Crowd Control Diminishing Returns (CC DR)- Nameplate UI?

Depraved

to me, it isnt about showing dr icons or not...i don't really mind. to me, it Is about when do we stop showing things?
at some point, you gonna have 384574857 icons on the enemy that you wont be able to quickly find whatever icon you are looking for.

Azherae

Xeeg wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

It's early, and from there, they have to choose a direction:

1) You don't need to see all those things because the battles are entirely about positioning and tactics rather than picking out the correct target consistently.
2) You need a lot of UI data because choosing the correct target and not wasting skills is really important to the battle flow.

If we get #1, we shouldn't get a ton of CC, particularly not long range CC.
If we get #2, we should get what you're asking for so that we can do the thing.

The reason the TL video is like that, is because TL is in camp #1.

Well, it also depends on what game mode we are talking about. Open world content, levelling progression, caravan runs, castle seiges, etc. all might have different ui requirements.

I'm more specifically saying:

"If the game is Type 1, it can just look like TL and you don't need to see most of that."

If the game is Type 2 (what you're used to and prefer, based on your OP), then it might require multiple UI configs and so on.

And therefore feedback (I think I speak for my whole group on this one) is 'if they are designing a Type 2 game, we agree with you'. If they are designing a Type 1 game, we agree with NiKr, and just expect that you won't enjoy it.

Neox365

NiKr wrote: »

Xeeg wrote: »

The fight at the 2 min mark is pretty clean looking. A lot of this depends on the numbers of players in the fight for sure.

I also really like how their spell effects have transparency on them so you can still see the players.

It was from the time in the game where spell effects were still quite minimal and looked great. Then it all devolved into insanely bright bullshit. And Ashes is sadly following that bullshit so far. Really wish the genre trend went back to minimalism.

Neox365 wrote: »

250vs250 you wont actually see everyone right? I guess they put Layers between the People?

The first video I posted and this one at 25:50 are the rough representation of what we'll see in sieges. A mass of people that are all visible. Layers would literally defeat the purpose of a mass battle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI5yPLhDQYc

Here's another example from a current mmo as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq6iRarVWKA

Thank you for clarifying. I had always thought that 250vs250 would be too laggy for most PCs, so it didn't occur to me that it would be similar to the video you mentioned. Thanks!

Xeeg

Azherae wrote: »

"If the game is Type 1, it can just look like TL and you don't need to see most of that."

If the game is Type 2 (what you're used to and prefer, based on your OP), then it might require multiple UI configs and so on.

And therefore feedback (I think I speak for my whole group on this one) is 'if they are designing a Type 2 game, we agree with you'. If they are designing a Type 1 game, we agree with NiKr, and just expect that you won't enjoy it.

OK, I get what you are saying. They could design the game so that we don't really need to pay attention to countering specific abilities during specific timing windows in order to win, or combo off of things. It is more about positioning and tactics. That would be the type 1 game you are talking about.

I've never played that system so I don't know the pros and cons. But for sure it seems more suitable for large scale pvp as showcased.

Xeeg

Depraved wrote: »

to me, it isnt about showing dr icons or not...i don't really mind. to me, it Is about when do we stop showing things?
at some point, you gonna have 384574857 icons on the enemy that you wont be able to quickly find whatever icon you are looking for.

This is where filter options that suit your character come into play. My rogue only sees bleeds but doesn't show weapon poisons and other effects. That's because my big combos are off the bleeds. And for DRs, I only need to see stun and maybe incapacitate. Don't care about root, or even silence really.

Depraved

Xeeg wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

to me, it isnt about showing dr icons or not...i don't really mind. to me, it Is about when do we stop showing things?
at some point, you gonna have 384574857 icons on the enemy that you wont be able to quickly find whatever icon you are looking for.

This is where filter options that suit your character come into play. My rogue only sees bleeds but doesn't show weapon poisons and other effects. That's because my big combos are off the bleeds. And for DRs, I only need to see stun and maybe incapacitate. Don't care about root, or even silence really.

well, you said it, your combos. but in ashes, your combos depend on what your teammates do. remember cc promotion? so as a rogue, you might have to pay attention to your summoner's poisons on the enemy, because that will make you do extra damage, even if you don't have a poison yourself. maybe you can promote someone else's root into a stun, etc.

as long as the icons are very different from one another, and can be easily identified, then having many of them isn't an issue, I suppose.

Xeeg

-redacted

Xeeg

Depraved wrote: »

well, you said it, your combos. but in ashes, your combos depend on what your teammates do. remember cc promotion? so as a rogue, you might have to pay attention to your summoner's poisons on the enemy, because that will make you do extra damage, even if you don't have a poison yourself. maybe you can promote someone else's root into a stun, etc.

Well let's take the trip mechanic, for example. We already know that a bunch of skills combo off of "tripped" enemies.

Now what happens if the mage in the backline gets tripped, but you can't see that because he has a huge ball lightning and 5 other spell effects on top of him. Would be nice if there was a nameplate icon (Or something else), visible in the heat of battle, toggleable for characters who care about trip and those who don't care, to indicate tripped status.

Then the fighter can use the "Slicing Maim" talent tree to hit him in the backline for double damage, which is the whole point.

As long as it is adjustable then the players can decide for themselves how cluttered they want it.

We can't rely on visual spell effects alone because there are too many and they overlap each other, and the ones we care about might be hidden underneath. Relying on spell effects as the only source of information is "clutter" from my experience. And if you can only see it on your target, then you miss the mage in the backline.

You get 5 mages close together spamming ball lightning and you won't see anything they got on them. Heck, you won't even know what race they are.

Individuated Soul

I loved Lost Ark PvP. Understanding status was very simple due to color flashing and other simple visual indicators. It was then simple to understand what level of CC would and would not work if used, and when the target was vulnerable again. Of course this avoided diminishing returns IIRC. UI wasn't needed and would lend to much larger battles.

Xeeg

Individuated Soul wrote: »

I loved Lost Ark PvP. Understanding status was very simple due to color flashing and other simple visual indicators. It was then simple to understand what level of CC would and would not work if used, and when the target was vulnerable again. Of course this avoided diminishing returns IIRC. UI wasn't needed and would lend to much larger battles.

Yeah. At the end of the day I don't really care "how" they do it, as long as information relevant to my character and choices I make in the middle of battle is indicated in a readily digestible format, and not blocked by 100 useless spell effects that I don't care about for decision making. The way WOW did CC DRs as a hidden mechanic that couldn't be seen without addons is just bad.