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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
The games crafting usually worked in a basic crafting manner, you would have a raw ingredient turned into a refined and then that is used to make gear and what not. Silk Thread is one of the refined items and is made from both crawler silk and cocoon. This created diversity in the level difference of monsters and gave options to people farming mats
separating basic drops from rare drops or even usable gear they had tougher versions of mobs called notorious monsters who would have open windows ranging from a couple hours to a couple days and would spawn in place of that family of mob in whatever area it spawns in. this allowed for more competition as well out in the world.
I didn't get to into WoW but I remember a similar experience where I wanted a specific low-mid level item but it was out of the way and the guy that dropped it wasn't always up so it had a hefty price tag for new players but not one that was too bad, still went and farmed it myself.
Ragnarok Online had a their card system which I loved, all mobs even mini bosses and major bosses had a 0.1% chance to drop a card, cards were used as gear augments which gave the game a lot of it's flavor
I wouldn't mind a system that's like rags card system but with a twist. could do a capture system where you gain a creatures essence to add modifiers to gear or something. you could even do it based off monster family type and a quality system based on the essence captured.
"Come join us as you wont like the taste of the Grapefruits we're throwing at our enemies."
"Never settle for what you think you know" - C. Krauthammer
From a wolf? Pelt, claws, teeth, meat, bones...
From a bandit? cloth, weapons, some coins or treasure, maybe an ear or some other token.
-About the low level mobs dropping powerful things. As long as it makes sense lore-wise why not?
Maybe a very small goblin found and old ring or a shinny tooth and keeps it as a treasure.
Boars have hearts, not big ol' chairs.
TL:DR = Regular Mobs should drop most world loot in the game (Excluding Legendary mats and gear)
Regular mobs in my opinion should be able to drop pretty much anything. Glint, Gear, Crafting Mats, All Items.
This is most likely a hot take, I haven't been able to read through other posts but I believe some stated they wanted drops to be mob specific. Which in theory is a cool idea, totally fine for crafting materials or quest items. But when it is implemented for other items or gear for example, (humans only drop [Swords] Beasts only drop [Teeth, hides, skin]) It basically makes Humanoid Races the only reasonable being to drop items that would be of use that aren't crafting related.
Is it weird looting a bag from a wolf, In my opinion, No. Getting small upgrades as you level not just from quests but from also random mobs in the world is what adds to the excitement of the adventure. Running through a zone you've never seen, stumbling into a spider in some woods, slaying the beast and he drops a tunic that's an upgrade for you, awesome. Obviously balancing drop rates and rarities are a key factor to keeping it special when it does happen which leads into the next question.
Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
TL:DR = Yes.
I feel great when regular mobs have a chance to drop powerful items. Some mentioned they would like the shot at legendary items from regular mobs, which I dont go to that extent and I know that it doesn't really align with Stevens values and pillars for the game as well.
Now if regular mobs dropped Epic and Heroic items, I could actually get behind that knowing that at some moment you could get a great drop would keep many players playing the game. I have seen concerns brought up from others that they believe players would just farm mob campsites and AOE them all day for the loot drops. While that does happen and will happen, Its not really a bad thing. Its another form of game play some players enjoy is just mob grinding.(Now if its bots obviously bad) Also if the loot tables are balanced well then even if that player farmed 12 hours a day killing mobs and maybe got 1-2 Rare items, the players that are doing all the other content will still come out ahead via quests, dungeons, glint and node participation, Caravans, etc.
My rough Suggestion Table for drops from Most regular mobs
Poor - 25% - 50%
Common - 10% - 25%
Uncommon - 2% - 5%
Rare - 1% - 2%
Heroic - .02%
Epic - .01%
Legendary - 0%
Artifact - 0%
In my opinion, the best way to handle drops is to have extremely few bosses drop acctual gear, i.e. weapons and armor. The world becomes a better place if mobs and bosses only drop materials that are used in crafting and that are thematic to the creature itself. A big dragon for example could drop a dragon tooth, a demon could drop demonblood etc. These thing can then be used to craft items with perks, stats and abilitys that relate to the origin of the material.
If mobs or bosses are to drop gear and weapons it should be constricted to what they are acctually using. I.e a small gobling arcer can only drop a small bow, a big ogre boss can only drop the big club it's wielding. A dragon that has no armor and no weapon should not drop a sword or a helmet. It just doesn't make sense to me.
So keep the drops to items and crafting materials and keep those things predictible to types of mobs and locations, goblings shouldn't drop dragonfangs etc.
Regular mobs should regularly drop:
Glint
Crafting Materials
They should rarely drop:
Recipes/Skins/Gear (basically for transmog) (the stuff that they are using)
They should not drop:
Junk items whos only purpose is to get sold for gold (this creates inventory bloat, which Glint already solves)
Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
No, powerful items should be left to powerful mobs. Things like legendaries and uniques should only be gotten from bosses. (and of course crafters)
For example: crafting materials, recipes(blueprints,schematics), low chance for rare crafting material, normal weapon/armor/accessories, gold from time to time and i feel like not all mobs should drop gold from them as they actually live in the wild and doesn't use stores every day, some part from a treasure map sounds interesting to me as well, low drop chance for rare stone/gem, hidden quest item. Finally i am not sure if we will have elemental damage/resistances so in that matter i could suggest some type of item(stone) that enchants your weapon or armor with elemental damage/resistance based on the mob that was killed.
2. On the second question i would say that i feel good yes, but regular mobs shouldn't drop very powerful items like epic & legendary level. It would be nice that you can get some rare upgrade(item) with very low drop chance which will help you thru your journey for the next 5-10 levels. Another interesting idea is that you could get maybe an set item and these set items drops only from that monster family and it's really hard to collect all the pieces as the drop chance is low + you won't be able to get that set thru crafting so you focus on farming the set items from these mobs or buy the other set pieces from other players/action because there is actually no recipe for that set.
Thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts
Kind Regards,
Wildy
Fantasy games are appealing worlds to visit because they are rarely about point a and point b. Normally the space between two points has a lot to say even in the empty/desolate areas of the world. Sci fi worlds, share many similarities to fantasy settings in their lack of restrictions and ability to explore deep immersive topics and different worlds, but at it's core sci fi worlds tend to have a certain element of disconnection to them that fantasy worlds lack. The environment between point a and b in a fantasy world usually has a lot to say. Space, on the other hand, does not talk. In those games it is usually up to the players and conflicts of the narrative to fill that space with meaning of it's own. This is not true for a fantasy setting and therefore it is no surprise to me that there is not a huge amount of overlap between genres in terms of player interest/what a player wants to feel when they play said games.
Now what does this have to do with itemization? If we accept the premise above that a fantasy setting's in between spaces have something to say, naturally it is the creatures and foes that populate it as well as various resources and materials obtainable in any given area that are the speakers of those words. What items a mob drops are in a sense what connects the mob to the world build and more importantly, shapes a players opinion of what the mob and the world build are really about.
It is important to make itemization as immersive and not video gamey as possible, therefore, as the items are a primary way of persuading your players as to how they should feel about a given zone. 'Bad' fantasy games, in a way, tend to feel indistinguishable from sci fi ones. They feel empty, largely because the space between places don't matter/feel flat and it is largely the players that fill it with their own meaning rather than it being a dialogue between the players and the world build around them.
I think economy is a huge factor in giving a world depth and longevity, but I think the factor I am explaining is equally important. You game designers are a collection of artists are you not? Your heart yearns for a living breathing world, not empty space to be filled with your own likeness do you not?
This is why I find things like 'powerful items' and video gamey things like money or 'glint' dropping from every mob I fight going against the intentions of a fantasy setting. Money does not talk, the people spending it do. Therefore you can think of money quite similar to space in that regard. Moreover, I think 'money' dropping or items dropping that do not necessarily fit the mob in question tend to flatten and lessen the words the environmental story telling has to offer.
Powerful items are fine if they fit the lore of the world for bosses/elite mobs but not really common mobs. However if it is 'unique' and 'helping a player gear better for less general purpose activities that fit the theme of the mob dropping that 'powerful' gear, I think this suits a world build better. Too many items that are not resources dropping from mobs I feel is a lesser form of making them drop 'money' and so I'd say it creates a similar 'flattening' effect in the long run.
So the tl;dr is "I expect mobs to drop things that would make sense for the mob to have on their person given their place in the ecosystem/world the live in." and "I do not like mobs dropping powerful items. That suits bosses better. But if it is gear that gives a situational bonus to overcome a minor obstacle in their journeys, this is desirable and helps make the world feel alive.
Its awesome when collecting something has some overall relevancy. Especially when it makes looking for specific things a skill.
Example: Diablo 2 weapon/armor bases - you can find some neat ones early on to upgrade later and sometimes even use in the lategame.
That said, would be cool to have some mats that could upgrade quality of weapons/armors to some higher level, making it possible to use some items that you like for longer.
Some early-game lucky mats/gear-drops in LA2/RFO made your leveling much easier and it was intriguing looking out for them and sometimes getting lucky.
It also integrated these "lucky" players into trading early-on.
Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
Occasional power-spikes make progression feel better, so finding a relatively rare item that makes you meaningfully stronger for some time is great.
Bad example: D3/D4/WoW Retail, where if you find a good item - it just makes easy content easier and for a short amount of time.
Good example: D2/WoW Classic, where finding a good item makes medium-difficulty content easy and hard/impossible content managable for some time.
Incredible if such items make you consider playing a different style/build. It enhances diversity, increases skill ceiling and makes ppl explore something they otherwise wouldn't, thus expanding their knowledge.
*Having certain more-efficient areas for valuable drops increases the chance of players conflict over said area, which is an awesome content for all PvP-enjoyers.
In LA2/RFO it was done by increased mob-density in certain areas, in BattleRoyales like Apex its done in randomly-selected areas.
Both options are cool, but not making it one way or another is a missed opportunity for PvP-engagement imo.
**MMO is a very hard genre and making players familiar with some of its mechanics early-on is very beneficial in the long run. They won't get as overwhelmed later on.
I would not want completed gear/weapons to drop from regular mobs even at a .5% or 1% chance. Now, if we are talking Elites mobs then I would have no problem for a 1% or even .5% chance to drop completed gear/weapons. For regular mobs, I think dropping epic, mythic or even legendary components, gatherable or processed goods would be sufficient. Regular mobs should have an exciting 1% rewards to them but I think it shouldn't be completed gear/weapons.
Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
Absolutely I do.
I think a trickle of powerful loot drops from regular mobs or elite mobs has benefits. I call it a trickle. And I mean trickle. Hard to put a number to it, but probably 1% or less chance of dropping.
I think it gives more value to lesser mobs. There's more reason to compete for them. Although in a game with a real, functioning economy like Ashes, lesser mobs can be given value either way. Currency is king. Kind of a counterpoint to my own point.
But I think a rare chance to drop powerful loot on regular and elite mobs widens the competition, giving smaller groups the ability to compete for high tier items. It really opens up the competition by putting at least some amount of a higher focus on those lesser mobs. It diminishes the abilty of a single powerful guild or alliance to fully cartelize those drops. They will still be able to partially or near fully cartelize some things, but it makes it a lot harder for them to just completely stamp out the flow.
I see it from both sides though. The major con is that when you do that, you diminish the value of the bosses to some extent. And certainly if you go overboard with it, nothing matters anymore, doesn't matter if you never get boss kills, no point even trying really, just kill these regular mobs and you get more than enough and then some of those items anyway. That sounds like a broken design.
I think either way, there needs to be some penultimate bosses that are the only source of their drops. Like the kraken in Archeage perhaps. But [insert] dragon boss in [insert] dragon dungeon, could it's drops also drop at a very low rate from the dragonoid mobs that populate the rest of that dungeon? Yes I think so. But I could also be talked out of that position too lol. So yeah
I agree that these items should be appropriate to the mob type. Thus, no deer that drop crossbows, etc. I also don't think you should be able to farm random trash guards for some epic level crossbow. The average grunt wouldn't be walking around with something like that. But the chance to get a component of rare quality, or what would be a "blue" item, seems appropriate.
Perhaps at highest the levels, in the most difficult areas, the "trash" mobs might drop something significant and rare. But it has to be a very small chance. Otherwise people will skip the world bosses, dungeon runs, etc., and just stand around farming trash. Which cheapens the prize for the work put in by those who do those things.
~Cakewalk (GM of Infernal)
For drop tables i would like something like we had in "Dark Age of Camelot" with a few additions.
I would like them to drop loot that makes sence to drop.
Lets say for exqmple we kill Minotaurs. So Minotaur berserkers sould drop melee weapons and mail armor and minotaur summoners cloth items and asseccories.
In addition to that they should drop items that are specific to crafting like minotaur horn´s.
The stats on that items can be truely random since i dont think minotaurs are good crafters them self. They can produce something that fits their needs but dont refine it for their specific role.
With that a twohanded club can come with wisdom or intelligence and cloth armor with strength or +melee weapon skill. but you can occasionally have something where some of the stats fit your class.
The items that stat whise trash you can slavage for crafting materials to sell in your hometown.
For animal type mobs i would want to never see "big" item drops like weapons or armor. Maybe carnivores can with a very low chance drop some asseccories but i would prefere that animal type mobs to only drop crafting materials.
Even though Minecraft is a different type of game and therefore only limitedly serves as a model, I would like to use it here as a positive example for some of the aspects I mentioned above.
If you wanted special items, enchants, building materials, or potions in Minecraft, you had to know/learn where and how to get them.
For some, there were various ways to obtain them.
There were various sources from which you had to collect stuff in Minecraft. Mining, monster loot, fishing, animal breeding, plants, etc., and all of this across various biomes or dimensions (nether + end).
As another example, both positive and negative, I would like to mention the original World of Warcraft. When it launched about 20 years ago, the loot system felt good.
There were good items as world random drops, from quests, from crafting, from rare mobs, from chests, from dungeons (mobs + bosses), for reputation with factions, through PvP, and through combinations of these.
HOWEVER, this changed quite rapidly. With progressing patches and more available raids, almost everything became pointless except for items from raids.
And this is exactly the situation WoW Classic players have known since the remake and from private servers. Everyone already knows that 90% of the items aren't worth it because you will quickly get something better in Raid XY.
Would love to see a chance of hidden lore, sidequests and narratives drop that themselves could lead to some reward if pursued.
+
Let us browse what items each monster can drop from a "Monster Encyclopedia", clicking on their nameplate opens it and navigates directly to the monster's page.
I have this crazy vision for an MMO, where mobs (regular and ultra-last-bosses alike) can't drop any equipable items. They can drop two type of items; vendor-items of varying quality and crafting materials, which can optionally be used in professions to make items better. It would create a much more diverse spread in professions and a world where everyone would rely on eachother to get better.
as for the Quality of items, I feel like it should "just" follow the natural progression of the game. When you start out, you should only find common items - and perhabs occasionally an uncommon one. Then when you get stronger and level up you can venture into more dangerous parts of the world where stronger creatures can drop items of higher quality. It could be something so simple as:
- Level 1 - 10 = Common items for 80 % and uncommon for 20 %
- Level 11- 20 = Common items for 40 %, uncommon for 50 % and rare items for 10 %
- Level 21 - 30 = Common items for 40, uncommon for 40 %, rare items for 19 % and epic items for 1 %
... and so forth...Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
It doesn't feel good to get an epic Hammer of a Thousand Crushed Skulls from a level 2 mob... But on the other hand, it doesn't feel good either to never have the chance of getting something "shiny" from regular mobs as you level up
Regular mobs should drop regular loot most of the time, but they should have the chance to drop rare recipes and materials specific to that type of mob. For instance, after farming hundreds of wolves, one might drop a recipe for a "Helmet of the Pack". This recipe could require a few not-as-rare ingredients that you picked up along the way or still need to find a few more of from those same mobs (i.e. wolf helm needs wolf pelts and head).
IDEALLY ALL RARE DROP RECIPES SHOULD BE ABLE TO CRAFT A VIABLE PIECE OF MAX LEVEL EQUIPMENT. However, it should require very difficult to acquire drops from endgame bosses/activities.
We've already seen the functionality of being able to affect stats through crafting. Let us customize the level/item level this way as well. This opens the door to HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION. Suddenly many more mobs have the potential to be appetizing for late to end-game players.
At end game, you're now not just grinding the same raid over and over for 1 drop. Any number of bosses/raids could be eligible to drop "mcguffin of max level recipe" that would allow you to grind your choice of content.
Essentially: mob randomly drops .05% chance recipe for unique gear piece>end-game content drops/awards single use ingredient required to bring any craft to current max level/item level>grandmaster craftsman crafts gear piece at max level with the rarity and stats desired through other optional ingredients. Collect the whole set!
Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
Of course! Everyone loves seeing that rare drop pop out of the little goblin. Making it useful but not ruining the gear chase is the trick.
As for elite and bosses, maybe they could have completed equipment? I actually don't like the idea as much as making crafting king. I am iffy.
1. Alpha Wolf
- Wolf Claws
- Dyes
- Wolf Magic Glow
2. Goblin
- Money (they stole it 🤡)
- Goblin Ears
- Rusty iron (from the sword they were perhaps wearing)
Now for the loot rarities, I always feel like we have to work to get our gear and upgrades. The more difficult the monster/encounter is, the more rewarding it should be. This is where rarities comes in. The most valuable items (Legendaries, Artifacts, etc) should be from hard bosses/raid encounters or be rewarded from multiple hard achievements. In the other hand, normal monsters that doesn't take an advanced knowledge to kill must drop lower quality loot, but still has to be useful for every other players' level until 50 so the economy at lower levels don't crash.
I really like it when regular mobs have a chance to drop powerful or really good items. i like that Korean style of ragnarok or l2 where you kill regular mobs for loot and compete against other players for said mobs, rather than just log in every day and do this daily / weekly, or kill this boss for this thing.
if I cant play a lot on one day, I can log in the next and get lucky killing regular mobs. cant do that with a daily / weekly system. if you miss a day, you will never catch up.
I would like to see regular mobs droping money, glint, scraps, crafting materials, armor pieces and weapons.
Do you feel good when regular mobs have a rare chance to drop powerful items?
Yes I would like that!
It would be also interesting that mobs could drop some "trophy items" that players could attach to their armors or weapons as ornaments. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning used similar kind of system and it added some flavour into customizing characters armors. In that game mobs would drop some tokens that could be traded into these trophy items. For example you could trade a token and get a goblin or human head and attach it in to your belt or shoulder armor. The other way to get these trophy items was by completing some achievements like killing some amount of specific creatures or enemy players. By this achievement method you could get stuff like medals, tankards, smoking pipes etc.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... and then suddenly you don't know that +20 farmers just so happen to be in the same area and now you are suddenly getting "spawned in" by mobs you thought would need +1 more minute to respawn... just like most other days.
I can see this becoming unpopular quickly.
Quicker spawnrates for overpopulated area's yes but not necessarily "endgame" one's.
Startingzones can be such a hazard but also only until the wave of newbies has moved on.
What I would find tempting to most probably waste
Which might also make the allure of corruption higher.
You don't know if it maybe pays off cause some player might have lots of stuff in his deep bags.
With the punishable nature of corruption, I think of no reason to use this feature of simply robbing someone at all when it can never pay off, comparably.
Dropped items should, whenever possible, direct the player toward another part of the game.
In the Fighter archetype preview one of the drops was the Flayer Blade Fragment. I like the idea of using unique (not rare) material drops to craft the items that the mobs use. I recommend that there are at least a few different ways/recipes to consume this type of unique material, though. If only 10% of players want a Goblin Flayer Blade, then there are likely going to be a lot of left over fragments that never get used and just sit in the auction house. But if you can also use them as a material to craft some spikey pauldrons, even if those pauldrons aren't even in the same theme set or level range as the blade, that would give the fragments a larger footprint/purpose in the game.
Appropriate materials, for example skins and teeth from animals. I dont like gray vendor garbage, if coins drop it should just be from humanoid npcs that would actually carry them. Instead of tons of vendor trash, maybe make the vendor loot items rare and valuable so its satisfying to get one and doesn't clutter our inventory.
I don't have an issue with rare items on a small chance, but if it's useful or popular it will just get farmed into not being rare.
I would just like to see all loot appropriate to the mob. This actually encourages us to get to know the creatures we are fighting in order to hunt for the loot we want.
Quick add: I do like trophy items, low drop percentages for rare niche items, and cosmetics as an extremely low chance (should be tradeable).
If I was to design the system, I would create a crafting system that will eventually be overlayed on to the world. Simply put, merging Factorio (the mods not base game) crafting systems in to a MMORGP world. Here is a link for "The Full Pyanodon's Space Science Flowchart" : https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/12w2w3i/the_full_pyanodons_space_science_flowchart/
This essentially creates a pyramid like system that will drive long term gameplay. Basic materials will always in some way feed higher tier crafting so that there is a place for all gameplay focuses. Additionally, adding horizontal or higher tier recipes through the lifecycle of the game should be simpler as well since all the interdependencies are clearly defined.