gear sets idea

this is a quick one but i think that gear sets either almost entirely if not completely should be like esos new 'class sets' where each set is designed for a single class and even could affect and change how certain abilities work which is fun cause it makes it feel more impactful than just a stat boost for one thing but also it allows for the option where all gear sets require the set to work meaning you cant mix too many together and there can be the same fun you get in eso where build crafting is actually pretty enjoyable as you look at the list of full gear set effects and partial gear set effects to try and create effective builds that fulfill the theme you were aiming for.

beyond that this also primarily would be a good idea i feel to prevent what happened in eso from happening in ashes where due to virtually all sets being usable by anyone for their full effect, there is no real delineation between a dps, healer, or tank anymore with the tank is the one that stands out the most and thats honestly only barely due to the need for a pull and a ranged taunt as well as a need for breach and vulnerability sets or abilities. honestly you cant go even 1 scroll down on youtube without seeing a dps build with the literal armor cap of 33k resistances, full maxed out penetration, and like 8k weapon and spell damage that can output like 150k dps on a parse dummy and also at the same time heal like 10k hp a second while being a nearly unkillable tank putting out enough damage to drop the fucking empire state building....

basically tldr is all gear sets need to be made around classes to stop class identity from disappearing and everything homogenizing too much and without proper control around it.

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Ludullu

Creating a game-enforced meta is bad imo (even if I prefer it). And considering that anyone can use any weapon in Ashes, how would you even choose what "the right" weapon for a class is, when making such a set.

In other words, just put in some good dial variety into gear and let players decide how they wanna craft their shit.

Rookk

NiKr wrote: »

Creating a game-enforced meta is bad imo (even if I prefer it). And considering that anyone can use any weapon in Ashes, how would you even choose what "the right" weapon for a class is, when making such a set.

In other words, just put in some good dial variety into gear and let players decide how they wanna craft their shit.

i dont think you got what i was saying which to be fair i failed 11th and 12th grade english cause i hate writing and am pretty sure im mildly dyslexic so that could explain why i write things so terribly but what im saying is that a *SET* like in eso with this page showing what i mean by set (https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sets) should be whats locked to the class. a set can and SHOULD include ALL weapons and armor as options to be made as a part of the set with the set being the set effects primarily as if say you make a set to boost healing done and recieved but you dont lock that set to the cleric than you run the risk of a fighter clerics life augmetns becoming to powerful and balancing becomes a massive bitch unless you give up the class deliniated roles and homoginize everything. flat out its the only logical way to do things that makes it so you dont let everyone become walking gods who can heal, dps, and tank like it was nothing or did you want this game to become the same boring as solo player rpg fest that all other 'mmo'rpgs are today?

Ludullu

Wendigo_Actual wrote: »

flat out its the only logical way to do things that makes it so you dont let everyone become walking gods who can heal, dps, and tank like it was nothing or did you want this game to become the same boring as solo player rpg fest that all other 'mmo'rpgs are today?

This is already controlled through archetype design. A fighter doesn't have direct healing abilities, so if there's a healing set (that's accessible to everyone) - a cleric with that set will be way more valuable than a random fighter with healing augments.

To me, every class wearing the same shit is the exact boring solo playerness that you mention, because it's the only optimal way to play that class, so everyone looks the exact same.

I'd prefer if pve and pvp were built around abilities rather than sets. Both of them can obviously be tuned around upper and lower limits of gear power, but if a mob has an aoe debuff of "incoming healing of victims reduced by 100" and a fighter with the best healing gear and augments heals for 105hp per their best skill - that class will still be shit in that encounter.

Rookk

NiKr wrote: »

Wendigo_Actual wrote: »

flat out its the only logical way to do things that makes it so you dont let everyone become walking gods who can heal, dps, and tank like it was nothing or did you want this game to become the same boring as solo player rpg fest that all other 'mmo'rpgs are today?

This is already controlled through archetype design. A fighter doesn't have direct healing abilities, so if there's a healing set (that's accessible to everyone) - a cleric with that set will be way more valuable than a random fighter with healing augments.

To me, every class wearing the same shit is the exact boring solo playerness that you mention, because it's the only optimal way to play that class, so everyone looks the exact same.

I'd prefer if pve and pvp were built around abilities rather than sets. Both of them can obviously be tuned around upper and lower limits of gear power, but if a mob has an aoe debuff of "incoming healing of victims reduced by 100" and a fighter with the best healing gear and augments heals for 105hp per their best skill - that class will still be shit in that encounter.

dude did you forgot that the augment system means that with that fighter exam[ple, what i was literally pointing out is if they life augment gives them ANY aoe healing on top of the self healing than you already haveta deal with a fighter who might start healing like fuckin deadpool let alone if they have a healing ability that can get sent to the moon by the wrong set working in just the right way. thats the fucking nature of having augments from each class that can heavily affect the way a characters abilites work

Rookk

beyond that the other reason you still havent adressed as to why i would prefer the SETS as class sets and not individual gear or armor or weapon types, is because it means you can have more interesting sets linked to archtype abilites and not just a swathe of boring ass stat boost that just "makes you heal 15% more hp" or "you do 10% more dmg" and shit like that. your only making incoherent points that show you dont even seem to understand whats being talked about my guy.

Rookk

like before you respond again i want you to explain what a eso set is so i at least know you arent still idiotically thinking that im saying that WEAPON AND ARMOR TYPES are what should be locked to specific classes and that its the effects of gear that should be class locked...........

Azherae

Wendigo_Actual wrote: »

like before you respond again i want you to explain what a eso set is so i at least know you arent still idiotically thinking that im saying that WEAPON AND ARMOR TYPES are what should be locked to specific classes and that its the effects of gear that should be class locked...........

So, you want the same piece of gear when worn by my Rogue to have a different effect when worn by my Cleric?

Or is it that you want specific 'Cleric Gear sets' that a Rogue COULD wear but wouldn't get the set effect of?

daveywavey

Simple option here, guys:

Ludullu

daveywavey wrote: »

Simple option here, guys

Nah, I see that as the most copout way of interacting with people. Never saw any point in blocking people. Why even exist on forums if you're only willing to talk to people that you like.

Azherae

daveywavey wrote: »

Simple option here, guys:

I've met a few people like this that changed.

So it's worth the 5-10m.

Noaani

Wendigo_Actual wrote: »

like before you respond again i want you to explain what a eso set is so i at least know you arent still idiotically thinking that im saying that WEAPON AND ARMOR TYPES are what should be locked to specific classes and that its the effects of gear that should be class locked...........

You don't get to make demands of other posters.

There are a number of issues with your proposal.

The first is that due to ESO's limited ability set, it is possible to create a gear set for a given class knowing they will have taken the skills in question.

In Ashes, that is not a given.

The second issue I see is that you are claiming all of the above in an effort to prevent class identity from disappearing - yet you make no assertion as to why this is something that is needed, or why it is even something that is desired.

In a game like ESO, the classes present need to be more distinct - this is because of how few of them there are.

In a game like Ashes, a character that has taken fighter/healer should be fairly similar to someone that has taken healer/fighter. Not the same, but similar. On the other hand, someone that has taken fighter/mage should be almost nothing like either of the other two classes, and a mage/fighter should be even further from them.

Basically, in Ashes, rather than each class being it's own distinct thing, you should be looking at all of the classes as a palette where an amount of blending is happening.

oOKingOo

I don't like class sets, just like I don't like gear or weapons to be class-specific. That's a choice that I don't want developers to make for me.

ESO had some cool sets, but when I break it down more, I like the 5-item effect of sets and mostly build around those instead of building around the 2-4 item stats that the sets would give. Generally, having basic stats as a "set effect" is just lame to me; just make the gear piece itself have these stats.

As for the special effects that are more than just stats, I would like to see it more on an item basis instead of a set basis. For example, not a set of the vampire where you have to wear 5 pieces to get the lifesteal effect, but instead a Dagger of the Vampire that is legendary, has stats like other items, but also has a special effect "heal for 100% of bleed damage done".

Or a Cape of Invisibility that guarantees a critical hit when you attack out of invisibility. Or Lance of Lu Bu that gives you 100% armor piercing for 3 seconds after dismounting on a 10-second cooldown. For me, it would be fine if only legendaries have these special effects, and I would be fine with them being quite strong.

I feel like this would make it way more interesting than in ESO where you can basically run 2 special effects at max (without mythics) because you need 5 gear slots per special effect. Obviously, the balancing would have to be heavily tested. Also, I like when it's conditional effects like above (vampire dagger only good if you use a bleed build, cape only good when you have an invisibility ability, lance only good when you actively use your combat mount in the fight). I think this increases the skill ceiling and helps not making an item super OP independent of the build used, which is always good.

As for relics (one per server-type gear), I think they could even have active abilities kind of like some items in MOBAs have active effects. For example, some relic gives you an execute that heals you to max if you execute someone with that skill (relatively high cooldown). Or some relic shield has an active that absorbs 100% of damage for 5 seconds on a relatively high cooldown.

Keep in mind I'm not a game developer, don't quote me on damage/cooldown numbers, this is just to get an idea of the kind of effects I would like on legendary/relic items. It obviously would have to be somewhat balanced.

Spif

Noaani wrote: »

In a game like Ashes, a character that has taken fighter/healer should be fairly similar to someone that has taken healer/fighter. Not the same, but similar. On the other hand, someone that has taken fighter/mage should be almost nothing like either of the other two classes, and a mage/fighter should be even further from them

Two things:

1) We've heard from the devs that a fighter/cleric is going to be a fighter first, then have cleric augments that modify fighter abilities. A cleric/fighter will have cleric abilities augmented to be "fighter-ish". They should be very different in playstyle, and be fairly far apart in capabilities. IE, a cleric/fighter can group-heal an 8-man. A fighter/cleric cannot.

2) ESO's mix-and-match set structure combined with all weapons/armor usable by all classes gives the player a lot of freedom to build their character a certain way. The number of classes doesn't really have much impact on this.

If I'm a fighter/cleric and want to lean a little harder into healing, why wouldn't I be able to pick item/set bonus that help me do that? I'll lose damage by picking a healing set rather than a crit (or resource regen) set. That's fine. That's player choice.

Avoiding Deadpool-style healing is the job of the balance team, and has no impact on who can wear which set. We don't want unkillable clerics/fighters either.

Noaani

Spif wrote: »

1) We've heard from the devs that a fighter/cleric is going to be a fighter first, then have cleric augments that modify fighter abilities. A cleric/fighter will have cleric abilities augmented to be "fighter-ish". They should be very different in playstyle, and be fairly far apart in capabilities. IE, a cleric/fighter can group-heal an 8-man. A fighter/cleric cannot.

A fighter/cleric and a cleric/fighter are both classes you would expect to be in or near melee range, dealing some damage and doing some healing.

A mage/summoner will be doing none of those things.

Ergo, a fighter/cleric will be similar to a cleric/fighter. The fact that one can group heal a full group and the other cant doesnt mean they are not still similar. Similar does not mean exactly the same as, nor does it mean a substitute for. It just means that they are similar.

If I'm a fighter/cleric and want to lean a little harder into healing, why wouldn't I be able to pick item/set bonus that help me do that? I'll lose damage by picking a healing set rather than a crit (or resource regen) set. That's fine. That's player choice.

Explain to me why class specific sets are needed for this.

There is no reason why you couldn't equip healing gear in your scenario above - I'm not arguing that. I fully expect that to be normal, in fact.

It's the notion of specific class based sets that I dont see working in Ashes.

Kilion

I don't agree. Mainly because ESO and Ashes classes simply work different.
Sure, I can play Mage with a leather armor that gives me strength boosts, but not all of the 20 abilities in my action bar (out of 35-40 in my skillbook) will provide synergy with these stat boosts. So choosing specific stats will change my skill bar if I want to maximize effectiveness of my gear-stat-skill combination. But even then, my mage will not suddenly turn into a rouge because of that, nor will it become a healer or tank just because of gear stats. Steven has been very clear about class identity.

Regarding skill modification/enhancement: Why? That is literally what the augment system beyond level 25 is for to my understanding. Sure, to have SOME class locked items is nice, but designing whole sets for one class (especially with 64 of those being around) just sounds like a way to devalue all non-class-locked gear.

kuldar1994

I would like to see item sets that offer group buffs, enhancing the effectiveness of both you and your teammates in combat. However, the value of these buffs would decrease depending on the number of group members present. For instance, in a group of four, these sets' buffs would be significantly stronger than in a group of ten. Additionally, it would be interesting to have sets tailored specifically for pairs, providing unique benefits for duos.

Depraved

i dont think a fighter / cleric with a healing set will be able to heal as much as a cleric with no healing set. you arent going to become a healer just from wearing a healing set and picking cleric as secondary. you might get some regen or holy damage (or death), but not become a designated healer.

also, consider that even if it did happen, the fighter is wearing a healing set, which means he isnt wearing a dps or a tank set. he is giving up on some other things to be able to heal more. he isnt gonna be doing as much damage as a warrior wearing a dps set and he might be squishier as well. so basically, you wont be a healer but you also wont be a fighter lol..

additionally, if the concern is that sets could make a class overpowered, then you can fix that by balancing the augment system, not necessarily preventing people from wearing gear. there are multiple ways to fix the problem.

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