GvG thoughts

dnn_

As we eagerly await the unfolding of our own guild versus guild (GvG) battles in Ashes of Creation, I wanted to take a moment to share some reflections on the GvG experiences I've had in other MMOs. Specifically, I can't help but draw comparisons to the golden era of GvG in Ragnarok, a game that truly embraced and rewarded organized and strategic play.

Ragnarok Online stands out as a prime example of a game where GvG was not just a side activity but a central part of the gameplay. The structure of the game encouraged players to form organized groups, fostering a sense of camaraderie and teamwork. Battles were intense, requiring not only individual skill but also coordination and strategy to emerge victorious. It was a meta where guilds thrived on organization, and success was a testament to the teamwork and synergy within a guild.

On the other hand, I've experienced a stark contrast in some recent MMOs like Throne and Liberty, as well as Lost Ark. These games seem to lean towards a more chaotic and disorganized GvG setting, where players are mixed up, attacking everyone in sight, and strategic elements often take a back seat. It becomes more about sheer numbers rather than the intricate dance of strategy and teamwork.

One of the aspects that truly set Ragnarok Online apart in the realm of GvG dynamics was the profound impact of area-of-effect (AoE) skills such as Land Protector and Poem of Bragi. These skills, designed to influence the battlefield on a grand scale, played a pivotal role in shaping the meta towards organized and tightly grouped guilds. The strategic deployment of Land Protector not only protected vital structures but also necessitated guild members to stay close together, fostering a sense of unity and coordination. Additionally, the enchanting effects of Poem of Bragi amplified the efficiency of the guild's actions, encouraging players to remain within close proximity for optimal buff coverage. This emphasis on staying grouped up not only enhanced the overall organization of GvG encounters but also underscored the importance of teamwork and strategic planning. It's this unique blend of AoE dynamics and strategic cooperation that made GvG in Ragnarok a truly immersive and organized experience, setting a benchmark for what GvG could achieve in an MMO setting.

As we look forward to Ashes of Creation, I'm hopeful that our GvG experiences will echo the organized and strategic brilliance of games like Ragnarok.

How do you envision the GvG landscape in Ashes of Creation, and what elements from other games would you like to see embraced or avoided?

EnderlinH

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guild_wars
The plan is that Guild Wars works around objetives, not only senseless PvP

dnn_

EnderlinH wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guild_wars
The plan is that Guild Wars works around objetives, not only senseless PvP

Being objective based doesn't mean anything as gvg in every game is basically objective based.

Voxtrium

I would certainly like to see any large battle be heavily focused around team play and intelligent decision making. Large battles won't be that much fun if its fully randomized and players are everywhere

Enigmatic Sage

Will probably be costly just like every other aspect of PvP.

arsnn

I could see the bard filling a smiliar position as what you described there as „designed to impact the battlefield at large scale through aoe.“

Way back intrepid talked about bard having some aoe templates that reward players that are in the right position.

I would love a mechanic of that sort. If feel like the current approach to combat always ends up as an uncoordinated deathball in large scale fights.
You‘d need some way to push and pull groups with incentives and barriers into smaller units like parties. I hope that is what the bard does.

But of course this deathball combat issue is broader than just implementing 1 role to enforce something more coordinated.
Things like the pace of combat, the amount and quality of movement abilities, targeting mechanics, design of vfx and so on, plays a big role in whether large scale pvp will feel strategic and coordinated.

Azherae

From the other side, then, I believe that at the highest levels of any decent game, GvG becomes more tactical.

Basically, if the game doesn't suck, I think that how much a player believes it is actually strategic and tactical depends mostly on how long they've been playing it.

'Uncoordinated groups' are the norm because they're what you get first, and coordination comes with understanding and practice that can take months or years to develop. So I also think that any new game will 'appear to be rewarding this', and therefore even Ashes will have that feeling at launch.

Unless of course we'll all have played Alpha-2 and Betas for so long that there are entire websites discussing the optimal military tactics in Ashes of Creation.