A Discussion on Tanks

JC31

The classes in Ashes will be balanced around the PvE aspect of the game. Class match ups are more like rock paper scissors. Meaning each class has it's specialty and that's not going to change. If you try to balance each class based off of 1v1 match ups, you get retail world of warcraft, we don't want that.

That being said, I do still believe that tanks should hit like a truck, all to varying degrees. (Other than paladins who hit softer than a female tennis player).

If I am a tank/ranger combo warden class, I may or may not do more or less damage with my bow than I do with my melee weapon, probably will depend on the situation.

Sathrago

JC31 wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

I think in pvp its important that tanks have tools that actively make you want to attack them, without forcing you to in a literal sense.

For example, maybe tanks bring powerful auras that boost their allies pvp potential by a significant amount, and the only way to get rid of this aura is to do a percentage of their health in the span of a few seconds putting the aura on cooldown for 20 or so seconds.

These buffs could range from cooldown reduction, attack speed, spell power, "execution effects", damage reduction, etc.

Another good idea would probably be to add guard skills, letting tanks guard specific players from harm. This could be used to protect high value healers/ccers/damage dealers, and the idea would be to make it more reasonable to tear through the tank instead of tunneling that target down.

Theres also the offensive aspect, where these auras could apply detrimental effects to enemies, from movement speed reduction, to reducing resource generation (mana, special class resources, etc), damage over time, damage taken increase, for just a few examples.

Tanks are not just a guy that takes longer to kill, they should be seen as protectors/commanders that can bring a group through battles. That takes skills that protect others, not just themselves. Mechanically they would take on a more support role for groups. On one hand they buff allies/debuff enemies, and on the other they are a focus point in fights that, if lost, can severely change the outcome of fights.

I believe these would be good ways to make sure tanks are just as important for pvp as any other role.

The classes in Ashes will be balanced around the PvE aspect of the game. Class match ups are more like rock paper scissors. Meaning each class has it's specialty and that's not going to change. If you try to balance each class based off of 1v1 match ups, you get retail world of warcraft, we don't want that.

That being said, I do still believe that tanks should hit like a truck, all to varying degrees. (Other than paladins who hit softer than a female tennis player).

If I am a tank/ranger combo warden class, I may or may not do more or less damage with my bow than I do with my melee weapon, probably will depend on the situation.

did you quote the wrong person? I said nothing about 1v1s

JC31

@Sathrago
Yeah, I miss-quoted you then, late night. Shouldn't have quoted you for that post.

KLC_Rocsek

I'd prefer if the Tank class in ashes be someone who excels at using skills that specialize in reduction and redirection of dmg, retaining focus, and protection of others that are being focused. And depending on their weapon choice, can put out more or less damage. With 8 base classes with a purpose, tanks need to be as unique as a healer when it comes to what they do.

TeemEmurica

Xeeg wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

I'd prefer if buff/debuff mechanics were the realm of the bards, while tanks simply have active protection in all kinds of forms. One of the main forms I'd want is repositioning tools:

• reposition the tank
• reposition the ally
• reposition the enemy
• combos of all of the above

Repositioning mechanics can be a lot of fun to use, but when you are the enemy and you get repositioned it can be less fun than being stunned, which isn't very fun. People tend to dislike loss of character control mechanics.

Agreed, also repositioning abilities shouldn't be on Tanks other than charging in. Repositioning allies should be a summoner/bard thing in my opinion as those two are more geared to back line support. Long cool down of course.

As for what Tanks should have is the vast majority of CC. It makes them a serious threat in pvp that can act as engage, disengage, or peel. It would also allow them to have another job in PvE as the "Interrupter" for strong abilities by mobs or bosses.

Mionikoi

What do you all think of buff/debuffs from shouts and stances like GuildWars1 did for 'Warriors'?

Depraved

Mionikoi wrote: »

What do you all think of buff/debuffs from shouts and stances like GuildWars1 did for 'Warriors'?

i like the idea of each class having a unique buff. not sure if id like the tank to be based on buffs, maybe the tank/bard could give some short lived buffs to the party when he uses a skill.

also, id say that shouts fit more with the warrior archetype.

some of these things could be added for tank/any secondary that isnt a tank, but i kind of want my tank/tank to be focused on classic stuff, meat shield, some cc and forcing enemies to hit him

JC31

I would like my tank to be able to block attackers from passing through him. I want tanks in ashes to be a very large rock that my enemies can't pass through. @Vaknar - Please suggest that tanks have extra collision effect so that mobs and other players can't just pass through them like a ghost. Tanks are about absorbing damage, but also very much about tactical and positional control. (Blocking) I would like to see a bunch of tanks be able to form a shield wall together like in Vikings or 300.

Mionikoi

A thing to consider and keep in mind is that there will be collision priority. A tank will not be able to stop a caravan and certainly not a boat with their body.

JC31

I don't know, I can imagine that a summoner would be able to stop a caravan or a boat.. A tank could probably stop a caravan if he formed a shield wall with his other tank friends; Unless the caravan were moving so fast and with so much momentum that they would just strike them over like bowling pins.

Mionikoi

Caravans are also equipped with their own skills too, like pulse which sends entities flying. (But I also think Steven stated collision priority.)