Combat Pacing and Animations for Spells and Abilties

My opinion:

Combat Pacing
What makes a fantasy game fun is that I am fantasizing being in a realistic world with unrealistic flora and fauna. That being said, I wouldn't mind, if anything would prefer that I can't swing a giant 2h sword around at unrealistic speeds. I would like to be a ranger that can't shoot at machine gun speeds. There are examples in real life of master short bow archers firing off 5 or more arrows very fast on YouTube and it's super cool to know that that is a reality, but to fire off 10+ arrows in rapid succession is a little corny to me.

Animations
I am still hoping that animations and graphics used for spells and abilities line up with the weapon that is being wielded. As a warrior I would hope that all of my animations reflect the weapon I am using. It wouldn't be immersive to fantasize about carrying a nice 2 handed sword over my shoulder to then swinging my sword and there be a giant glowing hammer of light that CC's my opponent. I am hoping very much that this change is made.

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Comments

Ace1234

Fun>realism for me. If that means rapid fire arrows then im down. Im sure once everything is polished it would be more believable and immersive animation wise.

Depraved

OceanSunwind wrote: »

My opinion:

Combat Pacing
What makes a fantasy game fun is that I am fantasizing being in a realistic world with unrealistic flora and fauna. That being said, I wouldn't mind, if anything would prefer that I can't swing a giant 2h sword around at unrealistic speeds. I would like to be a ranger that can't shoot at machine gun speeds. There are examples in real life of master short bow archers firing off 5 or more arrows very fast on YouTube and it's super cool to know that that is a reality, but to fire off 10+ arrows in rapid succession is a little corny to me.

Animations
I am still hoping that animations and graphics used for spells and abilities line up with the weapon that is being wielded. As a warrior I would hope that all of my animations reflect the weapon I am using. It wouldn't be immersive to fantasize about carrying a nice 2 handed sword over my shoulder to then swinging my sword and there be a giant glowing hammer of light that CC's my opponent. I am hoping very much that this change is made.

If you read this, thanks.
If you engage with this, thank you.

i didnt like the hammer ability on the warrior using a sword, i believe abilities should reflect the weapon you are using...but when it comes to realism or not...things dont have to look real, just believable. a ranger firing 10 arrows in a second, in a world full of magic where people can summon meteors, a world that is called verra, not earth, in another universe, with different laws of physics and a different reality, then thats believable.

Mag7spy

Agreed, fun over realism. (note over exaggeration is clearly not what they are going to do)

George_Black

Agreed.

Diamaht

Yeah, fun over realism also.

However I do agree that weapon appropriate animations would be far better. The magic hammer was a great example of what not to do if it can be reasonably avoided.

Dygz

It's not just unrealistic flora and fauna - Ashes is a High Magic setting.
You should expect lots of stuff that exceed the limitations of real world Physics.

Active Skills, like Hammer Strike, reflect the Archetype/Class; not the Weapon.
Weapon Skills will reflect the equipped Weapon.

OceanSunwind

I think there seems to be a disconnection between immersion and fun. because immersion literally is fun in a fantasy world. the more immersed you are in the game and forget about our reality the better. the more realistic everything is in the high fantasy world the more we forget that, that isn't real.

Mag7spy

OceanSunwind wrote: »

I think there seems to be a disconnection between immersion and fun. because immersion literally is fun in a fantasy world. the more immersed you are in the game and forget about our reality the better. the more realistic everything is in the high fantasy world the more we forget that, that isn't real.

That is not true lol, else mortal online would be fun.

The more realistic you make things the less people enjoy them because you end up adding more unfun mundane elements you relate to IRL and do not enjoy.

TheDarkSorcerer

"2 handed sword over my shoulder to then swinging my sword and there be a giant glowing hammer of light" I called this out in my feedback to them after Warrior Showcase. One of the warrior skills shows a hammer visuals while wielding a sword. Should be updated and reflected to whatever weapon you wield.

OceanSunwind

Mag7spy wrote: »

OceanSunwind wrote: »

I think there seems to be a disconnection between immersion and fun. because immersion literally is fun in a fantasy world. the more immersed you are in the game and forget about our reality the better. the more realistic everything is in the high fantasy world the more we forget that, that isn't real.

That is not true lol, else mortal online would be fun.

The more realistic you make things the less people enjoy them because you end up adding more unfun mundane elements you relate to IRL and do not enjoy.

bad example. mk lore vs mmorpg lore is totally different. We are just civilians who become adventurers, we are not gods.

Mag7spy

OceanSunwind wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

OceanSunwind wrote: »

I think there seems to be a disconnection between immersion and fun. because immersion literally is fun in a fantasy world. the more immersed you are in the game and forget about our reality the better. the more realistic everything is in the high fantasy world the more we forget that, that isn't real.

That is not true lol, else mortal online would be fun.

The more realistic you make things the less people enjoy them because you end up adding more unfun mundane elements you relate to IRL and do not enjoy.

bad example. mk lore vs mmorpg lore is totally different. We are just civilians who become adventurers, we are not gods.

No clue what you are talking about, over realism does not = I'm more immersed and forgetting about things.

Having fun = forgetting about things.

Scarctic

Connecting the real world to some degree is important to create an immersive environment, that's true.
We can bring high fantasy (stuff we want to be real) together with realistic physics. (stuff we know to be real)

Fun is different for many people and you can't define fun with fun...
But the following quote is very true and also states what I believe to be fact:

OceanSunwind wrote: »

I think there seems to be a disconnection between immersion and fun. because immersion literally is fun in a fantasy world. the more immersed you are in the game and forget about reality the better. the more realistic everything is in the high fantasy world the more we forget that, that isn't real.

Certain attributes in game design, like visuals, sounds, and animations just feel good and fun because we can relate to them as optimal. Optimal speed concerning weight, visual sharpness, and effects on the environment.

Realism is not boring if you set up the system in a fun but believable way.
We don't need ultra-long windups like in Eldenring because telegraphing hits won't be a problem if you can't dodge everything anyway... and no creativity in skill animations for the cost of realism isn't the way to go either, but designing it subtle enough is a must in my opinion but most people won't understand if they don't see it in action, so it's about feeling right most of the time.

You hear the devs talking about how combat "feels" all the time and it's important too, but if they decided to use guidelines to guarantee unique and viable concepts then there are certain restrictions and some of the latest iterations we have seen are violating earlier statements about general design guidelines we know.
It's nice to see the iterative process but it's still not the best direction in design.

Can't wait for A2... to verbally demolish all the efforts of the combat design team if it goes on like this.

Scarctic

Dygz wrote: »

It's not just unrealistic flora and fauna - Ashes is a High Magic setting.
You should expect lots of stuff that exceed the limitations of real world Physics.

Active Skills, like Hammer Strike, reflect the Archetype/Class; not the Weapon.
Weapon Skills will reflect the equipped Weapon.

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

"2 handed sword over my shoulder to then swinging my sword and there be a giant glowing hammer of light" I called this out in my feedback to them after Warrior Showcase. One of the warrior skills shows a hammer visuals while wielding a sword. Should be updated and reflected to whatever weapon you wield.

If there wasn't a skill augment system in the game, yes, but to make unique designs possible there have to be specific guidelines for each archetype in place.
Conjuring hammers is probably a better-suited skill for a fighter/summoner class where the weapon skill got augmented with a summoning aspect. And that's how skills should be designed in Ashes, always with the thought in mind:

"Is this unique to the class, can it be used with every weapon and can it be augmented with every archetype aspect".

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