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Concerns over "open world" high level content
Clixian
Member
Hello,
First off I want to say how excited I am about the Alpha 2 in 2024, I've been waiting for this game for a number of years!
However the more I read and hear about "open world high level bosses" and "spawn windows", it transports me back to early days in Final Fantasy 11.. where ultimately, the larger guilds monopolise these bosses and it becomes very exclusive (really hope I'm wrong with AoC)
Obviously if you're in one of these guilds it'll be great... however for the others on the periphery, the end game content can become very limited.
I also have concerns about parties being able to jump into open world raids and steal bosses and loot... red flags with this one also!
Like I said, really hope I'm wrong and players choose team work to achieve goals together... but in my experience in the past, it's seldom the case.
First off I want to say how excited I am about the Alpha 2 in 2024, I've been waiting for this game for a number of years!
However the more I read and hear about "open world high level bosses" and "spawn windows", it transports me back to early days in Final Fantasy 11.. where ultimately, the larger guilds monopolise these bosses and it becomes very exclusive (really hope I'm wrong with AoC)
Obviously if you're in one of these guilds it'll be great... however for the others on the periphery, the end game content can become very limited.
I also have concerns about parties being able to jump into open world raids and steal bosses and loot... red flags with this one also!
Like I said, really hope I'm wrong and players choose team work to achieve goals together... but in my experience in the past, it's seldom the case.
0
Comments
The exclusivity is basically the point, though.
The thing you need to hope for is simply that there's enough other content.
The 'endgame content' of Ashes might not be focused on things like Jormy.
Majority of content seems to be centered around primetime windows on servers, so you just need to be a part of the resistance, if your server has a big powerful group. STAND UP TO THE MAN!
Yea this is true, and the other 99% of the game looks great and in the right direction for a modern day MMO, (that isn't just another WoW clone), I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it is when there are more players on servers.
This reply fills me with hope!
I guess i've never looked at an MMO that way, and AoC are bringing some new concepts, certainly in my head anyway, so yea banding together and rising up against the power brokers is almost a story in itself!
1- well, i wouldnt say you not being able to kill a boss is a very limited content. there are lots of things to do, other than killing bosses. this is a pvp game where not everybody is a winner. if you cant take 1 boss because the big guilds are fighting for it, then you can take another one that spawned at the same time and fight for it. if you cant take any bosses, farm something else and buy the loot.
2- stealing bosses isnt a red flag at all. this can even be your chance to take the boss from a stronger group that you could not normally beat in pvp...
That's the beauty of sanboxy games. I'm sure Steven has some interesting story to tell us, but I highly doubt it's gonna be more interesting than the potential deep and complex politics of a full server.
And even if you're afraid that you can't keep up with the hardcore players that grind 24/7 - you can still choose to see that server story as the story of the game, where you're just a viewer on the sidelines. You're part of a much bigger world that lives on its own w/o you directly impacting it. Is that not the most immersive story ever? To me it is
As for the 'stealing open world bosses' part, all I can say is that from my experiences in Alpha, which are probably very changed, by now...
This wouldn't be simple enough for it to happen as a 'basic steal' the way it would have been done in FFXI precisely because of the PvX nature of the game. There would be no mechanic a smaller group could use to quickly snatch the target or loot.
The community 'loves' to discuss whether or not the disruption types will prevent the boss experience itself from being reasonable or fun, but the systems described don't lead to 'anyone coming up and just stealing the loot', as of now, even if they kill all the original attackers while the boss is at 2% and then finish it.
Technically they're better off waiting for you to finish the kill, or even helping with it, and then just killing whoever got the drop.
This is very interesting and perhaps I'm just overthinking it, because I haven't had a chance to play the game, so I don't have a feel for the atmosphere and community. Also, the concept of PVX is a new one to me, getting my head around the fact that actually I can fight back against these people trying to "steal" my loot! ha!
im pretty sure if the boss is at 2% and you kill whoever got it that low, the loot priority will reset. i mean...dead people cant loot. so all you have to do is do 2% damage and get all the loot.
I probably misunderstood something about how loot works in Ashes, then, and as usual just inserted my own biased assumptions about how it would have to work.
Since it's relevant to the thread, I guess we can sorta-pivot to discussing that if anyone cares? As for me, I'm against it.
I don't mind having to fight people for the boss. I don't mind losing the loot because random enemy players come up and decide 'no we don't like you, we're gonna deny your drops'.
I draw the line at the point where the incentive to cooperate with the people who did most of the work in downing an encounter, instead of just stealing it (yes, even with the Corruption penalties) is absolutely zero, to the point where it makes more sense to try to kill them with the boss at 2% and then try to finish it quickly than to leave it alone.
90% of the time I expect to be attacked by even neutral players, at a Boss Encounter, if they want the drops. I just don't want them to be able to 'finish the last 2% of the job and still get all the same quality drops'.
so how would it work then?
lets say you are killing the boss, i come with my aprty and kill yours. you go back to town. i finish the last 2% and then what happens? you automatically receive the loot back in town? will the boss loot be dropped to the floor, and now i have to defend it for a few mins until i can loot it, giving you a chance (or anyone) to come pick it up?
No, to be clear, I don't want to receive the loot in that case. If you want to deny your enemies loot, I think this should be a valid option. I just don't want the 'upper grade loot table roll options' to trigger for the group that took over at the last 2%.
I believe this would promote a style of gameplay I wouldn't personally like, where people are always incentivized to wait for someone else to make the effort and then take the result. I know it's more realistic, but it isn't a type of realism I appreciate in MMORPGs because it can only happen due to a basis of many other unrealistic things that are required for these games.
Basically if you kill the group that definitely had the looting rights to the boss at the last moment, you still get some loot, but you get much less.
Your other concept also works pretty well for me. The boss loot 'drops on the ground' or something and you can't claim it immediately. This feels even less realistic, but at least it isn't 'ok quick give it to the party member that will log their character off as soon as they get it so that no one can try to kill them for the drop'.
@Depraved saying: "will the boss loot be dropped to the floor, and now i have to defend it for a few mins until i can loot it, giving you a chance (or anyone) to come pick it up?"
Is what happened in L2 in such scenarios, but such scenarios were actually uncommon due to certain counter strategies such as Mass Resurrection last resort Loops when a number of allied Clan Players were dead and those players not immediatly accepting the ressurrection but waiting through its whole possible acceptance duration and if close to the end of the duration one dead healer quickly stands up and using Mass Resurrection again renewing the duration before being killed.
Either forcing the enemies to finish off the boss and risking kamikaze resurrected players with the looting rights to loot stuff before once again being killed or waiting for the whole resurrection acceptance duration giving time for possible reagrupation of the rest of the players that didn't received resurrection or simple returned to town for regroup (impossible for the bosses with a portal entrance that closes[mainly the Legendary world bosses]).
Aren't we all sinners?
While it seems justified to look closely at this point, overall I don't regard this as an issue.
Here is why I think so:
I hope this isn’t true. What a sad reality for casual players. If you’re not 24/7… you can watch the 24/7 players…
And, supposedly, nodes will rely more on casuals just doing their thing in their nodes, so everyone will have some form of influence on the words - it'll just be the tiniest unnoticeable bit.
And, well, obviously there's gonna be some form of story in the game, so those who care about that can do that.