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Massive combat still looks too colorful and flashy

ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
edited February 3 in General Discussion
When it comes to skill and battle effects, the game still looks too colorful and flashy, and especially in massive PvP you can see that. IMHO, this is something that affect the gameplay in several ways, but also how the whole scene looks. Here some points to consider and that might help to generate a more comfortable atmosphere for the player, both in terms of gameplay and also in terms of look & feel:

Use More Muted Color Palette for Effects: Using less saturated or darker colors for skill effects can reduce visual fatigue and make it easier for players to focus on strategy and gameplay mechanics without distractions. This also helps ensure that special effects do not dominate the visual scene, especially in massive combat situations where many players are using abilities simultaneously.

Visual Differentiation by Class: Limiting the more flashy and colorful visual effects to specific classes, like mages or other magical classes, can add a layer of visual strategy, allowing players to quickly identify the type of threat or support a particular class might be providing on the battlefield. For non-magical classes, such as archers, effects could be more subtle or realistic, focusing on showcasing the skill without overwhelming the scene. IMHO, skills like that flashy green arrow-machine gun from the Archer is too much, also it looks more like a Star Wars blaster than a medieval set.

Optimization of Effects for Massive PvP: Consider optimizing effects in massive PvP situations, possibly with a setting that allows players to adjust the intensity or visibility of certain visual effects. This could include options to simplify skill effects in high-player combat situations, reducing the number of flashes, particles, and other graphical elements that can make the action hard to follow.

Visual Feedback and Gameplay: While aesthetics are important, it is crucial that any adjustments to visual effects do not compromise players' ability to read the game and react appropriately. Each skill should have a clear visual indicator of its area of effect, casting time, and immediate impact, so players can make informed decisions in the heat of the moment.

Implementing these changes will require a careful balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. It would be beneficial for the development team to collect more community feedback and conduct iterative testing to find the right balance that satisfies most players. This feedback and adjustment process is crucial for creating a gaming experience that is both visually appealing and solidly playable.

Finally, I think a good example of how effects should look in a game where large scale PvP is an important part of it, is Throne and Liberty. Look this 2000v1500 player Siege and how, even where you have thousands of players, effects don't cover all the screen. They are not that colorful and more subtle:

https://youtu.be/Mq6iRarVWKA?si=ixq1pfqfLl3e7sSx
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Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Expect it to always seem too flashy for you.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Expect it to always seem too flashy for you.

    For me and for many other according to what I read or discuss with more member of the community. They always tell us to communicate feedback on the forums, this is what I'm doing.
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    looks boring and flashy to me.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    looks boring and flashy to me.

    Definitely not boring to me, fromt what I saw on wednesday, looks pretty cool.
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    edited February 2
    Artharion wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    looks boring and flashy to me.

    Definitely not boring to me, fromt what I saw on wednesday, looks pretty cool.

    that's fair. just looks like every other mmorpg's combat. Nothing really stands out to me except the flashy effects.

    good chat.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Steven gave multiple disclaimers (both in the Livestream and in the PvP demo) that the UI, lighting, and skill animation effects are still a work in progress.

    Whether players want to selectively filter out what they don’t want to hear is a topic for another Forums thread.
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Honestly the only skill that looks too "flashy" for me is the ball lightning spell. That being said, I don't think you're gonna be able to have mass combat with good clarity in any design. If we want aoes to be a part of the game you're losing visibility. that's all there is to it really.

    Maybe someone has some examples where this isn't the case, and that would change my mind. That's not to say I don't think they can work towards visual clarity, Its just not possible to truly achieve it for large group encounters imo.
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  • patrick68794patrick68794 Member, Alpha Two
    looks perfectly fine to me.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2
    Artharion wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Expect it to always seem too flashy for you.

    For me and for many other according to what I read or discuss with more member of the community. They always tell us to communicate feedback on the forums, this is what I'm doing.
    I did not tell you to not communicate feedback.
    I simply warned you to expect that Ashes combat will always seem too flashy to you.
    Because these devs love super-flashy abilities. And... even when they tone them down in response to feedback, people still complain they are too flashy.
  • CadacCadac Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Game settings allow players to fine tune performance to suit their preferences and hardware capabilities.[22][23][24]

    Particle effects and rendering.[25]
    Effects bloom and brightness.[22]
    Effect elements and channels.[22]
    Motion blur will be togglable on and off.[26]

    I think that if this is not enough, then we have a problem. I am confident there will be a herd of content creators willing to lead the flashy-averse to the promised land of the settings screen.
    No one wants to fight in a combat blizzard, and I am not convinced that we will... yet. Not by some second pass pre-alpha 2 combat they still working on , and no demonstration of the above adjustments.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    The game still looks too flashy, especially in massive PvP. This is something that affect the gameplay in several ways, but also how the whole scene looks. Here some points to consider and that, imho might help to generate a more comfortable atmosphere for the player:

    Use More Muted Color Palette for Effects: Using less saturated or darker colors for skill effects can reduce visual fatigue and make it easier for players to focus on strategy and gameplay mechanics without distractions. This also helps ensure that special effects do not dominate the visual scene, especially in massive combat situations where many players are using abilities simultaneously.

    Visual Differentiation by Class: Limiting the more flashy and colorful visual effects to specific classes, like mages or other magical classes, can add a layer of visual strategy, allowing players to quickly identify the type of threat or support a particular class might be providing on the battlefield. For non-magical classes, such as archers, effects could be more subtle or realistic, focusing on showcasing the skill without overwhelming the scene. IMHO, skills like that flashy green arrow-machine gun from the Archer is too much, also it looks more like a Star Wars blaster than a medieval set.

    Optimization of Effects for Massive PvP: Consider optimizing effects in massive PvP situations, possibly with a setting that allows players to adjust the intensity or visibility of certain visual effects. This could include options to simplify skill effects in high-player combat situations, reducing the number of flashes, particles, and other graphical elements that can make the action hard to follow.

    Visual Feedback and Gameplay: While aesthetics are important, it is crucial that any adjustments to visual effects do not compromise players' ability to read the game and react appropriately. Each skill should have a clear visual indicator of its area of effect, casting time, and immediate impact, so players can make informed decisions in the heat of the moment.

    Implementing these changes will require a careful balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. It would be beneficial for the development team to collect more community feedback and conduct iterative testing to find the right balance that satisfies most players. This feedback and adjustment process is crucial for creating a gaming experience that is both visually appealing and solidly playable.

    didnt you complain in another thread that the effects got downgraded?
    wouldnt they be downgrading if they removed the flashiness of the effects?
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    seems much better to me and tbh a war in a high fantasy section would be flashy if magic a thing so it kinda makes sense
    also gotta remember they be showing it off with spell effects on max setting aswell so they could be persoanly toned down for u if u wanted most likly in settings
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    The game still looks too flashy, especially in massive PvP. This is something that affect the gameplay in several ways, but also how the whole scene looks. Here some points to consider and that, imho might help to generate a more comfortable atmosphere for the player:

    Use More Muted Color Palette for Effects: Using less saturated or darker colors for skill effects can reduce visual fatigue and make it easier for players to focus on strategy and gameplay mechanics without distractions. This also helps ensure that special effects do not dominate the visual scene, especially in massive combat situations where many players are using abilities simultaneously.

    Visual Differentiation by Class: Limiting the more flashy and colorful visual effects to specific classes, like mages or other magical classes, can add a layer of visual strategy, allowing players to quickly identify the type of threat or support a particular class might be providing on the battlefield. For non-magical classes, such as archers, effects could be more subtle or realistic, focusing on showcasing the skill without overwhelming the scene. IMHO, skills like that flashy green arrow-machine gun from the Archer is too much, also it looks more like a Star Wars blaster than a medieval set.

    Optimization of Effects for Massive PvP: Consider optimizing effects in massive PvP situations, possibly with a setting that allows players to adjust the intensity or visibility of certain visual effects. This could include options to simplify skill effects in high-player combat situations, reducing the number of flashes, particles, and other graphical elements that can make the action hard to follow.

    Visual Feedback and Gameplay: While aesthetics are important, it is crucial that any adjustments to visual effects do not compromise players' ability to read the game and react appropriately. Each skill should have a clear visual indicator of its area of effect, casting time, and immediate impact, so players can make informed decisions in the heat of the moment.

    Implementing these changes will require a careful balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. It would be beneficial for the development team to collect more community feedback and conduct iterative testing to find the right balance that satisfies most players. This feedback and adjustment process is crucial for creating a gaming experience that is both visually appealing and solidly playable.

    If you watched the live stream back they literally address effects are not finished...that means they will be doing other passes and adjusting them. You aren't even going to see optimized settings yet. They are definitely aware of issues but making the same comment on the same effects that have not been scaled yet won't do much.


    That being said i feel like this is a troll at this point as you are trying to suggest you have this view point always or something by saying "Still"

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/57319/is-it-just-me-or-do-i-see-some-downgrade-in-the-latest-ranger-devstream/p1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    The game still looks too flashy, especially in massive PvP. This is something that affect the gameplay in several ways, but also how the whole scene looks. Here some points to consider and that, imho might help to generate a more comfortable atmosphere for the player:

    Use More Muted Color Palette for Effects: Using less saturated or darker colors for skill effects can reduce visual fatigue and make it easier for players to focus on strategy and gameplay mechanics without distractions. This also helps ensure that special effects do not dominate the visual scene, especially in massive combat situations where many players are using abilities simultaneously.

    Visual Differentiation by Class: Limiting the more flashy and colorful visual effects to specific classes, like mages or other magical classes, can add a layer of visual strategy, allowing players to quickly identify the type of threat or support a particular class might be providing on the battlefield. For non-magical classes, such as archers, effects could be more subtle or realistic, focusing on showcasing the skill without overwhelming the scene. IMHO, skills like that flashy green arrow-machine gun from the Archer is too much, also it looks more like a Star Wars blaster than a medieval set.

    Optimization of Effects for Massive PvP: Consider optimizing effects in massive PvP situations, possibly with a setting that allows players to adjust the intensity or visibility of certain visual effects. This could include options to simplify skill effects in high-player combat situations, reducing the number of flashes, particles, and other graphical elements that can make the action hard to follow.

    Visual Feedback and Gameplay: While aesthetics are important, it is crucial that any adjustments to visual effects do not compromise players' ability to read the game and react appropriately. Each skill should have a clear visual indicator of its area of effect, casting time, and immediate impact, so players can make informed decisions in the heat of the moment.

    Implementing these changes will require a careful balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. It would be beneficial for the development team to collect more community feedback and conduct iterative testing to find the right balance that satisfies most players. This feedback and adjustment process is crucial for creating a gaming experience that is both visually appealing and solidly playable.

    If you watched the live stream back they literally address effects are not finished...that means they will be doing other passes and adjusting them. You aren't even going to see optimized settings yet. They are definitely aware of issues but making the same comment on the same effects that have not been scaled yet won't do much.


    That being said i feel like this is a troll at this point as you are trying to suggest you have this view point always or something by saying "Still"

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/57319/is-it-just-me-or-do-i-see-some-downgrade-in-the-latest-ranger-devstream/p1

    They always say to provide feedback, so this is what me and other are doing. If you can't handle it, just don't enter on the forum.
  • Nexus777Nexus777 Member
    I really like flashy, but I get your point.
    If there's some option to tune it down or up on settings everybody can be happy.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    The game still looks too flashy, especially in massive PvP. This is something that affect the gameplay in several ways, but also how the whole scene looks. Here some points to consider and that, imho might help to generate a more comfortable atmosphere for the player:

    Use More Muted Color Palette for Effects: Using less saturated or darker colors for skill effects can reduce visual fatigue and make it easier for players to focus on strategy and gameplay mechanics without distractions. This also helps ensure that special effects do not dominate the visual scene, especially in massive combat situations where many players are using abilities simultaneously.

    Visual Differentiation by Class: Limiting the more flashy and colorful visual effects to specific classes, like mages or other magical classes, can add a layer of visual strategy, allowing players to quickly identify the type of threat or support a particular class might be providing on the battlefield. For non-magical classes, such as archers, effects could be more subtle or realistic, focusing on showcasing the skill without overwhelming the scene. IMHO, skills like that flashy green arrow-machine gun from the Archer is too much, also it looks more like a Star Wars blaster than a medieval set.

    Optimization of Effects for Massive PvP: Consider optimizing effects in massive PvP situations, possibly with a setting that allows players to adjust the intensity or visibility of certain visual effects. This could include options to simplify skill effects in high-player combat situations, reducing the number of flashes, particles, and other graphical elements that can make the action hard to follow.

    Visual Feedback and Gameplay: While aesthetics are important, it is crucial that any adjustments to visual effects do not compromise players' ability to read the game and react appropriately. Each skill should have a clear visual indicator of its area of effect, casting time, and immediate impact, so players can make informed decisions in the heat of the moment.

    Implementing these changes will require a careful balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. It would be beneficial for the development team to collect more community feedback and conduct iterative testing to find the right balance that satisfies most players. This feedback and adjustment process is crucial for creating a gaming experience that is both visually appealing and solidly playable.

    If you watched the live stream back they literally address effects are not finished...that means they will be doing other passes and adjusting them. You aren't even going to see optimized settings yet. They are definitely aware of issues but making the same comment on the same effects that have not been scaled yet won't do much.


    That being said i feel like this is a troll at this point as you are trying to suggest you have this view point always or something by saying "Still"

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/57319/is-it-just-me-or-do-i-see-some-downgrade-in-the-latest-ranger-devstream/p1

    They always say to provide feedback, so this is what me and other are doing. If you can't handle it, just don't enter on the forum.

    I'm making more of a point you don't know what you want.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Particle effects have place holders, this type of thing also gets scaled back by feedback just like you are giving. I also 100% agree. It is too flashy and when you get 50v50 or 100v100 its going to be a mess. Im not worried, I cant count how many games like this, sells things on a single char so it looks epic but when the game comes together its scaled back because all together its messy. Ashes is in that stage of polish. When I get on the A2 forms I will be making a post just about this as well.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    looks good to me, setting should address those that don't like the vfx levels
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  • SizeMcWaveSizeMcWave Member
    I think the legibility was fine, if I ever watch DOTA, a game I don’t play, it’s looks garbled but I’m sure that fans can understand it. I think that same thing will apply here when people get in first hand hours, not minute snippets of combat.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Honestly, I found the spelleffects soo flashy and much too big, looked horrible
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    I am afraid i will just have to tone down the animated Effects/Animations to the lowest Settings when huge Battles begin. :D


    These electric, huge Balls - this cool crackling of Lightning - the Blinks/Teleports and other Effects,

    this can be hard on my sensitive Eyes. :-3
    But i'll be damned if we can not adjust the Settings in the Future when the Game comes out. >:)
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  • ReglonReglon Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    From somebody used to playing league of legends the visual effects felt very toned down. I guess it depends on where you come from.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    The fighter shouldnt have colorful flashes. Just proper weapon animations. That should help declutter.
  • Heathermas0nHeathermas0n Member, Alpha Two
    Imo I think the combat looks great and I like that it's flashy. It wasn't too much where I couldn't tell what was happening but might be different once I play it myself
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    The fighter shouldnt have colorful flashes. Just proper weapon animations. That should help declutter.

    +1

    I think they should take feedback from Throne and Liberty: A 1500v2000 Siege Battle and you don't see many colourful effects: https://youtu.be/Mq6iRarVWKA?si=ixq1pfqfLl3e7sSx
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    The fighter shouldnt have colorful flashes. Just proper weapon animations. That should help declutter.

    +1

    I think they should take feedback from Throne and Liberty: A 1500v2000 Siege Battle and you don't see many colourful effects: https://youtu.be/Mq6iRarVWKA?si=ixq1pfqfLl3e7sSx

    Why are these wars not capped o god. If this is really like 3500 people fighting thought hat is pretty insane.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    I think they should take feedback from Throne and Liberty: A 1500v2000 Siege Battle and you don't see many colourful effects
    You don't see the effects because the camera is at eagle height. Do the same in Ashes and all of its effects will feel waaaay smaller.
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Why are these wars not capped o god.
    Because that is the shittiest idea for a MASSIVE morpg. These kinds of fights is exactly what pulls people in in the first place. And when that shit is barely lagging like here - that's an incredible pull.

    I fucking hate amazon so much right now, cause this shit is exactly why I played L2 back in the day and I wish I could play TL at least until A2 comes out :'(
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    I think they should take feedback from Throne and Liberty: A 1500v2000 Siege Battle and you don't see many colourful effects
    You don't see the effects because the camera is at eagle height. Do the same in Ashes and all of its effects will feel waaaay smaller.
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Why are these wars not capped o god.
    Because that is the shittiest idea for a MASSIVE morpg. These kinds of fights is exactly what pulls people in in the first place. And when that shit is barely lagging like here - that's an incredible pull.

    I fucking hate amazon so much right now, cause this shit is exactly why I played L2 back in the day and I wish I could play TL at least until A2 comes out :'(

    Na capped wars is the best thing modern mmorpgs have done. Making them actually be competitive and not about who brings the most numbers that is garbage design.

    Zerging is not content, and why people have issues with throne and liberty with everyone on the server being in one guild. 0 pvp 0 competition, just biggest numbers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Na capped wars is the best thing modern mmorpgs have done. Making them actually be competitive and not about who brings the most numbers that is garbage design.

    Zerging is not content, and why people have issues with throne and liberty with everyone on the server being in one guild. 0 pvp 0 competition, just biggest numbers.
    You understand that you're saying this under a video where literally a bigger zerg did not win against a smaller zerg, because smaller zerg played better, right?

    There's no such thing as competitive sieges. We're not dota or cs or whatever. MASSIVE battles are fun, because you don't see that shit in any other game. I played 32vs32 battlefield back in the 00s. But I never played this kind of scale outside of mmos.

    And this kinda relates to what Noaani likes to say about pve content. You dislike him yelling that instances are fair because everyone can access that content, but you're here suggesting fucking over THOUSANDS of people just to have some imaginary "competition" in a siege. That's real funny to me :)
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