hunters to kill a group of red players, wouldn't it feel good knowing that they aren't immediately back in the game. I think it adds the 'feeling of death' to player deaths. Not just penalties.
no because id be afected by that as well. aslwo hy do u specifically hate red players? theres nothing evil about being red..
what if oyu pk someone because they pk you before first, for example?
we also dont know if you will be able to pk wearing crappy gear or not...
Well, you can. By not even going out of the city. Sounds like a greatly designed mmo
Career PKers only care about fucking other people over. You know what's gonna have those PKers creaming their pants? That they can literally forbid a player from playing the game for 20 damn minutes. I can't even imaaaagine how good that PKer will feel with each kill. The game's population will drop faster than nfts did.
It really wouldn't. If I want to kill people - I want to kill people, not sit around waiting for them to respawn.
Funnest times in L2 came from the same dude coming back every damn minute to the same spot and flagging on me, because he truly believed he could kill me. And sometimes he could, but then I would come back within a minute and kill him back. I've made several friends this way because we tested our might against each other, instead of quitting the game because every death meant not playing the game for half a damn hour.
In other words, long respawns are simply not fun. And games should be fun
I've seen somewhere a statement from Steven that players who die and respawn at spawn points, might want to run back to retrieve their ashes.
By adding a delay, we would cancel this possibility.