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Will we be able to have an option for a council mode in guilds?

DrungleDrungle Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited December 2023 in General Discussion
Hello. My friends and I are curious about the possibility of introducing a council mode as an alternative to the traditional guild master system. The idea is to have the flexibility to switch between the two systems. Ideally players would be able to choose which option they want when creating the guild, and then have the freedom to switch. (With the transition back to guild master requiring a council vote if you are in council mode). Our aim is to distribute the responsibilities of creating, owning, and managing the higher levels of the guild among council members equally, rather than placing it on a single individual. As of now, we haven't encountered a genuine council mode in guilds; typically, there's a guild master with upper officers possessing limited power. We are interested in granting full administrative rights to all council members, alongside implementing voting systems in the game for various decisions.

Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited December 2023
    I'd rather they focus on videogame related development than tinkering with something so unnecessary and pretentious.
    A guild is made by a group of friends. Who is the leader matters little between them.
    The rest of the guild members assume responsibilities based on how much appetite for gaming they have.
    It's easy to settup.
  • DrungleDrungle Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'd rather they focus on videogame related development than tinkering with something so unnecessary and pretentious.
    A guild is made by a group of friends. Who is the leader matters little between them.
    The rest of the guild members assume responsibilities based on how much appetite for gaming they have.
    It's easy to setup.

    Welp, it's a good thing you actually have no say in this as you're not on the dev team. What long nosed statement.. "focus on the videogame related development" - honestly, what else would they be working on? Obviously, they have to get the core systems in place. You really think they are just going to drop everything and move to a council system on the drop of a hat? lolol. Be gone, the adults are at work here.
  • edited December 2023
    So a guild system that allows you to have multiple players as the guild master in the form of a council instead of a singular guild master vs having subordinate ranks with permissions?

    Could just create a guild rank called " The Council"
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    As said above, just name one of the ranks 'Council' and there you go!

    Steven loves guilds, so you can be sure that the guild system will be amazing.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guild_leadership_tools
  • edited December 2023
    I will say though, it could be interesting be able to tie in subordinate ranks to specific ranks. I imagine we'll get tools to create special rank flow charts for leadership roles and divisions within the guild opposed to the traditional linear system. Even having a visual representation in the guild UI would be cool too.
    cfi0d6pssc47.png
  • I will say though, it could be interesting be able to tie in subordinate ranks to specific ranks. I imagine we'll get tools to create special rank flow charts for leadership roles and divisions within the guild opposed to the traditional linear system. Even having a visual representation in the guild UI would be cool too.
    That's how L2 worked :)
    x7mo7tlgke53.png
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Guilds and how they work is a foundation of MMOing that has worked well as it is. There is nothing stopping you from making a guild that has a guild owner that on a charter for the guild has a Council that runs it. You don't need game systems to do this. Why would you make a game risk the social aspect of the game it hangs on? Would be a risk not worth taking.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited December 2023
    Drungle wrote: »
    Obviously, they have to get the core systems in place. You really think they are just going to drop everything and move to a council system on the drop of a hat? lolol. Be gone, the adults are at work here.

    Although George’s delivery can be brusque sometimes, he does have a point.

    Adding a new “council mode” on top of all that’s currently planned by the devs constitutes scope creep.

    It’s an excellent idea for after the game releases, however … as part of a DLC or simply a new a la carte feature.
  • TaerrikTaerrik Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    I will say though, it could be interesting be able to tie in subordinate ranks to specific ranks. I imagine we'll get tools to create special rank flow charts for leadership roles and divisions within the guild opposed to the traditional linear system. Even having a visual representation in the guild UI would be cool too.
    That's how L2 worked :)
    x7mo7tlgke53.png

    Even looking at this. Intrepid can just implement a "Character Sheet" style page for the guild. (Since they commented before about sheets for characters, why not guilds)

    Functionally it would be no different than just assigning ranks to players as the guild master. Except on the Guild sheet there can be the diagram showing rank relations.

    Even then, usually I see this thing handle outside of game in discords

    Maybe this can be a after launch project they work on in 2027
  • DrungleDrungle Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2023
    I probably should have done a better job of writing it in a way where it doesn't imply a timeline. It's more of a "have you considered this before" kind of question. There is no timeline associated with this request. I am a developer by trade so I am definitely familiar with scope/feature creep. I doubt I'm the only one who's thought about it, but I didn't know if the devs had looked into it all so it was worth a post imo.

    Given that AoC is going outside of the box on so many elements, this seems like it would fit as most games have a very typical/standard guild setup situation. This could definitely be a way to branch out, even if it is added after release. Don't forget, the whole point of these forums is to elicit feedback and try to introduce new ideas.

    And keep in mind, they do already have a voting system from the mayor systems that could be iterated on and incorporated into an "official" council mode. So, this wouldn't be recreating the wheel or anything.

    It will depend on how flexible the permissions are, but I still don't think just having a random rank called "Council" will do it. The goal is to have equal power to a GM but for say, 5 people. A guild is made up of friends... typically. But that doesn't mean life doesn't happen. Beef pops up between people. You have a disagreement between the GM and a council guy, the council guy gets the boot and now there's all this drama etc.
    If you have someone who wants to inflict some harm to the guild because some beef pops up between 2 council members, the voting mechanism helps protect the guild from that 1 council member going rogue and totally screwing everyone over (given that in this scenario they have full permissions just like a GM). You're trying to get the best of both worlds, full power split amongst several people, and protection for the guild at the same time.
  • DrungleDrungle Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2023
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Guilds and how they work is a foundation of MMOing that has worked well as it is. There is nothing stopping you from making a guild that has a guild owner that on a charter for the guild has a Council that runs it. You don't need game systems to do this. Why would you make a game risk the social aspect of the game it hangs on? Would be a risk not worth taking.

    I'm confused. What exactly is being risked with this added feature idea? This isn't something that is being forced on people, you would opt into it. Even after creating the guild, if someone was interested, they could switch to a council. If they want to switch back to GM mode then the council would just vote back to GM. So, what and where is the risk? And even if there were some kinds of risk, we have heard several times from Steven that this game is all about risk. Pushing the envelope for the MMO genre etc.
  • this feature isnt even scope creep lmao. a permission system already exists and if someone say it doesnt, then they are saying regular guild members will be able to kick anyone in the guild o:)
  • DrungleDrungle Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    this feature isnt even scope creep lmao. a permission system already exists and if someone say it doesnt, then they are saying regular guild members will be able to kick anyone in the guild o:)

    uhh yeah, I don't even know what this means. You could have countless permission systems existing.. but if they don't do what we are wanting it to do.... then....you ask if it could be implemented as a feature... right? Pretty much like any other existing application in the world today. You leave a review, comment on a github repo for a new feature.. email the developers. You know, standard stuff. If the permissions exist where we can have full GM power for multiple people, then I am all ears and would love to read about it. Point me to it.
  • Drungle wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    this feature isnt even scope creep lmao. a permission system already exists and if someone say it doesnt, then they are saying regular guild members will be able to kick anyone in the guild o:)

    uhh yeah, I don't even know what this means. You could have countless permission systems existing.. but if they don't do what we are wanting it to do.... then....you ask if it could be implemented as a feature... right? Pretty much like any other existing application in the world today. You leave a review, comment on a github repo for a new feature.. email the developers. You know, standard stuff. If the permissions exist where we can have full GM power for multiple people, then I am all ears and would love to read about it. Point me to it.

    i was replying to people saying its scope creep etc, like intrepid would have to develop a completely new system for this, which isnt the case.
  • DrungleDrungle Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    Drungle wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    this feature isnt even scope creep lmao. a permission system already exists and if someone say it doesnt, then they are saying regular guild members will be able to kick anyone in the guild o:)

    uhh yeah, I don't even know what this means. You could have countless permission systems existing.. but if they don't do what we are wanting it to do.... then....you ask if it could be implemented as a feature... right? Pretty much like any other existing application in the world today. You leave a review, comment on a github repo for a new feature.. email the developers. You know, standard stuff. If the permissions exist where we can have full GM power for multiple people, then I am all ears and would love to read about it. Point me to it.

    i was replying to people saying its scope creep etc, like intrepid would have to develop a completely new system for this, which isnt the case.

    Ohhhh okay, gotcha. My bad!
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ol
  • Considering most use a discord.... you can figure this out with the discord.... Your GM may be considered more as a chairman or whatever term you see fit. Unless the GM is a power hungry person who just does as they please, having a GM in game, does not hurt anything. The reason so many have officers or recruiters within the ranks.... because one person can not do it all. Also in adding a council in game that now opens the issue of you need more players to fill said rank just to be formed... so is this council 5 people, 6 people, 10 people? How do they determine which privileges that group has? It is much easier to have 1 person create the group and assign the things those under them can do.
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