Is it just me, or do I see some downgrade in the latest Ranger devstream?

Greetings!

I'm currently a bit cold regarding what I've seen today in the Ranger #2 devstream. The Ranger, in my opinion, has always been the class that looked the best of all those they have shown. Last year devstream was the peak of quality I expected in the entire game, and a year ago when I saw the first Ranger devstream, I was amazed by everything: The model, the animations, the skill effects, that area skill where he jumped doing an acrobatic move... Everything perfect.

This week when I saw they were announcing a Ranger devstream, I thought it wasn't the highest priority, but I watched it anyway because I was expecting to see new skills. However, when I saw it today, I felt a bit cold. I noticed that many animations and skill effects look simpler than before.

Casting skill.
DevStream from 1 year ago. Minute 14:38:

https://youtu.be/0257a-goFwE?si=tAzoAOX6HejZAaUh
Today's DevStream. Minute 4:55:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp4H9XdKHao

If you notice, today's stream effects are simpler in terms of particles.

Another skill example. The skill where he jumps with the acrobatics (area)
DevStream from 1 year ago. Minute 15:41:

https://youtu.be/0257a-goFwE?si=tAzoAOX6HejZAaUh
Today's DevStream. Minute 18:37:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp4H9XdKHao

It looks simpler. In fact, I think the developer says they have changed the effect of that skill because it looked laggy. And that's where I want to go: Is it possible that all this is because they were seeing that there was going to be a lot of lag or FPS drops when tens or hundreds of players gathered? In fact, I remember that in the last dev streams (caravans) there were many desync problems, and now the gameplay seems to be more fluid.

Lastly, I would like to add that I also see that the snow environment needs to be worked on compared to Riverlands. The quality standard is below. And also today's character modeling... Even the sound of shooting the arrow before, I liked more...

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

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Depraved

just you.

also, the snow was great

Thokan

Depraved wrote: »

just you.

also, the snow was great

I mean, there was some textures that didnt overlap properly. But hey, WIP, ya know.

Great stream. The ranger looked to feel amazing. Really cool class fantasy they managed to put in there, and original too. Love to see it

Artharion

Depraved wrote: »

just you.

also, the snow was great

The devs said they reduced particle effects because of lag concerns (min 18:42).. So not just me, even the devs even admited it.

Depraved

Artharion wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

just you.

also, the snow was great

They said they reduced particle effects because of lag concerns (min 18:42).. So not just me, even the devs even admited it.

but that doesnt mean things downgraded...unless you mean something different by that word. lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade.

Artharion

Depraved wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

just you.

also, the snow was great

They said they reduced particle effects because of lag concerns (min 18:42).. So not just me, even the devs even admited it.

but that doesnt mean things downgraded...unless you mean something different by that word. lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade.

99% times in game development when companies downgrade their games is because of optimization issues. Why would you do it then? Less flashy gameplay? I could buy this for mage at the beginning in A1, but 1-year agop ranger showcase looked good and the effects were not overhelming. The community seemed ok with that looking at the feedback provided.

"lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade."

Less particles = less showy effects. Games 10 years ago had less particle effects, and games 10 years in the future will have more.

Depraved

Artharion wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

just you.

also, the snow was great

They said they reduced particle effects because of lag concerns (min 18:42).. So not just me, even the devs even admited it.

but that doesnt mean things downgraded...unless you mean something different by that word. lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade.

99% times in game development when companies downgrade their games is because of optimization issues. Why would you do it then? Less flashy gameplay? I could buy this for mage at the beginning in A1, but 1-year agop ranger showcase looked good and the effects were not overhelming. The community seemed ok with that looking at the feedback provided.

"lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade."

Less particles = less showy effects. Games 10 years ago had less particle effects, and games 10 years in the future will have more.

well i know what happens when you move the particle slider all the way to the right, and it doesnt look good. and im not even talking about performance, im talking about visuals.

more particles doesnt equal better visuals.

Korela

The fewer particles, the happier I am (to some extent)

Artharion

Depraved wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

just you.

also, the snow was great

They said they reduced particle effects because of lag concerns (min 18:42).. So not just me, even the devs even admited it.

but that doesnt mean things downgraded...unless you mean something different by that word. lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade.

99% times in game development when companies downgrade their games is because of optimization issues. Why would you do it then? Less flashy gameplay? I could buy this for mage at the beginning in A1, but 1-year agop ranger showcase looked good and the effects were not overhelming. The community seemed ok with that looking at the feedback provided.

"lowering particles could make things look better, so it would be a quality upgrade."

Less particles = less showy effects. Games 10 years ago had less particle effects, and games 10 years in the future will have more.

well i know what happens when you move the particle slider all the way to the right, and it doesnt look good. and im not even talking about performance, im talking about visuals.

more particles doesnt equal better visuals.

1 year ago many people thought it was great how the ranger was and now that you see simpler effects with fewer particles everyone thinks that's fine. Maybe it's the same as always in developments: Little room for feedback and criticism for not admitting that our favorite game may not be doing everything right?

Solmyr

I actually prefer the more toned-down effects. I can understand having super flashy VFX on something like a wizard, but for ranger I think a more grounded approach works better.

Remember, there are going to be 500+ player battles in this game, so minimizing opaque/emissive particles might actually be necessary to make that type of engagement even playable without forcing everyone to go into their settings to turn spell effects off.

Tyranthraxus

While it was said more in reference to combat balancing, Steven had an excellent quip in the update video today about looking at the game and being able to feel like it would be fun to play.

While there's endless possibility for *more* particle effects, sometimes less really is more. Technology has its limits and - as you touched upon - computers 10 years from now will likely be more up to the task than the ones that are widely available, in the present.

....Unless we're all living as cannibalistic scavengers in a post-war nuclear wasteland, of course.

Azherae

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

While it was said more in reference to combat balancing, Steven had an excellent quip in the update video today about looking at the game and being able to feel like it would be fun to play.

While there's endless possibility for *more* particle effects, sometimes less really is more. Technology has its limits and - as you touched upon - computers 10 years from now will likely be more up to the task than the ones that are widely available, in the present.

....Unless we're all living as cannibalistic scavengers in a post-war nuclear wasteland, of course.

I thought they specifically weren't doing any real balancing, though?

For me, anything that looks too 'fun to play' is sus because in general, it's really difficult for everyone to be 'having fun' at the same time. Designing too much for 'everyone having fun' tends to not turn out great, but I'm sure the next LiveStream will put that concern to rest.

Liniker

just you, comparing 2 different seasons with different screen effects/lighting/foliage, snow looks like... snow, its white and bland

Tyranthraxus

Azherae wrote: »

I thought they specifically weren't doing any real balancing, though?

For me, anything that looks too 'fun to play' is sus because in general, it's really difficult for everyone to be 'having fun' at the same time. Designing too much for 'everyone having fun' tends to not turn out great, but I'm sure the next LiveStream will put that concern to rest.

The elaboration he went into today is that they are NOT going to heavily worry about balancing until the Alpha Two, because that's where they're planning on getting the most-usable information and feedback. He wanted the abilities and combat to be fun 1st, and then they'll use a more-practical, later-on approach for balancing. It makes me very happy that our Alpha Two will be a *real* testing-Alpha, instead of just early access or a sneak-peek.

Yours truly will be re-watching the stream when it's on YouTube tomorrow, since I had to mute it, at parts. Didn't really have a lot of interest in the Ranger personally, but the gameplay looked quite compelling. The Ranger is emphasized as a VERY mobile class, with only a few abilities that require stand-still (like 'Snipe'). At parts, the Ranger is almost an air-bourne class, able to defy a lot of gravity because of the push-back that some of the abilities cause; Some of the extended jumps really defy conventional gravity.

If anyone didn't catch it live today? They went LONG; It's a 2+ hour update video, this month.

Artharion

Liniker wrote: »

just you, comparing 2 different seasons with different screen effects/lighting/foliage, snow looks like... snow, its white and bland

The ranger skills are exactly the same no matter the environment, but nice try.

WHIT3ROS3

I don't think you know what "downgrade" means.

AnimusRex

Rangers (and rogues) don't want to be noticed.

Less flashy animations actually makes more 'character sense'.

Liniker

Artharion wrote: »

The ranger skills are exactly the same no matter the environment, but nice try.

less flashy animations was asked by the majority of the community, its not a downgrade its making the game better

Enigmatic Sage

I do like the more archer and less bow caster side of it to be honest. Definitely looks like an archer class minus the peter pan flying with air strike lol

Artharion

AnimusRex wrote: »

Rangers (and rogues) don't want to be noticed.

Less flashy animations actually makes more 'character sense'.

By that assumption, let's remove all the effect. Totally vanished!

Liniker wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

The ranger skills are exactly the same no matter the environment, but nice try.

less flashy animations was asked by the majority of the community, its not a downgrade its making the game better

Can you provide the data that supports that statement?

Mag7spy

Artharion wrote: »

AnimusRex wrote: »

Rangers (and rogues) don't want to be noticed.

Less flashy animations actually makes more 'character sense'.

By that assumption, let's remove all the effect. Totally vanished!

Liniker wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

The ranger skills are exactly the same no matter the environment, but nice try.

less flashy animations was asked by the majority of the community, its not a downgrade its making the game better

Can you provide the data that supports that statement?

if you have been keeping up with game and viewing different content creators, forums, and chats you will see people complain about effects covering up too much of screen and worried with larger fights about it being even worse.

Effects are great and all but better for single player games where its one person, compared to having like 50-100 people using them.

In this video you can see effects are so strong that its hard to see what is going on. AoC in a war would be 100* worse than this with strong effects everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38l-lxIa82g

Less effects isn't a downgrade, a downgrade would be if the effects looked worse than before (less does not equal worse)

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