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Having more than master class

Hey everyone,

I've been thinking about the class system in Ashes of Creation, especially the part where we can only master 3 out of the 22 classes like blacksmith, lumberjack, etc. I'm not sure what the official term for these classes is, but you get the idea.

I was wondering, what if we could master more classes, like 6 instead of just 3? And maybe for the classes we don't master, we could still have higher ranks or levels in them. I think it would add more depth to our gameplay and give us more options to explore different skills.

What do you all think about this idea? Would love to hear your thoughts!
♚ ♛ 𝖕𝖔𝖜𝖊𝖗 ♛ ♚ 𝖔𝖛𝖊𝖗𝖜𝖍𝖊𝖑𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖌

Comments

  • good news. They have grand master rank for artisan class.

    a3evqj6u7nz9.png
  • Hey everyone,

    I've been thinking about the class system in Ashes of Creation, especially the part where we can only master 3 out of the 22 classes like blacksmith, lumberjack, etc. I'm not sure what the official term for these classes is, but you get the idea.

    I was wondering, what if we could master more classes, like 6 instead of just 3? And maybe for the classes we don't master, we could still have higher ranks or levels in them. I think it would add more depth to our gameplay and give us more options to explore different skills.

    What do you all think about this idea? Would love to hear your thoughts!

    no. check the other threads about this. the goal isnt to have 1 character do a full crafting loop.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    I could see IS letting people mastering more but that would not happen till the game is seasoned. The game still needs to be player to player supported and the game would need a really good economy. Also a culture of supporting each other on every level of the game. Till then that would even be consider. Biggest goal of this game is bring back a game thats socially played. Players working together.
  • Feeling apart of a player driven economy > Being able to grind crafting as solo content.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 11
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    It's more then an economy. Crafting mats will be all over you can solo but also allot of mats will need to be done with other players. Off world bosses and corrupted areas that will be very difficult to solo. Just to name two, there are others. These player with player supported content will get you the rare mats you need to craft the really good stuff you and other players will want.

    It's not exactly the same thing but it reminds me very much of my days in EQ1 trying to do my epic weapon quest. Took me many weeks. Some items I needed I could solo but other items I needed a few people to help and other items took me being part of a raid. At the end, getting my Epic weapon was a memory I will never forget. Or forget the people that helped me. That's what Ashes is trying to replicate.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    They definitely are greedy.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    They definitely are greedy.

    I found GW2 had the best economy I have seen that was handled in a way that greed was removed. Most fair I have seen in my 23 years of MMOing.
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    If not a player-driven economy, what type of economy do you prefer in your MMORPGs?
    community_management.gif
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 11
    Vaknar wrote: »
    If not a player-driven economy, what type of economy do you prefer in your MMORPGs?
    I prefer to use the NPC-driven economy.
    And then, because I'm a Boomer hippie, carebear - I trade stuff for free with allies.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    True, players "playing the auction house" is a gaming group in itself, but not everyone are bad apples. I'd say like any other game mechanic or area of content the economy is a playground where you also can meet, collaborate or find adversity.

    For example. The most fun thing I did in the SWG-clone The Repopulation was I found a high-leveled resource node noone else knew about. I sold them to one of the top crafters for a certain profession and from that contact I started making group deals and bargains for my whole clan. I felt useful, powerful and great.

    Would love for you to elaborate your thoughts. Noone ever disses on "player-driven economy". Curious!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 11
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )
  • in my opinion based on what I have gathered (pun intended), the economy will probably be more practical than people think in terms of stability. You may still need to put the work more than other days from time to time but I don't see the in-game economy collapsing or anything like that drastically.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )

    Sharing is, indeed, caring :)

    I am like-minded. I just incorporate crafting stuff and sharing with my allies within the term "economy". But thats semantics!
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )

    Sell some high-end stuff to some random players, and it gives you more money/resources (depending on the currency you traded in) to give away to your guildies. Price it competitively, and you'll get a nice steady income that you can use to raise your friends higher. You can still be a friendly carebear AND be part of the player-driven economy.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 12
    I am non-competitive, so...
    Pricing competitvely is probably the very last thing I would ever be interested in while playing an RPG.
    I also am not particularly interested in a steady income - especially not from a player-driven economy.
    Whatever income flow derives from trading with NPCs is typically sufficient - and if it's not and I have to rely on gamers for money - I'm probably not going to be playing that game.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I am non-competitive, so...
    Pricing competitvely is probably the very last thing I would ever be interested in while playing an RPG.
    I also am not particularly interested in a steady income - especially not from a player-driven economy.
    Whatever income flow derives from trading with NPCs is typically sufficient - and if it's not and I have to rely on gamers for money - I'm probably not going to be playing that game.

    From a RP standard it helps create a more realistic and believable world. Where you have different value towards your gear /items. Meaning when you get something rare it is more exciting for your friend to receive it.

    Also it gives more power in the hands of players being important shop keepers for those that want to do that fantasy with trade and social interactions. Competitive is one way to look at it, plenty of people have some kind of end in some form with different taste. But player driven allows more stories to be made by players interested in such things.. Even those that might not be as interested it will have an effect on the whole server and still impact you and I.

    Though this is depending how they do things and it not just being about making gold. But using those resources to building towns, building defenses for castles, etc.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 12
    I don't necessarily play RPGs to RP a "believable world".
    I play RPGs to experience a life similar to the lives of protagonists in a Fantasy novel.
    And Fantasy novels - the ones I care to read - rarely (if ever) focus on pursuing a steady income - especially not with greedy, capitalistic gamers.

    Player-driven stories can be OK. Themebox narrative is probably best, in my view.
    It's fine to have players who want to be shop keepers. I would still most likely ignore their (monetary) trade and deal with NPCs for items. There are other ways to RP with shop keepers than to exhange money with them.

    As usual, I think you are debating something that is off to the side of what I've said...

    I simply responded to the quote below.
    "Feeling a part of a player driven economy > Being able to grind crafting as solo content."
    I didn't suggest that MMORPGs should not have a player-driven economy.
    I just don't agree that it is more fun than other aspects of MMORPGs. It's the least fun for me because I find gamers to be way too greedy and capitalistic for my interests.

    I dunno if I consider delivering resources to Nodes to be "player-driven economy". Especially if I'm essentially delivering those resources to NPCs.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I don't necessarily play RPGs to RP a "believable world".
    I play RPGs to experience a life similar to the lives of protagonists in a Fantasy novel.
    And Fantasy novels - the ones I care to read - rarely (if ever) focus on pursuing a steady income - especially not with greedy, capitalistic gamers.

    Player-driven stories can be OK. Themebox narrative is probably best, in my view.
    It's fine to have players who want to be shop keepers. I would still most likely ignore their (monetary) trade and deal with NPCs for items. There are other ways to RP with shop keepers than to exhange money with them.

    As usual, I think you are debating something that is off to the side of what I've said...

    I simply responded to the quote below.
    "Feeling a part of a player driven economy > Being able to grind crafting as solo content."
    I didn't suggest that MMORPGs should not have a player-driven economy.
    I just don't agree that it is more fun than other aspects of MMORPGs. It's the least fun for me because I find gamers to be way too greedy and capitalistic for my interests.

    I dunno if I consider delivering resources to Nodes to be "player-driven economy". Especially if I'm essentially delivering those resources to NPCs.

    I'm not really a trader, I prefer earning my own stuff so its less fun for me personally. But its like watering the grass roots kinds of thing that helps grow a forest (ie social interactions)

    Those interactions can be with players or they can be towards the nodes that players control, grow and upkeep. Though you are giving it to a npc for node elements, players are the ones that control them and guide their direction. The same way you can hamper their growth with PvP. It can create a much more advanced loop that can effect the state of the world /players, on paper at the moment.

    One example would be a new kingdom raising up after winning a war but a neighboring one wants to stop it from being able to grow strong and you have raiders attacking caverns from their much needed resources. Both to grow the node but also materials to trade and sell to other players to make it become an attractive place to have your home, to craft, to interact with other players. All notions that will help grow a node and make it stronger.

    Though trading as a gameplay loop might not be for us, the other elements of social interaction it brings can be a positive for us kind of thing.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 12
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Those interactions can be with players or they can be towards the nodes that players control, grow and upkeep. Though you are giving it to a npc for node elements, players are the ones that control them and guide their direction. The same way you can hamper their growth with PvP. It can create a much more advanced loop that can effect the state of the world /players, on paper at the moment.
    Players can guide and direct them.
    But, AFAIK, players do not set the prices for NPC trade. So, I consider that NPC-driven economy, rather than player-driven economy.

    Mag7spy wrote: »
    One example would be a new kingdom raising up after winning a war but a neighboring one wants to stop it from being able to grow strong and you have raiders attacking caverns from their much needed resources. Both to grow the node but also materials to trade and sell to other players to make it become an attractive place to have your home, to craft, to interact with other players. All notions that will help grow a node and make it stronger.
    Irrelevant to anything I've said, as far as I can tell.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Though trading as a gameplay loop might not be for us, the other elements of social interaction it brings can be a positive for us kind of thing.
    Trading as a gameplay loop is fine.
    What I said is that monetary exganges with other players is the least fun for me - out of any other activity in MMORPGs.
    In repsonse to the claim that "Feeling a part of a player driven economy > Being able to grind crafting as solo content."

    Monetary exchange with gamers is rarely a positive experience for me.
    Plenty of other positive and more fun social interactions available in MMORPGs.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    Doesnt like pvp
    doesnt like player-driven economy
    maybe, just thinking, ashes/mmos is nothing for you?
  • Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )

    oh, so do you prefer communism? capitalism is I give you something in exchange for something. You aren't forced to say yes. you can decide it's a good deal. if you plant tomatoes and give me a few for free so I can make a food buff, that's still capitalism. surprise, surprise.

    anyways, nothing is stopping you to give your friends / guildies things for free, and nothing is stopping them from giving you things for free. you can still get everything you are looking for. you can still trade tomatoes for pineapples, or for a sword.
  • ThokanThokan Member
    edited January 13
    Geeze. Just because Dygz doesnt want to play the "Auction House game" there is no need to try and prove him wrong with mental gymnastics or tell him to play another game.

    He is wholly correct in his statements.

    Depraved wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )

    oh, so do you prefer communism? capitalism is I give you something in exchange for something. You aren't forced to say yes. you can decide it's a good deal. if you plant tomatoes and give me a few for free so I can make a food buff, that's still capitalism. surprise, surprise.

    anyways, nothing is stopping you to give your friends / guildies things for free, and nothing is stopping them from giving you things for free. you can still get everything you are looking for. you can still trade tomatoes for pineapples, or for a sword.

    Quite an anal analogy. You are describing any kind of market. Thats not capitalism.

    He's just experiencing an MMORPG without any effort to "make money" and just sharing with his friends. That's obviously not communism. Or did your parents force you to pay for your morning cereals as a child?

    No, capitalism is when you have two cows...
  • DepravedDepraved Member
    edited January 13
    Thokan wrote: »
    Geeze. Just because Dygz doesnt want to play the "Auction House game" there is no need to try and prove him wrong with mental gymnastics or tell him to play another game.

    He is wholly correct in his statements.

    Depraved wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )

    oh, so do you prefer communism? capitalism is I give you something in exchange for something. You aren't forced to say yes. you can decide it's a good deal. if you plant tomatoes and give me a few for free so I can make a food buff, that's still capitalism. surprise, surprise.

    anyways, nothing is stopping you to give your friends / guildies things for free, and nothing is stopping them from giving you things for free. you can still get everything you are looking for. you can still trade tomatoes for pineapples, or for a sword.

    Quite an anal analogy. You are describing any kind of market. Thats not capitalism.

    He's just experiencing an MMORPG without any effort to "make money" and just sharing with his friends. That's obviously not communism. Or did your parents force you to pay for your morning cereals as a child?

    No, capitalism is when you have two cows...

    he complained about capitalism so I just asked him he preferred communism. if you don't want capitalism, what would be the alternative? i mean maybe we should have feudalism since this is a medieval fantasy game xDD


    also, I was just talking about free market. an npc market would probably not be a free market...but I guess we have both in aoc.
  • Thokan wrote: »
    Geeze. Just because Dygz doesnt want to play the "Auction House game" there is no need to try and prove him wrong with mental gymnastics or tell him to play another game.

    He is wholly correct in his statements.

    Depraved wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think of crafting with others to be "economy" because I do that stuff for free.
    I consider "player-driven economy" to be about gamers pursuing capitalism.

    I can feel useful and great providing needed items and utlilities for my allies without selling stuff to them (or other players). And, I have zero interest in feeling powerful with regard to any economy.
    I play RPGs to feel like I'm living in a Fantasy novel and I don't enjoy reading Fantasy novels that focus on the protagonists striving to be economically powerful.

    I don't think I've ever sold stuff to other players when I play D&D (in 30+ years).
    Buying and selling is done via NPCs. That's what I prefer when I play RPGs.
    (But, I'm old... :p )

    oh, so do you prefer communism? capitalism is I give you something in exchange for something. You aren't forced to say yes. you can decide it's a good deal. if you plant tomatoes and give me a few for free so I can make a food buff, that's still capitalism. surprise, surprise.

    anyways, nothing is stopping you to give your friends / guildies things for free, and nothing is stopping them from giving you things for free. you can still get everything you are looking for. you can still trade tomatoes for pineapples, or for a sword.

    Quite an anal analogy. You are describing any kind of market. Thats not capitalism.

    He's just experiencing an MMORPG without any effort to "make money" and just sharing with his friends. That's obviously not communism. Or did your parents force you to pay for your morning cereals as a child?

    No, capitalism is when you have two cows...

    Player driven economy isn't just auction house. If that was the case it wouldn't really be player driven economy and it just be an action house. Though the auction house is part of it crafting, gathering node development (needing materials to upgrade / building things), and any thing else that requires mats to build if sieges need it for example are all included.

    Even the way the auction house works has an effect on all other content an social elements in the game do to needing different mats and needing to travel.


    To ignore all the design elements and boil it down to a auction house is disingenuous or you just dont understand how the designs work together and are having a bad take.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 17
    Depraved wrote: »
    oh, so do you prefer communism? capitalism is I give you something in exchange for something. You aren't forced to say yes. you can decide it's a good deal. if you plant tomatoes and give me a few for free so I can make a food buff, that's still capitalism. surprise, surprise.
    .
    Depends on your definition of communism.
    Originally, I identified as communist - mostly taking the meaning from the concept of hippies living on a commune. Later, it appeared that violent revolution is an expected component of communism and I'm a carebear, so I think I'm more socialist than communist. Also, I dunno that I'm necessarily a fan of everything being owned by the state.
    Capitalism has a for profit component - which I abhor - especially with gamers in multiplayer video games.

    Depraved wrote: »
    anyways, nothing is stopping you to give your friends / guildies things for free, and nothing is stopping them from giving you things for free. you can still get everything you are looking for. you can still trade tomatoes for pineapples, or for a sword
    True, but... irrelevant.

    As a reply to: "Feeling apart of a player driven economy > Being able to grind crafting as solo content."
    I vehemently disagree.
    I didn't state that a player-driven economy stops me from free trading. I stated that feeling a part of a player driven is not greater than being able to grind crafting solo.
    I would much rather grind crafting solo (or do just about anything else in an MMORPG) than participate in the player driven economy. I strive to ignore the player driven economy as much as possible and instead focus on the NPC driven economy.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 17
    Ehrgeiz wrote: »
    Doesnt like pvp
    doesnt like player-driven economy
    maybe, just thinking, ashes/mmos is nothing for you?
    Haha!
    You are about a 1.25 years late to reaching that conclusion.
    If you are relatively new to the Ashes Forums...
    Welcome!!!

    (I enjoy PvP sometimes. I abhor non-consensual PvP.
    And, I am an MMORPG fan, specifically; not necessarily a fan of generic MMOs)
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Obviously I am 'player-economy positive' but I also agree with Dygz completely in a specific way.

    If your game economy feels too player driven to someone like Dygz, I consider that it hasn't been built correctly. In the early days of a game, I can see that there might be holes and friction points that the Economics team has to patch and smooth out, but by year 2, I'd hope/expect that someone like Dygz would be able to seamlessly view whatever stall or Auction House situation to be sensible or stable enough, in a given Node, that any strong flux is because of a world event that they can perceive, rather than 'someone like me figuring out how to fleece people or game the system and throwing the market into chaos for a big profit'.

    Also a repeat of my perspective on 'mastering more classes': 2 each, all the way down, please, if not set in stone yet, but that's just rampant speculation, having seen not a single meaningful item in context yet.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • nanfoodle wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I mean - I abhor player-driven economy.... probably at the bottom of my interests in an MMORPG... even below PvP. It's not a deal-breaker... but I try to avoid player-driven economy as much as possible.
    Gamers are too greedy for my liking.

    They definitely are greedy.

    I found GW2 had the best economy I have seen that was handled in a way that greed was removed. Most fair I have seen in my 23 years of MMOing.

    Back in the day SWG had a player driven economie and there where unwritten rules. For example medic's where standing in popular hubs and entertainers in cantina's.. they all asked the same price or a bit lower but never more.. they would simply not get bought then. I remember one of the best buffs for living was around 10k and it was always advertised as 10k unless you where a guildy
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