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Learning from Throne and Liberty

Hello!

I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

Comments

  • Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    its up to players to work together and beat the big bad mega guild. There should be nothing done in game to create weird rule sets. Players created that issue and they need to solve it.

    Competitive pvp elements for wars are capped so having a larger guild doesn't mean you can bring more people in.

    Communication is key to being able to talk to people (which is why i advocate for global chat) The more split of people are from talking to others, the more of this being a issue will happen. Since mega builds will have a much easier to communicating together.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Agreed. I have made suggestions regarding this.
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    its up to players to work together and beat the big bad mega guild. There should be nothing done in game to create weird rule sets. Players created that issue and they need to solve it.

    Competitive pvp elements for wars are capped so having a larger guild doesn't mean you can bring more people in.

    Communication is key to being able to talk to people (which is why i advocate for global chat) The more split of people are from talking to others, the more of this being a issue will happen. Since mega builds will have a much easier to communicating together.

    Yes, I've always thought that but the reality is that the servers have a limitation of players and if a large part of them form that mega guild, the rest of mortals can't do much.

    I understand that it is freedom of the players and that is part of the beauty of a MMORPG. But at the same time it is limiting for the rest, don't you think?
  • Nodes have limited numbers, so that would curb mega guilds somewhat. No one wants to be a drone for the empire. And even if they do work together they will have different motives living in a different node. And a large, unfocused guild is less effective than a small focus guild when pvp limits are somewhat capped.
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?
    No :)
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    no teleports will help a Lot
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • DezmerizingDezmerizing Member
    edited February 2
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    Honestly, this is probably my primary concern (in combination with freeholds) with the game... However, this is - as I've understood things - intended by design. Steven seems to want this to be a part of the world building and server development, and thus it wont be avoided by the dev team even if it potentially could be.

    I'll be honest, I have avoided games that have these features like the plague as I absolutely dread the thought of mega guilds bullying small guilds away from content.... so AoC will be my introduction to it - and I very much hope I'll change my mind about it when I get to try it. :X
    apr6xzdxo10r.png
  • HughJardon wrote: »
    Nodes have limited numbers, so that would curb mega guilds somewhat. No one wants to be a drone for the empire. And even if they do work together they will have different motives living in a different node. And a large, unfocused guild is less effective than a small focus guild when pvp limits are somewhat capped.

    If a megaguild owns two nodes, i don't think why someone wouldn't agree to be the "drone". Being a drone give you other benefits.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited February 2
    This was a problem even in DAoC. Some servers two factions would align to the point the 3rd faction would just dwindle in players as they hopped to another server.

    ESO even had the same problem on a larger scale. In DAoC our underdog faction learned to do hit and run tactics. Even though we were the smaller of the 3 factions. We ended up doing really well. In time our side got momentum and dominated.

    I am interested to see how the community here will work together to overcome problems like this. There are more tools today to communicate outside the game.
  • BarabBarab Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    As someone who has survived in a smaller guild fighting the mega guilds and their alliances in past PvP centric MMOs this issue will be unavoidable in AoC. It's just the nature of the beast that very large alliances will form on any said server. Guilds and alliances typically choose the path of least resistance or as we call if "nut cup" out of fear of "losing" with whatever that consists of within any MMO game.

    The good news is hopefully in a more player driven content MMO like AoC is that guilds, alliances, nodes etc will rise and fall and rinse and repeat due to the nature of human behavior.

    We'll see how it plays out, but just thinking out loud some mechanics that could help avoid static one alliances one server situations could be something along the lines of...

    -Friendly fire on some level as mechanic

    -Epic competitive objectives that benefit on the micro level creating tension, jealousy perhaps, or force greed among working guilds/alliances

    -I know this will never happen with AoC but have one character per account goes a long way in creating in game player responsibility leading to potential drama in with any said large mega alliance
    The Dünir Hold Mithril Warhammers,Thanes of the Keelhaul, Dünir scourge of the oceans, Warhammer First Fleet Command of The Dünzenkell Nation, friends to the Dünir Dwarves of the Dünhold.Hammers High!
  • Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    join the alliance?

    also, pve in tl is coop, i dont see how u cant enjoy the game when anything any other person does helps you. the only thing u not gonna et is boon stones, probably. that prevents u from playing the game?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited February 2
    I'm curious to see how Guild caps and the perks that are different for small Guilds v large Guilds - in addition to different objectives for disparate Nodes - will cause Mega-Guilds to fracture.
  • Sarkgp wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    its up to players to work together and beat the big bad mega guild. There should be nothing done in game to create weird rule sets. Players created that issue and they need to solve it.

    Competitive pvp elements for wars are capped so having a larger guild doesn't mean you can bring more people in.

    Communication is key to being able to talk to people (which is why i advocate for global chat) The more split of people are from talking to others, the more of this being a issue will happen. Since mega builds will have a much easier to communicating together.

    Yes, I've always thought that but the reality is that the servers have a limitation of players and if a large part of them form that mega guild, the rest of mortals can't do much.

    I understand that it is freedom of the players and that is part of the beauty of a MMORPG. But at the same time it is limiting for the rest, don't you think?

    If more than half the server decides to joint he game guild to win that is full care bear at that point. Keep your head down and wait for them to implode.

    THere is nothing you can do if almost everyone on the server decides to only pk / war other players. It is a trash situation where you are very very unlucky imo.

    I had a similar situation in nw where i had like 150-180 member guild and i was fighting like a 500 man zerg guild with more active people and ended up winning. Though went we left the server they took over and it ended up dying (do to lack of game / server growth).

    Though this is a issue less likely in AoC because of their server size is just bigger. If they someone managed to get the share amount of people on that server to be in one guild and not pvp that is god level politics or a potential "PvE" server.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited February 2
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    its up to players to work together and beat the big bad mega guild. There should be nothing done in game to create weird rule sets. Players created that issue and they need to solve it.

    Competitive pvp elements for wars are capped so having a larger guild doesn't mean you can bring more people in.

    Communication is key to being able to talk to people (which is why i advocate for global chat) The more split of people are from talking to others, the more of this being a issue will happen. Since mega builds will have a much easier to communicating together.

    Yes, I've always thought that but the reality is that the servers have a limitation of players and if a large part of them form that mega guild, the rest of mortals can't do much.

    I understand that it is freedom of the players and that is part of the beauty of a MMORPG. But at the same time it is limiting for the rest, don't you think?

    If more than half the server decides to joint he game guild to win that is full care bear at that point. Keep your head down and wait for them to implode.

    THere is nothing you can do if almost everyone on the server decides to only pk / war other players. It is a trash situation where you are very very unlucky imo.

    I had a similar situation in nw where i had like 150-180 member guild and i was fighting like a 500 man zerg guild with more active people and ended up winning. Though went we left the server they took over and it ended up dying (do to lack of game / server growth).

    Though this is a issue less likely in AoC because of their server size is just bigger. If they someone managed to get the share amount of people on that server to be in one guild and not pvp that is god level politics or a potential "PvE" server.

    In DAoC when things got out of hand like that, people would server jump, same with ESO, faction swapping or finding a server that your faction was doing well, is where people went. Each game had their own way of doing player retention. I cant wait to see how IS deals with this. It is a problem but it can be mitigated. This is more of a thing, we have to trust that IS will support all players, even ones that are not having fun. I have always been in the make due category and try to see how I can turn a loss into a win in the end.
  • nanfoodle wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Hello!

    I am an active Throne and Liberty player and the game has several problems. The important thing is that one of them can also occur in Ashes of Creation and I would like to know what the community thinks.

    Currently in Throne and Liberty clans can have a maximum of 3 allies, creating alliances of 4 clans. But this is easily avoided by creating mega alliances outside the game system and completely dominating the server, causing other clans to not be able to enjoy the content.

    I have always thought that this part is nice because it creates lore in the servers and wars between clans, but the reality is different because many players leave the game for this reason because they have no options to do anything against a tryhard mega alliance.

    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?

    its up to players to work together and beat the big bad mega guild. There should be nothing done in game to create weird rule sets. Players created that issue and they need to solve it.

    Competitive pvp elements for wars are capped so having a larger guild doesn't mean you can bring more people in.

    Communication is key to being able to talk to people (which is why i advocate for global chat) The more split of people are from talking to others, the more of this being a issue will happen. Since mega builds will have a much easier to communicating together.

    Yes, I've always thought that but the reality is that the servers have a limitation of players and if a large part of them form that mega guild, the rest of mortals can't do much.

    I understand that it is freedom of the players and that is part of the beauty of a MMORPG. But at the same time it is limiting for the rest, don't you think?

    If more than half the server decides to joint he game guild to win that is full care bear at that point. Keep your head down and wait for them to implode.

    THere is nothing you can do if almost everyone on the server decides to only pk / war other players. It is a trash situation where you are very very unlucky imo.

    I had a similar situation in nw where i had like 150-180 member guild and i was fighting like a 500 man zerg guild with more active people and ended up winning. Though went we left the server they took over and it ended up dying (do to lack of game / server growth).

    Though this is a issue less likely in AoC because of their server size is just bigger. If they someone managed to get the share amount of people on that server to be in one guild and not pvp that is god level politics or a potential "PvE" server.

    In DAoC when things got out of hand like that, people would server jump, same with ESO, faction swapping or finding a server that your faction was doing well, is where people went. Each game had their own way of doing player retention. I cant wait to see how IS deals with this. It is a problem but it can be mitigated. This is more of a thing, we have to trust that IS will support all players, even ones that are not having fun. I have always been in the make due category and try to see how I can turn a loss into a win in the end.

    When i played shadowbane towards the end of its life cycle i fought some Chinese guild that took over the entire world and destroyed all NA places one by one and ddos'd the server until we had to swap servers lmao.

    Our solution was on other server all na pk's them on site and did not let them get a foothold on the server. Though i stopped playing soon after game was too old.
  • OtrOtr Member
    Better go to TL forum and make a "Learning from Ashes of Creation" thread.
  • Otr wrote: »
    Better go to TL forum and make a "Learning from Ashes of Creation" thread.

    I think you have misunderstood the topic ^^
  • OtrOtr Member
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    Do you think it can be avoided somehow?
    Yes, AoC is doing it already.
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