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Grand Master Professions

At this point I think it's fair to assume that becoming a Grand Master in any profession will be a very difficult achievement and require some hard choices. I would not be surprised if < 50% of the player base achieves Grand Master.

As I think about my potential path to becoming a Grand Master, I am confronted with some cold realities. This isn't a complaint, because I am all-in on the Ashes hype train. This game looks like a masterpiece and I can't wait to play. Rather, it's just looking for discussion.

Processing
For me, I highly doubt I will ever be able to obtain a Freehold, and honestly, I don't really want to make the time commitment to one anyway. Plus, I recall IS stating that the majority of the time spent in professions will be in Processing, which is also not too appealing to me. I could seek a family with a freehold, but the family system seems like it could be kinda annoying. At least it's an option, I guess.

Crafting
Are the legendary crafting benches in Scientific Nodes truly limited to node Citizens only? Such a huge bummer. I love getting rich trading goods in MMOs, buying and selling, the Auction House. An Economic Node is almost definitely going to be my jam. If the legendary benches are limited to citizens only, that would mean no Grand Master in Crafting for me. I am all about choices, but damn, that's a tough tradeoff. Now that we can have 2 Grand Masters, I would really like one to be a Crafting profession.

It's really hard to imagine that all Grand Masters in crafting MUST be citizens of Scientific Nodes. Boo. But that does seem to be the case, per the wiki:
"Upper-tier crafting benches within a node are accessible by its citizens.[13]" https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crafting_stations

Gathering
So that leaves Gathering. That was fine when we were being limited to one Grand Master. But now that we can have 2 Grand Masters, I'd rather not be railroaded into 2 gathering professions. Another thought on Gathering. Is there really any doubt that the top level Gathering will occur within the absolute top level content? I suspect it will be extremely hard to gather the top level mats. Like herbalism. The most rare will probably need to be gathered at the end of the hardest raids, with very specific conditions and such. I like that, tbh, and I have no doubt I will be doing those raids. But I'm sure it will exclude a good chunk players.

I almost wonder if maybe IS needs to rethink the gates leading to Grand Masters now that we can have two. Specifically, I feel limiting Grand Master Crafters to Scientific Node citizens is not ideal. If we can have 2 professions, it sure seems like a huge portion of the population will want one to be a crafter. This seems like it would funnel a disproportionate portion of the population into Scientific Nodes, causing imbalance. Thoughts?

Comments

  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Perhaps consider splitting your play time between two characters, one of which could have citizenship in that Scientific node? This would require you to have two accounts, which is permitted, and which may have other benefits as well.
  • Tacquito wrote: »
    At this point I think it's fair to assume that becoming a Grand Master in any profession will be a very difficult achievement and require some hard choices. I would not be surprised if < 50% of the player base achieves Grand Master.

    As I think about my potential path to becoming a Grand Master, I am confronted with some cold realities. This isn't a complaint, because I am all-in on the Ashes hype train. This game looks like a masterpiece and I can't wait to play. Rather, it's just looking for discussion.

    Processing
    For me, I highly doubt I will ever be able to obtain a Freehold, and honestly, I don't really want to make the time commitment to one anyway. Plus, I recall IS stating that the majority of the time spent in professions will be in Processing, which is also not too appealing to me. I could seek a family with a freehold, but the family system seems like it could be kinda annoying. At least it's an option, I guess.

    Crafting
    Are the legendary crafting benches in Scientific Nodes truly limited to node Citizens only? Such a huge bummer. I love getting rich trading goods in MMOs, buying and selling, the Auction House. An Economic Node is almost definitely going to be my jam. If the legendary benches are limited to citizens only, that would mean no Grand Master in Crafting for me. I am all about choices, but damn, that's a tough tradeoff. Now that we can have 2 Grand Masters, I would really like one to be a Crafting profession.

    It's really hard to imagine that all Grand Masters in crafting MUST be citizens of Scientific Nodes. Boo. But that does seem to be the case, per the wiki:
    "Upper-tier crafting benches within a node are accessible by its citizens.[13]" https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crafting_stations

    Gathering
    So that leaves Gathering. That was fine when we were being limited to one Grand Master. But now that we can have 2 Grand Masters, I'd rather not be railroaded into 2 gathering professions. Another thought on Gathering. Is there really any doubt that the top level Gathering will occur within the absolute top level content? I suspect it will be extremely hard to gather the top level mats. Like herbalism. The most rare will probably need to be gathered at the end of the hardest raids, with very specific conditions and such. I like that, tbh, and I have no doubt I will be doing those raids. But I'm sure it will exclude a good chunk players.

    I almost wonder if maybe IS needs to rethink the gates leading to Grand Masters now that we can have two. Specifically, I feel limiting Grand Master Crafters to Scientific Node citizens is not ideal. If we can have 2 professions, it sure seems like a huge portion of the population will want one to be a crafter. This seems like it would funnel a disproportionate portion of the population into Scientific Nodes, causing imbalance. Thoughts?

    they are limiting what each player/account can do to a certain extent on purpose so that players need each other. imagine if in any other game, a blacksmith can make you the best sword, but he cant use it to fight monsters since h e is a blacksmith, not a fighter. the fighter / soldier can use the sword well, but he cant make one.

    in aoc, you can be an artisan (gatherer/processor/crafter) and a fighter (adventurer) but the separation occurs at a node level. if you join a scientific node, you miss out on some stuff, like the religious progression which can give you augments for pve or the military nodes that are aimed at the pvp folks.

    you could still join a scientific node and trade, who says you cant? you dont have to be a part of an economic node to sell your stuff. remember that you can also chance your citizenship. if you just want to craft your gear and call it a day, just get all the mats, then change citizenship when its time to craft, then change back to your regular node once the cooldown is over. if you want to craft constantly, you will have to join a scientific node i guess.

    regarding gathering, nothing is set in stone but i suspect highest level gathering will occur near tier 6 nodes, not necessarily after killing a boss, but probably near powerful mobs

    choices are trade offs, this is good ;3
  • Sacrifices and choices must be made in order to achieve greatness. You wanna be the very best, like no one ever was? You gotta make the right choices and stick to them.
  • They do not limit people to only Scientific nodes just because you hypothetically dont think youll get a freehold or wont bother joining a guild/group/family that does.

    Matter of factly, the scientific node is an extra choice for people who want to do high level crafting without having a freehold.

    It is kindof wanting to have the cake and eat it too. You would have to choose between being a Grandmaster Trader and a Grandmaster Crafter, sort of speak. Because, as you said, aspiring to become Grandmaster in crafting would be a sole focus type of thing. You wouldnt have time to focus primarily on trading at the same time - assumedly.
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    edited December 2023
    Good job on articulating your concerns about crafting! In case you haven't already, be sure to check out the official feedback thread for the November livestream on the Artisanship System! https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56734/feedback-request-alpha-two-artisanship-preview-shown-in-november-livestream/p1

    I look forward to our upcoming testing phases in which players can dive into Artisanship and see if their concerns change or adapt after playing with the system!
    community_management.gif
  • SargramorSargramor Member
    edited December 2023
    Those choices will lead to clones objects for max level crafters with legendary crafting benches ...
    The limitation per account will just lead to favoring people who can afford several subscriptions...

    The only way to restrain someone to be everything in a game is time...

    In Asheron Call, you earned xp to level but you also attributed this xp to ALL skills for the char.
    And skills were theorically unlimited in cap but the logarithmic approach to the next threshold to reach made it impossible to reach levels that unbalanced the game.
    So hard core people prefering fight did not use a lot of xp in crafter skills.
    Just some to do basic craft if needed.
    Several characters would changed nothing as you have to earn this xp to attrib it to skills.
    So earn it on one char or divided on 2 chars would not help, the amount of time spent to earn it stays the same.

    There is 2 types of craft:
    Realistic or arcade (WoW-craft)....
    A realistic one can only be based on time spent in, like in real...

    Choose it well, else, all of your communication about crafting would have been just a big speech...
  • SargramorSargramor Member
    edited December 2023
    Ok i just saw the crafting interface, it looks like a wow-like craft, with maybe some little options...
  • edited December 2023
    pick two grandmaster professions that you can benefit from depending on your method of gameplay.

    Self efficiency method such as as gatherer and processing, processing and crafting assuming you plan on fully utilising a free hold.

    herbalism + alchemy
    mining + stone mason or metal working
    metal working + black smithing (weapon or armour)

    If you plan on farming on one character and processing/crafting on alts

    dual gathering (herbalism + mining)
    dual processing ( stone mason + metal working)
    dual crafting. ( weapon and armour smithing)

    You'll get to master and be relatively decent in many other artisan classes on a single character so with a couple characters you can essentially become quite self sustaining assuming you have the time and/or friends or guildmates along the way.

    No different than any other game essentially. Just depends on how you want to interact within the game world.


    EDIT:

    Each character in terms of artisan classes can be:

    2 = Grand master
    3 = Masters

    The rest is novice or what ever it is.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Tacquito wrote: »
    Gathering
    So that leaves Gathering. That was fine when we were being limited to one Grand Master. But now that we can have 2 Grand Masters, I'd rather not be railroaded into 2 gathering professions. Another thought on Gathering. Is there really any doubt that the top level Gathering will occur within the absolute top level content? I suspect it will be extremely hard to gather the top level mats. Like herbalism. The most rare will probably need to be gathered at the end of the hardest raids, with very specific conditions and such. I like that, tbh, and I have no doubt I will be doing those raids. But I'm sure it will exclude a good chunk players.

    I almost wonder if maybe IS needs to rethink the gates leading to Grand Masters now that we can have two. Specifically, I feel limiting Grand Master Crafters to Scientific Node citizens is not ideal. If we can have 2 professions, it sure seems like a huge portion of the population will want one to be a crafter. This seems like it would funnel a disproportionate portion of the population into Scientific Nodes, causing imbalance. Thoughts?

    Ok, thought about it a while, didn't wanna post because it just feels like I'm challenging, but finally going for it.

    Why don't you want to be 'Railroaded'? People have different dispositions toward things, what you view as 'Railroading' might be what another person views as 'positive' or 'obvious'. Similarly, even if Grandmaster Gathering is 'dangerous exploration'/'dangerous post-combat' dependent, I don't see exactly what matters here? You 'don't seem to mind'.

    Also, is there a specific reason why you say 'no Grand Master in Crafting for me'? Is it that you don't believe one can reach Grand Master in Crafting without a Legendary Crafting Station, or is it that you're enough of an optimizer that you're not willing to 'bother' becoming a Grand Master crafter if you can't access the Legendary Crafting Station'? If the latter, I'll just remind that it's possible for a server to never even have one. I believe your implication is that you know this, and your concern is that most people will go to Scientific Nodes because they want this Legendary Crafting Station to exist, so I'm just verifying, since you did also say some stuff in your second quoted paragraph that makes me think you are worried about it in both ways.

    The monumental achievement of becoming Grand Master is 'relative', sort of. I'm personally assuming less than 2000 hours.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • edited December 2023
    @Azherae good point.

    For those who do not wish to take part in the crafting, they should at least do gathering. You're going to be out killing mobs and coming across nodes. May as well make some moneys along the way outside of the glint system. Nodes will require lots of resources for sieges and trading.

    Not to mention you'll probably want something crafted down the road that could require some rare resources.
  • Good question from @Liniker in today's livestream. He asked if the best crafting is restricted to Scientific nodes only, and if node types have restrictions in regards to crafting.

    Steven answered that there are no restrictions as it relates to the best crafting, but the Scientific nodes provide bonuses to crafting within the node. He went on to say that this means it's not a "hard lock out", it's a soft bonus system.

    Great news for those of us who may want to be a Grand Master crafter without living in a Scientific Node!
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