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Cleric Damage During Ranger Showcase

So I realize IS is not focused on balancing damage or other stats at this stage. Having said that, they have made broad passes at the current damage numbers, and it was really interesting to observe the moment of organic pvp that erupted when Steven went corrupt during the Ranger stream.

Mark 31:10
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sp4H9XdKHao

Firstly, I noticed that Steven's max HP did not decrease due to the corruption. It stayed at 301 hp.

But insomuch as I intend to roll a Shadow Disciple, I was mostly focused on the damage that the Cleric was putting out and the fact that the Cleric almost killed Steven. For context, earlier in the stream, the Ranger Snipe ability was described by the dev as being an "opener" that is intended to deliver "massive damage". We then saw Snipe hit for 132 damage, with a crit at 215.

Later when the Cleric attacked Steven, I believe he was using the Judgment ability, which immediately hit for 115 (94 + 21). This was followed by some type of volley ability that dropped Steven to 16 HP in just a couple seconds. I didn't take the time to figure out what abilities the Cleric used after Judgment, so I'm not sure what that was off the top of my head (an augmented version of Mend perhaps?).

I'm not totally sure what affect corruption was having on the encounter, but Steven had just killed 1 player, so I assume the corruption penalty wasn't too severe at that point. And again, I noted that Steven's HP remained at 301 after going corrupt.


Overall, as it stands now, I was pretty happy with the damage the Cleric was able to do. And although Steven prevailed, he had no cooldowns and the Cleric did not heal himself. I suspect the Cleric easily would have won that if he had healed or if Steven had cooldowns.

It was just a really interesting moment to see, a glimpse at pvp and at how well a Cleric might be able to lay down damage.

Would be interesting to hear other hot takes on this.

Comments

  • Oh right, that happened. I forgot to mention this in feedback, cause was too concentrated on the other stuff.

    Corruption is not properly implemented at all or, alternatively, it has changed in design.

    Steven became corrupted on his second kill and not his first. That's not how that should work. He also got rid of his corruption in ~50 kills of super weak mobs, after 3 killed players.

    If those were his first PKs on that character (I assume they are) - that's a very very nice speed of return to green state. Obviously it's gonna be retuned and rebalanced 20 times, but still.

    As for dmg balancing, I'd expect glass cannon classes to get hit the hardest out of all classes, so a healer doing this kind of dmg to a ranger is right around what I'd prefer for Ashes. Obviously ttk is non-existent here, but that's whatever.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited December 2023
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.
  • nanfoodle wrote: »
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.

    Did he make that comment during this last stream, or some other time? I'd love to check out that quote if you know when he made the comment.
  • Tacquito wrote: »
    So I realize IS is not focused on balancing damage or other stats at this stage. Having said that, they have made broad passes at the current damage numbers, and it was really interesting to observe the moment of organic pvp that erupted when Steven went corrupt during the Ranger stream.

    Mark 31:10
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sp4H9XdKHao

    Firstly, I noticed that Steven's max HP did not decrease due to the corruption. It stayed at 301 hp.

    But insomuch as I intend to roll a Shadow Disciple, I was mostly focused on the damage that the Cleric was putting out and the fact that the Cleric almost killed Steven. For context, earlier in the stream, the Ranger Snipe ability was described by the dev as being an "opener" that is intended to deliver "massive damage". We then saw Snipe hit for 132 damage, with a crit at 215.

    Later when the Cleric attacked Steven, I believe he was using the Judgment ability, which immediately hit for 115 (94 + 21). This was followed by some type of volley ability that dropped Steven to 16 HP in just a couple seconds. I didn't take the time to figure out what abilities the Cleric used after Judgment, so I'm not sure what that was off the top of my head (an augmented version of Mend perhaps?).

    I'm not totally sure what affect corruption was having on the encounter, but Steven had just killed 1 player, so I assume the corruption penalty wasn't too severe at that point. And again, I noted that Steven's HP remained at 301 after going corrupt.


    Overall, as it stands now, I was pretty happy with the damage the Cleric was able to do. And although Steven prevailed, he had no cooldowns and the Cleric did not heal himself. I suspect the Cleric easily would have won that if he had healed or if Steven had cooldowns.

    It was just a really interesting moment to see, a glimpse at pvp and at how well a Cleric might be able to lay down damage.

    Would be interesting to hear other hot takes on this.

    on top of that, i doubt the ranger, or any class, will have 20 abilities with all passives at level 7 xDDD
  • Nothing is balanced like that and not a showcase of numbers as mentioned on stream already. So talks about this are pretty pointless.

    During and perhaps a month or few before the start of alpha 2 will make more of a time to comment on it.

    I would not look at any dmg and be happy on it since all that is going to get overhauled.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited December 2023
    Tacquito wrote: »
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.

    Did he make that comment during this last stream, or some other time? I'd love to check out that quote if you know when he made the comment.

    I believe it was in the last video but I have been binge watching the update videos again over the past couple of weeks and that comment stuck out to me because of my wife and our years of playing WoW.

    She loved her fire mage but it maddened her that for our last few years in WoW she was forced to play an Ice Mage as it just made Fire Spec useless. Ashes, her hope is to set everything on fire. I did rewind that comment and listen to it a few times to make sure I heard it right.

    So if Clerics have a DPS spec line. It will be able to compete with other classes DPS. Of course I'm sure every DPS spec will do things with their own flavor. Like a Ranger could have the best ranged DPS, Ice Mage have the best CC and a Rogue best close range Burst damage.
  • nanfoodle wrote: »
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.

    yea but wouldnt they be playing it for the wrong reason then lol
    ykwk7qwgw5os.jpg
  • nanfoodle wrote: »
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.

    yea but wouldnt they be playing it for the wrong reason then lol

    In other games where healers have only healing skills, it can be really hard to actually level them up, as you struggle to kill mobs. Having some useful damage skills at your disposal too allows you the opportunity to be pro-active in your levelling.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member
    edited December 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Steven became corrupted on his second kill and not his first. That's not how that should work. He also got rid of his corruption in ~50 kills of super weak mobs, after 3 killed players.

    I think it only counts as 2 kills btw since cleric did attack first in theory they should be a combatant and not suffer further corruption penalty, otherwise u can snowball somone into corruption by them defending themselfs

    I also think 1 free kills is fine personaly before corruption takes effect

    If i was to take a guess you get 50 corruption per green player kill of your level, and 51-X = Corruption one penalty dunno when next stage takes effects (seems like there stages since there was a 1 on the debuff guessing it goes to V aka 5)

    each mob seems to remove 1 corruption point currently
  • Veeshan wrote: »
    I think it only counts as 2 kills btw since cleric did attack first in theory they should be a combatant and not suffer further corruption penalty, otherwise u can snowball somone into corruption by them defending themselfs
    Corrupted players cannot "defend themselves". That is not how the system works. Steven was corrupted so cleric was not flagged.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I also think 1 free kills is fine personaly before corruption takes effect
    This is also a huge change from the system, which has not been indicated in any other way.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    If i was to take a guess you get 50 corruption per green player kill of your level, and 51-X = Corruption one penalty dunno when next stage takes effects (seems like there stages since there was a 1 on the debuff guessing it goes to V aka 5)

    each mob seems to remove 1 corruption point currently
    He killed people 3 times though. And "stages" is also a change. We haven't heard anything about steps of penalties. We know that they ramp up, but there was no mention of precise stages.

    In other words - there's either been a ton of changes to the system or it simply doesn't work properly rn. I would prefer the latter.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I think it only counts as 2 kills btw since cleric did attack first in theory they should be a combatant and not suffer further corruption penalty, otherwise u can snowball somone into corruption by them defending themselfs
    Corrupted players cannot "defend themselves". That is not how the system works. Steven was corrupted so cleric was not flagged.

    The cleric should be marked as an combatant to the Pker (not anyway else) the corrupted player should not suffer further corruption when somone attacks them as
    1. they voluntarily attacked which means they have concented to the fight and corruption is suppose to penalty the killing of non concential pvp
    2. Its griefable if you can attack somone and there nothing they can do appart from dig them deeper and deeper into corruption dept

    But yes they shouldnt be flagged as purple for attacking a corrupted player to those around them per say however the corrupted player shouldnt suffer further penalty for defending themself against people attacking them especialy when there appearing on bounty hunter map where they cant realy hide and work it off they have to keepo fighting while trying to work it off or just sit down and let them kill you which also defeats the purpose to a degree too. Like who want to play bounty hunter role when everyone they track down just stand there and let them kill them cause they know they only make it worst if they attack back and they cant realy run since they can be tracked.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I think it only counts as 2 kills btw since cleric did attack first in theory they should be a combatant and not suffer further corruption penalty, otherwise u can snowball somone into corruption by them defending themselfs
    Corrupted players cannot "defend themselves". That is not how the system works. Steven was corrupted so cleric was not flagged.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I also think 1 free kills is fine personaly before corruption takes effect
    This is also a huge change from the system, which has not been indicated in any other way.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    If i was to take a guess you get 50 corruption per green player kill of your level, and 51-X = Corruption one penalty dunno when next stage takes effects (seems like there stages since there was a 1 on the debuff guessing it goes to V aka 5)

    each mob seems to remove 1 corruption point currently
    He killed people 3 times though. And "stages" is also a change. We haven't heard anything about steps of penalties. We know that they ramp up, but there was no mention of precise stages.

    In other words - there's either been a ton of changes to the system or it simply doesn't work properly rn. I would prefer the latter.

    they never said that your stats are dampened after your first pk...
    getting a few pk before you start getting your stats dampened seems reasonable. but thats probably measured in corruption, not in pk. for example, if you kill a couple of people your own level, you wont get enough corruption to have your stats dampened but if you kill 1 person 20 levels lower than you, then you will get enough corruption to have your stats dampened after 1 kill.

    also, your stats arent dampened in pve.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.

    But they will be playing cleric to DPS, not heal, and for any serious healing a cleric should need to be healer specd.

    LFM Cleric Healer
  • Depraved wrote: »
    they never said that your stats are dampened after your first pk...
    getting a few pk before you start getting your stats dampened seems reasonable. but thats probably measured in corruption, not in pk. for example, if you kill a couple of people your own level, you wont get enough corruption to have your stats dampened but if you kill 1 person 20 levels lower than you, then you will get enough corruption to have your stats dampened after 1 kill.

    also, your stats arent dampened in pve.
    To me this is not even about stat dampening. It's simply about the supposed changes to the corruption system. I'll choose to believe that it was simply not implemented in the game yet, which is why it seemed wrong.

    We might get some answers in the next stream, cause it's about pvp, but that's definitely not for sure.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    they never said that your stats are dampened after your first pk...
    getting a few pk before you start getting your stats dampened seems reasonable. but thats probably measured in corruption, not in pk. for example, if you kill a couple of people your own level, you wont get enough corruption to have your stats dampened but if you kill 1 person 20 levels lower than you, then you will get enough corruption to have your stats dampened after 1 kill.

    also, your stats arent dampened in pve.
    To me this is not even about stat dampening. It's simply about the supposed changes to the corruption system. I'll choose to believe that it was simply not implemented in the game yet, which is why it seemed wrong.

    We might get some answers in the next stream, cause it's about pvp, but that's definitely not for sure.

    im not updated then. what are the changes to the corruption system? o-o
  • Depraved wrote: »
    im not updated then. what are the changes to the corruption system? o-o
    Again, I think the system was just not implemented properly yet.

    First kill didn't give corruption. CCs worked against a green player. The "1" on the corrupted icon implies some sort of stages/steps of penalties, which was not mentioned before. The healer didn't flag up after healing a corrupted player.
  • ah i see what u mean :3
  • "Those who make well, can also make ill." It's fitting that Cleric-combos (though admittedly probably not Cleric/Cleric) will be able to fill the damage role.

    Most games seem to have a "dark" or DPS-spec for their healers, as a way to make them more-viable in PvP. Yours truly foresees being a High Priest to get the best healer/healer class abilities, as it's a really good role for someone whom plans on being a guild leader/guild officer.

    I don't much care how my healer will perform damage-wise in PvP, as it'll probably be the case that my toon will likely only be found in group-PvP settings - spittin' mad heals.



  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited December 2023
    pyreal wrote: »
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Steven did mention that each class spec path would be viable. So a Cleric DPS spec would be something worth playing. IMO seeing the Cleric do that much damage made my heart rejoice. This means more people will play healers.

    But they will be playing cleric to DPS, not heal, and for any serious healing a cleric should need to be healer specd.

    LFM Cleric Healer

    You can switch specs in town. You get enough people playing healers, you can rotate taking turns playing main heals so you don't get bored or burn out. Rifts was like that. I often play heals and it's nice to be able to play other specs.

    Also as mentioned above it's hard lvl heals or solo play. Having a real DPS spec means you have more freedom on how you play.

    My hope is the Bard is much the same way.
  • Do we know at this point how much more effective the DPS build is supposed to be compared to the other builds?

    Are we looking at just marginally more effective and does the effectiveness come via combos?

    Meaning general attacks between Class A and Class B are comparable so that PVP works with a slight advantage for the DPS class, but Class A can situationally smoke Class B with proper preparation and timing (ie, player skill).

    And I suppose a Tank or Healer class could potentially do the same with the right circumstances, although I would expect the DPS class to have more tools in the toolbox.
  • Design-wise, I assume the intent is to make healing the more optimum choice for a healer in group PVP, just as damage is for the DPS role. But it would be a nice change of pace to have the non-optimum choice be situationally correct. Would make players think about their choices rather than spamming combos over and over.

    Plus in a group, that off-nominal choice needs to be effective so that other players aren’t frustrated with a player leaving their role for an opportunistic moment that benefits the group rather than punishes them.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Do we know at this point how much more effective the DPS build is supposed to be compared to the other builds?

    Are we looking at just marginally more effective and does the effectiveness come via combos?

    Meaning general attacks between Class A and Class B are comparable so that PVP works with a slight advantage for the DPS class, but Class A can situationally smoke Class B with proper preparation and timing (ie, player skill).

    And I suppose a Tank or Healer class could potentially do the same with the right circumstances, although I would expect the DPS class to have more tools in the toolbox.

    No real info on that yet. My guess... It will be different flavours of DPS. Maybe a Fire Mage will be the best burst DPS but that can't be sustained. Maybe a Bard will be the best DoT DPS. Maybe a Rouge will be best sustained DPS. I'm sure classes will have something they shine at.
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