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Ashes of Creation Alpha Two lasting at least several Years ? 🤔

AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
5th Minute and 55th Seconds. Or otherwise described as -> 5:55

Since Time-Stamps don't in this Forum when someone puts them in a URL, i hope this helps. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRCha4nfzh4&t=355s



I am never sure what i should think when someone who apparently observes Ashes of Creation since over Two Years according to his Video Section of his YouTube Channel,

and in short probably knows way more than i and has probably observed the Development of Ashes since 2018. :D



Should i be happy ? Or being intimidated ? I am happy if i get to see Alpha Two at all, especially as a Tester. But i know it's just what it is. Testing. Not playing. While i will be happy to see Narc's haunting Words finally proven wrong as it will be a Game in Development that "quite literally exists",

One Year of Testing Alpha Two alone is kinda insane but totally possible when i think about how long the Game is already in Development and People talked like the Open World is just about/over 70% finished or so.


Bugs ? Sure, right. Bring it on, Alpha.
Glitches ? Don't forget to make Screenshots of funny Nonsense, Guys. :mrgreen:
Server-Crashes ?? Damn i hope we get to test at all. We can not help out if we will never perform successful Tests. :D


Please'not'three'Years,please'not'three'Years,please'not'three'Years,please'PLEASE - NOT - THREE - YEARS. :sweat_smile:



I don't often hope that someone is wrong with their Estimation,
but when i do - i hope it WITH A VENGEANCE !!!!!
a50whcz343yn.png
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)

Comments

  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 8
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.

    My only Argument would be -> because it is Alpha Two. Please don't stone me but i think i never heard of any MMO having more than one Alpha.


    Was there also ever a "Beta" lasting several Years ? :open_mouth:
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    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.

    My only Argument would be -> because it is Alpha Two. Please don't stone me but i think i never heard of any MMO having more than one Alpha.


    Was there also ever a "Beta" lasting several Years ? :open_mouth:

    Generally a multi-year beta results in a game that doesn't release at all.

    Not every time, but it's more common than for the game to release.

    A person could argue that it's just mislabeling, though.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 8
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.

    My only Argument would be -> because it is Alpha Two. Please don't stone me but i think i never heard of any MMO having more than one Alpha.


    Was there also ever a "Beta" lasting several Years ? :open_mouth:

    Alpha 1 and 2 are mainly divided to give higher backers an earlier access. As long as a game is not feature complete you can consider it to be in alpha.
    Of course there are dozens of examples where betas take several years, steam early access is also beta. But especially a long alpha is nothing outstanding.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Alpha 1 and 2 are mainly to divided to give higher backers an earlier access.

    This sounds logical. Thanks for letting me know. 🫡

    Garrtok wrote: »
    Of course there are dozens of examples where betas take several years, steam early access is also beta

    AHHHHH. Like V Rising for Example. It will be completed "finally" in May 8th.

    Or like Baldurs Gate Three. But i wonder if i should call that one a Beta because Early Access was only testing Act One from a full Set of Act One, Two and Three. ;)


    Anyways thanks for the helpful Answers. Never thought as Early Access as a Beta before. Of Course it can be used to report Bugs and "test" the Game hence this way before it is officially finished and released.
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    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 9
    There is always a lot of misuse of the terms alpha and beta when it comes to games, and "early access" doesn't help. Intrepid seems to be doing it right though.

    Generally speaking, when it comes to any software, alpha means feature incomplete and potentially with major bugs. You can break it down into further stages, which is also what Intrepid has done with alpha 0, 1 and soon 2. Alpha 0 was like a pre-alpha really, where they tested things like "will the launcher even work?" and "will the servers blow up?" and such. Alpha 1 was a tech alpha, with a lot of network and backend testing, and alpha 2 will also still have that, but also a ton of content testing.

    Once the software/game have all the features implemented, and only minor bug fixing and usability testing is left, we enter the beta stage. Intrepid has beta 1 and 2, which may simply have been in order to have two differently priced packages in the store.

    The early access games we see on steam are a mix of alphas and betas, as far as I have seen. Some are definitely feature incomplete and thus to be regarded as alphas. Baldur's Gate 3 was one such.

    As for the length of alpha 2 testing, my guess/hope is 2 years. I think the 3-4 years take is pushing it, but ultimately a lot comes down to how well Intrepid does their hiring, and how well they keep their talent. Throwing a bunch of skilled people at it will help reduce the time significantly.
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If its several years, they will definitely need to have more access rounds. The sound of people pounding at the door to access A2 will be deafening at that point.
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    It's a strong possibility that the game is still 3 or 4 years off. The evidence I can offer of this is the response that Steven had given in the latest Q&A to my question about ship-collision; The answer he gave and the one that had been on the Wiki at that point were the opposite. This should very much emphasize how little the naval/sea game has been worked on at this point. If it's to be in the initial launch, then there's a LOT of work that would still have to go into it - essentially to the level of a separate MMO, taking place on the seas.

    Would very much be okay with it if naval content was the first expansion, instead. It's always been a "stretch goal".
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tyranthraxus wrote: »
    It's a strong possibility that the game is still 3 or 4 years off. The evidence I can offer of this is the response that Steven had given in the latest Q&A to my question about ship-collision; The answer he gave and the one that had been on the Wiki at that point were the opposite. This should very much emphasize how little the naval/sea game has been worked on at this point. If it's to be in the initial launch, then there's a LOT of work that would still have to go into it - essentially to the level of a separate MMO, taking place on the seas.

    Would very much be okay with it if naval content was the first expansion, instead. It's always been a "stretch goal".




    I mean if it really turns out that way, then I guess that's the way it is.

    I'd be pretty disappointed about no naval gameplay though. That's one of the fearures Im most excited for.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 10
    Could the Alpha last 2 years? Yes.

    Why? Because this phase will mark the end of the core mechanics development.
    The obvious question then becomes what core mechanics are there left in a state where it might take 2 years?
    • The class augment system - hinted at through the talent tree but to the extend of secondary class augments? I doubt it.
    • The weapon and talent trees - it was recently shown, which indicates strong progress in this regard but it is certainly not finished or they would have shown the Fighter using a different weapon as well (IMO)
    • The Node system - so far we have only seen the Kaelan Nodes up to Tier 3, we (observers) have yet to see anything from Nodes of the other races, information on the additional functions of higher tier Nodes are also still quite slim
    • This one is huge: The Naval System. We had a small hint in the Caravan update with them showing that there will be currents pulling rafts, but that is probably one of the "simple" parts since a river is a highly isolated space, where the ocean can be much easier chaotic
    • Archetypes - We are still missing quite a lot of information on the Rogue, Bard and Summoner, which is a prerequisite to fully be done with the class augments
    • Another huge one: Artisanship. Sure we have seen a bit here and there but that was very basic, even when you account for the fact that Intrepid does not intend to fully spoiler the game for us. There are a lot of jobs we can pick up and all of these need a lot of items to harvest, process and craft - systems like hunting, animal husbandry and arcane engineering in itself will probably be quite complex in themselves.
    • We have been told that many regions available during the launch of Alpha 2 will be ~70% done, that means there is still lots to do in finishing these regions as well as making progress on the other regions

    These are the systems that should be largely finished by the end of Alpha 2. But even with all that on the bucket list, IMO there is one last HUGE thing missing that will determine how well this all is going to work together: The system that governs the world dynamics including world events, corruption and also security/anti cheat.
    - The world event system requires a somewhat accurate player count to land mass ratio so that events will be triggered at the desired pace.
    - The corruption system IMO will also be dynamic but it has to be calibrated at some point which I suspect will be during the A2 when for the first time a big number of "random" players will be thrown into the current iteration of the game. So the devs will need to take that time and figure out what is "acceptable" player behavior.
    - The point about acceptable player behavior is also touching on the cyber security/anti cheat topic. Alpha 2 has a good chance to pick specific players, identify them as actual humans and use the data to teach the security system what is within the range of "normal player behavior" to later have an easier time detecting bots

    Lastly: All these systems are playing together and are meant to create a constant flow of change without breaking down into utter chaos, as well as feeling like things are only progressing at a snails pace. To check that and adjust for it, the only thing they can really do is sit back and watch us play through the cycle. Then they may tweak the systems and go through it again.

    Let's say I am right about what needs to be done with 60% of the things listed here. I think even then it wouldn't be crazy to see the Alpha last 2 years.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • AlmostDeadAlmostDead Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 9
    Not gonna watch the vid or read the thousands of words on this page. But I will tell you this:

    A2 will not last several years. 18-24 months. Beta at 3-6 months.

    See you in A2. In the meantime, calm your tits.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tacquito wrote: »
    Not gonna watch the vid or read the thousands of words on this page. But I will tell you this:

    A2 will not last several years. 18-24 months. Beta at 3-6 months.

    See you in A2. In the meantime, calm your tits.

    4adnpmvymv9o.png
    img]
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.

    My only Argument would be -> because it is Alpha Two. Please don't stone me but i think i never heard of any MMO having more than one Alpha.

    Just think of how much more there is to make. How many things aren't finished yet. How much more there is still to do.

    There's masses of work still needs to be done. This is going to be a BIG game. And it's not just about writing the code, either. They'll have to test it internally before it ever hits the Alpha-2 system, and that in itself takes a lot of time.

    The seeds have been planted, and we've seen the shoots. You can't speed up the harvest; it comes when it's ready.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 9
    Tacquito wrote: »
    A2 will not last several years. 18-24 months. Beta at 3-6 months.

    But ... ... ... ... ... ... 24 Months are technically Two Years* - Years as in plural. :mrgreen:



    Anyway Thanks Everyone for participating in this Topic. :smile: like to read your takes on this.
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  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    One needs to ask oneself what each Alpha and Beta is for?

    The first Alpha was about software and server stability. That is why it was centered around mass PVP fighting. From all account the First Alpha was a success.

    One of the primary reasons the second Alpha has taken so long was upgrading the game to Unreal Engine 5. But, that was worth it given this allows the software to do a lot more with less overhead hardware. Basically, easing a lot of data bottlenecks that have plagued other MMOs.

    It is likely the second Alpha will be able Archetypes, PVE game play in a few zones, and PVP. To make sure the basic of the gameplay and mechanics are working, while getting feedback for basic balancing and bug fixing.

    As for how long, it depends on what goals Intrepid have for the second Alpha. Though, it is likely the second Alpha will be six months ago most. Then, Intrepid will move to another Alpha.

    To understand the difference between the Alpha and Beta. Alpha is when the building is still being built, from the foundation, structure, to walls, to plumbing and electrical.

    Beta is when the game is being polished, like the final paint on the building and putting in the furniture. A Beta is a complete game that can function as is, but it still needs a little polish, in the form of bug fixes.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    i dont think alpha 2 will last several years. it will last for about a year or a hear and a half. at that point, people will basically be playing for free and steven will be paying for us to play xD

    beta 1 will probs be 2-4 weeks and beta 2 will be 1 week
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    i dont think alpha 2 will last several years. it will last for about a year or a hear and a half. at that point, people will basically be playing for free and steven will be paying for us to play xD

    beta 1 will probs be 2-4 weeks and beta 2 will be 1 week

    Small Interjection from me here.

    If the Alpha Two will take just looonnng enough -> for all People interested, will we might see a Return of the Pre-Order Packs ?

    Like Pre-Order Packs so someone can join the Beta ? 🤔
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    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    i dont think alpha 2 will last several years. it will last for about a year or a hear and a half. at that point, people will basically be playing for free and steven will be paying for us to play xD

    beta 1 will probs be 2-4 weeks and beta 2 will be 1 week

    Small Interjection from me here.

    If the Alpha Two will take just looonnng enough -> for all People interested, will we might see a Return of the Pre-Order Packs ?

    Like Pre-Order Packs so someone can join the Beta ? 🤔

    This is a little unclear. The Beta preorder packs are still available, aren't they?

    If Alpha-2 goes really long, that doesn't affect Beta preorder packs, does it?
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    This is a little unclear. The Beta preorder packs are still available, aren't they?

    They ARE ??? (O_O)

    If they are somewhere, then i have no Idea where. x'D

    Azherae wrote: »
    If Alpha-2 goes really long, that doesn't affect Beta preorder packs, does it?

    No Idea why it should. If Beta-Preorder Packs will be same as long available as Alpha Two Packs were in comparison before Alpha Two started,

    then the Alpha Two should have absolutely nothing to do with possible Beta-Preorder packs at all.
    Could be wrong though but i can't see any Reason why it should.
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  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No, sorry, it's my error. Latest below:

    Yes. While we anticipate we will reopen the ability to purchase Beta packages in the future, these options will not adopt the same format of regularly recurring monthly exclusive cosmetics as our existing Pre-Order Packages currently offer.[2]
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    The Beta preorder packs are still available, aren't they?
    Pretty sure they aren't :)
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Think Alpha 2 will be longer than the break between Alpha 1 and Alpha 2. Easily.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    I already made my comment regarding the length of Alpha 2 above (TL;DR: there is a good chance that to official Alpha 2 will take around 2-3 years) but I might add at this point:

    Even if they keep the official Alpha 2 Phase to 12-18 months, the Alpha servers will be persistent until launch.
    At least in theory that would allow them to expand and test content during A2, while not going into a longer hiatus at the end of Alpha 2.

    This could shorten the time span until the Beta and launch, but will certainly also cause a lot of stress for Intrepid to manage still rather heavy development and live services at the same time.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.

    My only Argument would be -> because it is Alpha Two. Please don't stone me but i think i never heard of any MMO having more than one Alpha.


    Was there also ever a "Beta" lasting several Years ? :open_mouth:

    I've never heard of an MMORPG only having one alpha.

    They don't usually number them like Intrepid have here - but there are usually dozens to hundreds of alpha tests.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    How is this video relevant? An alpha and beta can last several years, yes - that's normal and I hope everyone here knows this.

    My only Argument would be -> because it is Alpha Two. Please don't stone me but i think i never heard of any MMO having more than one Alpha.


    Was there also ever a "Beta" lasting several Years ? :open_mouth:

    How many alpha milestones did you think "Anthem" had at bioware?

    Generally you aren't going to know the details of many development cycles so I'd imagine that is why you have not heard of them.

    Generally this is all just an alpha stage though for consumers its easier to title it kind of thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    No, sorry, it's my error. Latest below:

    Yes. While we anticipate we will reopen the ability to purchase Beta packages in the future, these options will not adopt the same format of regularly recurring monthly exclusive cosmetics as our existing Pre-Order Packages currently offer.[2]

    I knew something was off. :D
    Well happens, i guess.


    Welp. Alpha Two is already seen my some as we "playing" the Game for free and Sir Steven paying for us. (lol) While i want to take the Testing-for-the-Developers-Part seriously, i personally won't complain for sure.

    Just hope i will not be sick with a nasty Flu again for +14 Days when the Testing hits. Am i just getting old or did the Flu's get worse and nastier since the last Years ?
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    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Am i just getting old

    this-deathmonkeyxl.gif
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 11
    @daveywavey
    I won't even deny that this might be the Case. x'D



    But D~AAYMN the Amount of People who all say " Jeah Alpha Two is taking at LEAST Two Years or Three " and which i have read since the last 48 Hours shot up sky-high in Comparison to what i knew before.


    Some see it as " Us playing the Game for free " (lol) while Sir Steven is paying. Kinda funny and optimistic. I see the Testing as a little bit more serious like always when testing an Alpha or "Beta" is around. ;)

    But damn ... ...
    ... ... two to three Years is like a whole WoW-Expansion Time-Window ... ... x'D
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    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 11
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    ... ... two to three Years is like a whole WoW-Expansion Time-Window ... ... x'D

    But they'd be doing an amount of work that would actually be more than a WoW-Expansion (even if only slightly).

    My estimate personally is four years eight months from start of Alpha-2 to start of Beta-1.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • Neox365Neox365 Member
    Well it depends in what State Alpha 2 will look like later this year i guess?
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