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Grid based crafting system (Creative exercise)

LashingLashing Member
edited February 27 in General Discussion
I have been thinking about a system like this for a while so I decided write it out. I feel that a grid based crafting system would fulfill all of Intrepid's design requirements. A more involved crafting system that does not get tedious (not a minigame but more than just clicking craft), an ability to level up a recipe, a sense of discovery for recipes, and a potential for hidden recipes. A system like this would have a lot of room for creative design and expansion.

NJHBugC.png

Here is an example of a basic Tier 1 recipe of a sword. A Recipe would list the materials needed. Sometimes down to exact material and position or at various levels of vagueness depending on design intent. The second stage is not even required for this recipe as the leather on the hilt could be added to the first stage. The first stage is adding metal to the grid to create a sword blade. Then the second stage is taking that blade and adding accents and finishing touches. In the leveled recipe you have potential for a rare material that changes the blade appearance some and increases its potential. Then furthermore you can add in even more rare materials (in this example runes) to the blade. This is a very visual leveling up of the recipe that I feel would satisfying to work towards.

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Early game means more simple grids. As you advance in a profession you will see more complex grid sizes and shapes. More stages could be added depending on the design requirements from the devs and the amount of materials needed.

HjLqITy.png

Various professions could have their own grid shapes to make sure each profession does not feel the same. A grid shaped like a cauldron for Alchemy would add some flavor to the system. Blank grids that have server side recipes could be an interesting thing for players to find. Players have to figure out what items to use and even potentially what profession the grid belongs to. Intrepid expressed desire for rare recipes you could find and trade. The blank grid would be a perfect place for this design.

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To fulfill the design requirement of a more involved crafting method that is not tedious upon repetition is a simple auto full button after first craft completion. If you can trade recipes the auto fill requirements could already be fulfilled for the new owner. This would be useful for more complex end game crafts involving a large grid and multiple stages.

Comments

  • NiKrNiKr Member
    W/o seeing what Intrepid has planned for their active crafting it's difficult to say whether this is a good suggestion or not. Right now this just seems like a different UI presentation rather than an active crafting mechanic.

    I wouldn't be against it if it was implemented, but I'm not sure if it adds anything to the overall process of crafting. At least I don't think it would add anything to my process, as a crafter main.
  • Right now from what we know crafting is all in UI so the crafting presentation is the mechanic. Personally I value a good presentation for this type of system. It is a lot more obvious when you level up a recipe and a square changes color and allows you to slot in new rare materials. As opposed to a list being updated with some kind of optional drop down selection. I hope whatever they do use is logical, modular, and has good visual indicators.
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    I was talking about these plans. UI can be whatever it wants, because that's a tiny part of the overall process.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crafting
    For example, if you're creating a sword, and you are crafting that sword, you will have an interface- a gameplay layer that you will see and you will begin to hammer actually that sword into an appropriate outline. And your performance there can help influence the outcome of that craft.[19]
  • Based on the last time they talked about it. The gameplay layer might only occur a few times when leveling up your profession. They were not locked in yet. However I feel like the process of filling out the grid for the first time fulfills the more involved requirement anyway. It is not skill based but I have a feeling people would not like skill based anyway.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Something like this, or something else. I would like to see more than just us clicking a button at least.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If this is implemented as suggested, it will be a bad thing for an MMO.

    It would require there to be a penalty on 'trying things in the slots', otherwise it will be among the easiest things to bot, and it would have the least longevity and the least overall risk to bot if implemented sanely. (even if the character is investigated and banned, the bot would still 'work out all the combinations' before banning happened)

    I can go into more detail if people care about that, but note that my detail probably wouldn't help Intrepid, they clearly already have sufficiently skilled individuals on the itemization team to understand why this is bad.

    There are a few ways to do this, but the key is to tune it to the game and its 'crafter' audience. I understand that by making the post, you are probably in that audience, I'm just here as the 'person who reminds you that I can trivially bot it'.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • LashingLashing Member
    edited February 27
    There is basically no reason to bot a system like this. For one the blank grid thing would not even need to be a thing and for another there is a simular system in Path of Exile with vendor recipes and that did not have a bot issue. It would be using brute force where solving the puzzle takes logic. Recipes are not random. It took a community effort to solve them. For general crafting there is auto full and you would not want a bot using rare materials for you. Worrying about bots for this seems illogical considering all the more profitable things you could be automating.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Lashing wrote: »
    There is basically no reason to bot a system like this. For one the blank grid thing would not even need to be a thing and for another there is a simular system in Path of Exile with vendor recipes and that did not have a bot issue. It would be using brute force where solving the puzzle takes logic. Recipes are not random. It took a community effort to solve them. For general crafting there is auto full and you would not want a bot using rare materials for you. Worrying about bots for this seems illogical considering all the more profitable things you could be automating.

    I don't personally consider this a counterargument against botting, and it's not that I really want to have a conversation about botting. I do, however want people to understand that botting such things is so relatively easy that you wouldn't necessarily even need to write it yourself anymore, you'd just 'ask a GPT type language model to write the code for you'.

    Now, as for the part that actually might be of some benefit to discuss:
    If it is a puzzle that changes by 'result', then I personally feel the grid isn't adding much, but I play/mod a decent amount of MineCraft, so there's bias there. If it doesn't change, then 'receiving a new blank grid that needs to be figured out' is only content for 'one person', or rather, it's a relatively short-lived content race.

    If we perceive that the 'content race' is longer, then bots become worth it. If it's short enough for a single player 'that refuses to look it up' to still get some enjoyment, then I'd personally question how much worth there is in the effort of adding it. If we choose to add it by using a logical rule system, then we're back to the above.

    Note, I'm saying this as someone who comes from a game with a slightly more complex version of the grid for an even more complex purpose. I'm not 'downcrying it because I think it won't work', I've seen it work, it's the complexity and goals related to what we consider 'working' to be.

    For anyone interested:
    https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Moblin_Maze_Mongers

    I'd explain it, but as with all meaningfully complex systems you find in MMOs, the entire problem is that if I could summarize it well enough to make a point on a forum, it wouldn't be worth using to make the point.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Lashing wrote: »
    Right now from what we know crafting is all in UI so the crafting presentation is the mechanic.

    presentation and mechanic are 2 diferent things.
    Lashing wrote: »
    There is basically no reason to bot a system like this. For one the blank grid thing would not even need to be a thing and for another there is a simular system in Path of Exile with vendor recipes and that did not have a bot issue. It would be using brute force where solving the puzzle takes logic. Recipes are not random. It took a community effort to solve them. For general crafting there is auto full and you would not want a bot using rare materials for you. Worrying about bots for this seems illogical considering all the more profitable things you could be automating.

    just because you dont think there is a reason to do something, doesnt mean someone will wont as well. if someone wants to make a bot or a plugin for a bot to automate crafting, they will, whether you think it will be worth it or not. and automating things is always worth it.

    anyways, on topic. i didnt get how your system works. you have to start putting materials in the grid to level up a recipe and then put more materials in to craft?
    will the recipe tell you the materials it needs or what? can you explain again please.
  • LashingLashing Member
    edited February 29
    Depraved wrote: »
    just because you dont think there is a reason to do something, doesnt mean someone will wont as well. if someone wants to make a bot or a plugin for a bot to automate crafting, they will, whether you think it will be worth it or not. and automating things is always worth it.

    anyways, on topic. i didnt get how your system works. you have to start putting materials in the grid to level up a recipe and then put more materials in to craft?
    will the recipe tell you the materials it needs or what? can you explain again please.

    I do not believe anyone would bot a system with an auto fill button. Even for the first craft there is no way setting up a bot would be faster than just doing it yourself once. Keep in mind crafting is a process. I do not think people are going to be spamming hundreds of crafts due to needing processed goods.

    Intrepid has a design requirement for their recipe system that says the recipes have to level up the more you use them. This would work the same way. As you craft for swords with the grid it would unlock bonuses. Like slots for rare or alternate materials. Slots that have a chance to not consume your material on craft. New slots for bonus enchantment. The recipes would tell you what materials to use and how to use them. However for rare or alternate materials you would have to know the properties of the materials and check them to see the outcomes. Say you know a fire dragon scale always gives fire resistance when used on armor. Using it in place of a steel plating would lower the armor value but increase the fire res on the final craft.

    The grid system is mainly to fulfill all the design requirements Intrepid had for crafting in a fairly simplistic way. Not saying I think they would do something like this. I just made it for fun.
  • Lashing wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    just because you dont think there is a reason to do something, doesnt mean someone will wont as well. if someone wants to make a bot or a plugin for a bot to automate crafting, they will, whether you think it will be worth it or not. and automating things is always worth it.

    anyways, on topic. i didnt get how your system works. you have to start putting materials in the grid to level up a recipe and then put more materials in to craft?
    will the recipe tell you the materials it needs or what? can you explain again please.

    I do not believe anyone would bot a system with an auto fill button. Even for the first craft there is no way setting up a bot would be faster than just doing it yourself once. Keep in mind crafting is a process. I do not think people are going to be spamming hundreds of crafts due to needing processed goods.

    Intrepid has a design requirement for their recipe system that says the recipes have to level up the more you use them. This would work the same way. As you craft for swords with the grid it would unlock bonuses. Like slots for rare or alternate materials. Slots that have a chance to not consume your material on craft. New slots for bonus enchantment. The recipes would tell you what materials to use and how to use them. However for rare or alternate materials you would have to know the properties of the materials and check them to see the outcomes. Say you know a fire dragon scale always gives fire resistance when used on armor. Using it in place of a steel plating would lower the armor value but increase the fire res on the final craft.

    The grid system is mainly to fulfill all the design requirements Intrepid had for crafting in a fairly simplistic way. Not saying I think they would do something like this. I just made it for fun.

    oh you would be surprised. it saves time clicking, and also you can craft stuff while not being on your pc...thats why people bot, so they can do things without doing them.

    and ok i understand how it works now, thank you ;3
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