Class changing In AoC

I realize that some of the MMO player-base has different preferences when it comes to class changes so I would ask that you critique this based off it’s usefulness and not your individual preference.

I think that Ashes of Creation would benefit from using a grandfathering method to allow characters to switch classes only. This grandfathering method would be locked to players until they pass a certain late-game level signifying they have played that class combination enough to really learn it and experience it’s play-style.

After reaching this thresh-hold a player would have the option of having their progress reset and going back to level 5-10 with the new class that they selected to essentially replay the game with a new class combination. This would allow players to also switch to a NEW class combination etc without any of the previous classes benefits.

Using a system like this would allow players to sacrifice their current progress in the game if they wish to switch to a new class that is released in the future instead of starting from the beginning. This would require players to actually play the class they choose in the beginning while allowing them some late game freedom. Using a progress and class sacrifice will make it a serious decision and not something you cannot simply do willy nilly and repeatedly.

To insure that AoC doesn’t do something similar to Final Fantasy 15 where after restarting the play-through everything dies in one hit to your amazing gear features like level requirements and stat requirements could be applies to gear, features and more. This would keep the difficulty of the new class the same as the first time you played the game. Not making the game any easier for players on their second “play-through” but allowing players some interchangeability as they progress through the game and finish their experience with their class would not only give casual players some grace but add to the immersion of the game.

Overall I see this as a way for players in AoC to experience every class combination they want without having to make 200 alts, come up with 200 different usernames and rebuild their reputation 200 times.
This may be a world with consequences but nothings stopping the mage from picking up a bow. ?
Also this is the first time I’ve like ever posted a idea etc on any forums so if there’s some special etiquette I didn’t follow I’m sowwy.

Comments

  • I really like the idea of not having your progress wiped because you re-roll. Have I done it in past MMOs and not complained about it? Yes, because that was the norm. Will I not play AoC if they do it? No. However, we are at an integral part of the development process and consider this me throwing my support to some sort of progress-transfer between characters. Obviously, with correct checks and balances.

    If a late game system isn't introduced to accommodate this topic, another possible solution would maybe be something similar to what GW1 did with their "PvP characters".

    These were generic characters which you could freely choose between, and instantly change, that came at max level and had all the max level skills. You couldn't take these characters off of the instanced PvP island. Similarly to that, perhaps there could be "try out" mechanic that would allow players to mess around with non-permanent characters of various class compositions without being able to impact the live world. This would allow players to get a feel for the various class combinations, identify a few favorites, get a feeling for the class design, without investing hours and hours into the progress of ONE character.

    But you're absolutely right- the thought of having 200 alts is just.. well, unimaginable and I'd suspect that with the development and resources going into the classes/animations/etc. they definitely want people to feel the variety and experience it.
  • In my opinion I would prefer no class changes at all, if you wish to have a new class then make a new character. I believe this would limit meta builds as players will be locked to their class they chose and prevent them from changing unless they want to dedicate themselves to a new character.
  • No to class changes.
    This ultimately would devastate the risk/reward for player's decision in every aspect of the game.
    Class changing devalue's the meaning of a player's decision tremendously.

    Having the capacity to alter your capacity on a whim annihilates progress in every sense of the word, world, in reality and thus in-game.

    The BEST part about variety in an MMO is that you get to feel another another perspective by interacting with your friends and community based on how THEY made their decisions, rather than being all things to all people.

    Choosing to be everything means you will choose to be nothing.

    Being faced with real decisions, that will mean something in the future is what makes progress actually progress.

    That is part of what an MMO in the past 10 years has lost, the sense of real and meaningful progress.

    I hope Ashes can bring back that REAL sense of meaningful progress
  • I'd prefer no class change. It destroys the class identity of the character. Leveling all classes, even if you don't enjoy them, becomes a part of your character's progression and as a player, you will be expected to do so. I don't want to feel like i'm less of a player because i don't want to level x class(s). I feel like character advancement should be centered around the playstyle you choose. I also don't want to be pressured into playing a class because it's optimal for a task. It would suck to always have to be a rogue every time we go into a dungeon because a rogue is better for x reasons. I could already see it being mandatory to be a rogue while doing most tasks if they have invisibility/stealth.

    I understand how allowing multiple classes on one character seems like only a plus and for some it is but I do not enjoy it. I prefer to pick my playstyle at the beginning of the game and not be pressured to play others to advance my character.
  • I agree partly with the people that do not want whole sale class changes. So someone who Picks a Tank as their Primary Class should not be able to chance their Primary class. With that said the Secondary class should be allowed to be changed at any time. So if I pick Summoner as my 2nd class and do not like it setup with tank I should be able to pick Cleric with Tank.

    Also you should have to level the 2nd class. But it should level at 5 times the XP of the normal speed up to the max level of any of your 2nd classes. So if I had Mage up to level 20 I can level Cleric at 5 times the speed of Mage up to level 20, I will lose my 5 times XP pace after I reached level 20 but thats OK. I will get that XP increase if I want to level another 2nd class.

    This setup will allow me to experience and choose which I like more in the 8 different Classes based off of tank without making an alt with the base class of Tank. It also makes it so the first class is slower than the following 7 but requires that I level the other 7 to learn the new class and abilities without being a huge job. It does require sometime but when leveling at 5 times the speed its going to take a 5th of the time. So if leveling from 20 to 21 for example takes 5 hours, now it will only take an hour. Or for a better example if it takes 250 hours to level from 1 to max level it will only take 50 hours for each of the 7 other classes. Yea thats 350 total hours for ALL 2nd classes, BUT in 550 hours of game time you will have 8 classes on 1 character.

    So to Summarize:

    No changing Your Main/Base Class - You need an Alt with another Main/Base class
    Yes you can Change your 2nd Class/Augmentation can be changed to ANY of the other 7 Classes
    Yes you have to level your 2nd Class/Augmentation Class BUT XP needs to be 5 times the amount of XP until you reach the same level as your highest 2nd class
  • My 2 cents,
    Main class - Unchangeable
    Race - Unchangable
    Seconadary class - Changable once a month

    Done.

    Ashes is supposed to be a world with consquences after all, what the point of having consquences to
    your actions of you can merely change them when you done like the result?
  • I say no to base class changes. And yes to 2ndary as long as it can't be done wily nilly or on the fly. Make it a chore or something to make it a thought out choice.
  • I'm pretty concerned about the dominance of a few meta builds as well- and if class locks are introduced as a way to counter that than I support it.

    Especially if there's a little tutorial/bubble where players can play around with non-permanent characters to experiment with the various combinations.
  • To quote Steven:
    "In my opinion if ever there is an atmosphere created where there is only a certain amount of classes are just the hands down top classes, then we have failed in our balancing ability. "
    And teh 2nd thing i want to point out is that they want to give classes a situational better jobfeel. Performing better in different scenarios.
    So leaning on those two quotes, I want to be able to change secondary classes regularily, maybe with an ingame fee, maybe wowstyle having two sets you can change up in a town.
    I just don't think they would introduce so much diversity without us being able to experience it all.
  • [quote quote=5939]My 2 cents,
    Main class – Unchangeable
    Race – Unchangable
    Seconadary class – Changable once a month

    Done.

    Ashes is supposed to be a world with consquences after all, what the point of having consquences to
    your actions of you can merely change them when you done like the result?

    [/quote]

    Yes Ashes should be a world of consequences. I Would also say that if there is a limited change on someone's secondary class I think most people are cool with that. However You need some way to allow players to play with the different secondary classes at lower levels without waiting a month to chance your secondary class. For example an test instances where you have a test dummy to attack and an NPC that will change your second class. I also dont mind having 2 specs people can switch between either one for PVE and another for PVP.
  • I agree with all the previously statements about being able to change your secondary class, compared to your primary class which shouldn't be changed.

    I'm on the mindset of the primary class sort of describing you, like if a person likes to do support or heal, would be around the lines of a cleric or bard (which I'm sure the level of diversity in your class will be wide, allowing you to not just to support. I'm just going from the perspective of what they are considered to be, healer/buff supporters etc.). Where as the secondary is more detailing what you wish to be, increasing your skill set for using magic or physical damage ( secondary branches of lets say a mage or a warrior).

    So I think, like the majority, that the primary should remain the same where as your secondary class can be interchangeable. This giving the variety one character has for different attacks or skills dealing with the combinations when you change classes for different events or quests. As well as not making it so that one character can be undefeatable because of maxed classes ( if there is a max, or whether this is possible) in all combinations.

    Even still I wouldn't mind the idea either of having just one of each, that way it builds your character even more as you progress with said classes. Mainly because I don't mind having several alts, I like the uniqueness of each character I make instead of making 1 character have all the power. Each is to their own.
  • [quote quote=5918]In my opinion I would prefer no class changes at all, if you wish to have a new class then make a new character. I believe this would limit meta builds as players will be locked to their class they chose and prevent them from changing unless they want to dedicate themselves to a new character.

    [/quote]

    Basically this

    I say this as someone who hates the grind of any MMORPG, but part of a good MMO is developing the character. Games which allow you freely switch classes are to "easy" from the standpoint that part of a MMO is building that character from scratch.

    I think it creates more problems than it solves. Because honestly, creating an alt does exactly what the OP's system does.

    edit - I'm even against being able to change your secondary class (unless it is in some way punitive). If every class is kind of the same then it doesn't matter, but if the game offers true character customization (I'm hoping) then secondary classes will be a very distinct way to differentiate your character. If you could freely swap that around then it makes having full character customization useless as everyone can kind of quickly play around with different builds and conform to whatever the current meta is.
  • Class change for me is a luxury good so in my opinion the 1st class should never be able to change but since there are 8 different evoloves and it will be hard to spot the right decision at the 1st time we should be able to change the secondary class.
    I agree with Deathsproxy that changing ur 2nd class once a month for free is a good thing and maybe you can add an item for class change to the luxury shop so if people really need it they can support the game and this option won't make it pay2win so it sounds fair to me .
  • I agree with DeathsProxy, seconadary class should be changeable. I think it would keep your characters identity and let you try out more of what game offers. I also like to go against the flow, so for example if a lot of players would have chosen the same skill path, I would want to have the option to change mine to have bigger variety between players.
  • If main and secondary classes have different levels, we should be able to change secondary, but it should reset to level 1. Otherwise, I prefer no class change at all.
  • I absolutely love the idea of having the option to change your secondary class! I think that would be really cool and allow you to get a taste of what each class has to offer but without completely changing a characters whole play style. This needs to be a thing!
  • As someone who loved FF11 and FF14, i personally have zero issue with changing your main class. All that means is you can fill a role that needs filling. /However/ from my impression of this game so far, it does not seem like that would be appropriate here. Just lorewise, since this seems to be at least a semi realistic fantasy world.

    The only way I'd see that being okay is if you were to switch to a profession that took a similar skillset as yours. For example, if you're a fire mage, maybe you could become some type of healing mage?

    If you're a sword and shield user, why wouldn't you be able to pick up a bow. or perhaps a use a spear?
    It's a thought I only just came up with when reading this thread, so it's not fleshed out in the slightest.

    On to my main point though, which is what I wanted to post about here :

    I think the main class should not be changeable.
    I believe that if there are sub-jobs, you should be allowed to study each of them, and build them in the way you wish to. For example: Say I am a warrior, and I have the option to sub-job in Buffs/Tankierness/Dmgness

    Each spec should have its own mini tree that can be leveled however the player chooses, and the player should be able to level each of these and be able to switch between them maybe once or twice a day? This way, I am able to (at the very least) alter my playstyle to suit what is needed. Even if it is only minimal.
    So if I am in a raid party and terrorizing a village, and our healer teammate isnt around, I may choose to bring some scrolls or something to help the party using buffs. I am still a sword and shield guy, but I can also have some team utility. The next day, if we plan to go hunt a dragon or what have you, I will bring my extra heavy armor and use my tankier spec. Again, I am still a sword and shield guy, but I can alter my character slightly to better suit the situation.

    I do not believe something like this would drastically change a character in the way that a full class reset would. And it would bring a little flexibility to how you play your character.

    Again though, these are unfinished thoughts, I just figured I'd write them down and see what the rest of you think ^^

    ~ Cheers --- CB
  • i one up this it also would make sense taking a whole month aka 1 in game year to be able to change our subclass what but your primary and race should be unchangeable!
  • Was kind of more on the side of changing classes being something you can do whenever you want, but I tend to agree with a lot of people here about locking in classes.
  • Primary classes should definitely be locked, and then for the secondary class... If we followed DeathsProxy's idea, then if you reroll your second class and hate it, then you're stuck for a month, so you should have the option to get a FREE change per month, or... be allowed to pay a certain amount of in-game currency to be able to reset your secondary combat skill.

    Since if you decide you don't enjoy playing as the character you choose, the option of deleting it and starting again is practically the same as resetting primary skill, except you have to go through a tutorial if there is one for this game.
  • I'd like to see classes be completely locked simply for the encouragement to play through multiple times. I like rolling multiple characters on different classes, but games like FFXIV that allow class changing remove any reward to doing so.
  • I did liked FFXV set up for class and do admit I was thinking about it as I heard about second archetype. I do believe that the second archetype should be something you can switch around to your liking or be lore related and then have to be found in different node. I would though love to seek for specific archetype around world as they have suggest it would be doable with EQ Next. Like having 8 classic archetype from usual class and then have maybe 4 to 12 rare archetype which can only be unlock on a specific character.
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