Military node: superpower?

blat

What are people's theories / wishes?

Aszkalon

Sir Steven will likely have a good Reason NOT to make Military Nodes overwhelmingly strong.




Because otherwise the Amounts of bootlicking Players to these Nodes will be +96% of all Players in the Game. Sorry not Sorry for my negative Imagination but it would make Sense.

blat

I really don't see them being the most popular, far from it.
Anyway, let's not make another copy+paste PvP bash thread.

Ideas?

Ludullu

I think this one would be nice for Military nodes, cause it would lead to diplomatic connections, especially if this idea is taken even further with additional ties to what Military nodes might be able to do

NiKr wrote: »

1. The game tracks account-wide PK Count History (i.e. even if your current count is 0, the game would know that you have 10 PKs overall; and the count itself is not account-wide)
2. Military nodes have access to the PKCH of players that have PKd people in the vicinity of allied nodes
3. Other nodes can request the full PKCH list by sending a Mayoral caravan to get it (requires a full back&forth track to do)
4. PKCH info needs to be retaken every month (could be more often)
5. Guards in nodes operate according to the available PKCH
6. Guard power exists on a sliding scale of "can kill a weak mob" to "literally immortal and hits like a truck" (controlled by the mayor choices)
7. Guards are positioned across the node in predetermined places, with a predetermined patrol route
8. Guards aggro onto mobs that enter a certain radius and onto PKers who enter x2 of that radius
9. Guard-killed targets don't drop loot ("killed" here means "Guard did any dmg to the target") and Guards don't aggro onto bosses
10. After a certain PKCH value Guards aggro onto a flagged player with that value
11. If there's been a PK, Guards over a certain lvl (let's say 3/5 minimum) will go to that location and stay there for a certain amount of time
12. Amount of Guards and the duration of their presence in that location is set by the Mayor (debatable)
13. All of the above don't apply to military nodes themselves

As I see it, this would be a player-controlled TL-like system. There'll be nodes that are very good for pvers, but the system itself doesn't remove the possibility of being killed at least once. The economic macro-competition is still present in the form of mayoral actions (and any influence on them by other players), node wars/sieges (wars could have a goal of "destroy the guard post in the node", which disables it for several days) and caravan attacks to prevent the Guards from knowing the latest info about PKCH.

And this would also enforce pve-based micro-competition on the spots themselves, while not removing a casual PKing as the last resort. In other words, your enforcer might not be able to PK as much as yall might need, but a random person can still use the system for their benefit. Obviously this doesn't prevent your entire party going corrupt one after the other, but this too would only be doable up to a certain extent.

I feel like this system would be a nice way to have a not-as-gamey application of TL's events.

Aszkalon

NiKr wrote: »

I think this one would be nice for Military nodes, cause it would lead to diplomatic connections, especially if this idea is taken even further with additional ties to what Military nodes might be

As long as it does not mean that Military Nodes hold a significant Amount of Extra-Influence (Power), i am all for it. Because Sorry (not?) but that is how it somehow read/looked to me.

We don't even KNOW yet what every Type of Node can truly do, do we ?

Am i a Boeotian* when i say it is far to early to demand "ANYTHING" specific for certain Types of Nodes ?

Ludullu

Aszkalon wrote: »

early to demand "ANYTHING" specific for certain Types of Nodes ?

The only thing I demand is the info on those nodes.

Tyranthraxus

Wouldn't mind something like watch-towers and guard-gates, along the road-ways. That way, if a Caravan is under attack, it could try taking cover next to these, and any Caravan-raiders would be under-fire from the NPCs in said watchtowers and gates until the raiders either kill the NPCs or the Caravan tries to continue on its way and exists the protective range of fire of the NPCs. It shouldn't mitigate/lessen damage to the Caravan, however.

This would also provide something extra for the Military-Node residents to build up, asides from the town's normal projects.

blat

Aszkalon wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

I think this one would be nice for Military nodes, cause it would lead to diplomatic connections, especially if this idea is taken even further with additional ties to what Military nodes might be

As long as it does not mean that Military Nodes hold a significant Amount of Extra-Influence (Power), i am all for it. Because Sorry (not?) but that is how it somehow read/looked to me.

We don't even KNOW yet what every Type of Node can truly do, do we ?

Am i a Boeotian* when i say it is far to early to demand "ANYTHING" specific for certain Types of Nodes ?

Yeah we're not demanding, we're speculating.

This is a PvP bash free thread.
All ideas for Military Zones are welcome.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

I think this one would be nice for Military nodes, cause it would lead to diplomatic connections, especially if this idea is taken even further with additional ties to what Military nodes might be able to do

NiKr wrote: »

1. The game tracks account-wide PK Count History (i.e. even if your current count is 0, the game would know that you have 10 PKs overall; and the count itself is not account-wide)
2. Military nodes have access to the PKCH of players that have PKd people in the vicinity of allied nodes
3. Other nodes can request the full PKCH list by sending a Mayoral caravan to get it (requires a full back&forth track to do)
4. PKCH info needs to be retaken every month (could be more often)
5. Guards in nodes operate according to the available PKCH
6. Guard power exists on a sliding scale of "can kill a weak mob" to "literally immortal and hits like a truck" (controlled by the mayor choices)
7. Guards are positioned across the node in predetermined places, with a predetermined patrol route
8. Guards aggro onto mobs that enter a certain radius and onto PKers who enter x2 of that radius
9. Guard-killed targets don't drop loot ("killed" here means "Guard did any dmg to the target") and Guards don't aggro onto bosses
10. After a certain PKCH value Guards aggro onto a flagged player with that value
11. If there's been a PK, Guards over a certain lvl (let's say 3/5 minimum) will go to that location and stay there for a certain amount of time
12. Amount of Guards and the duration of their presence in that location is set by the Mayor (debatable)
13. All of the above don't apply to military nodes themselves

As I see it, this would be a player-controlled TL-like system. There'll be nodes that are very good for pvers, but the system itself doesn't remove the possibility of being killed at least once. The economic macro-competition is still present in the form of mayoral actions (and any influence on them by other players), node wars/sieges (wars could have a goal of "destroy the guard post in the node", which disables it for several days) and caravan attacks to prevent the Guards from knowing the latest info about PKCH.

And this would also enforce pve-based micro-competition on the spots themselves, while not removing a casual PKing as the last resort. In other words, your enforcer might not be able to PK as much as yall might need, but a random person can still use the system for their benefit. Obviously this doesn't prevent your entire party going corrupt one after the other, but this too would only be doable up to a certain extent.

I feel like this system would be a nice way to have a not-as-gamey application of TL's events.

As a concept, I quite like this.

I wouldn't want it to be the metropolis level benefit of military nodes though, as it isn't providing players with a reason to pick that node type to live in. It is more of a benefit to the nodes around it - or at least that is how I understand it.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

I wouldn't want it to be the metropolis level benefit of military nodes though, as it isn't providing players with a reason to pick that node type to live in. It is more of a benefit to the nodes around it - or at least that is how I understand it.

Yeah, this is why I added here that I'd want that idea to taken further, and consider the way the node can benefit from this more directly than just diplomacy.

The idea itself was for a different context initially, hence the weaker relation of it to this thread. But I don't really have a good idea for what I'd prefer as a superpower, but I could see something built upon my idea that could work as one.

Nerror

Big Arenas. What else?

Divine node metro has the mega catacombs, Economic node metros have their linked economy, and Academic node metros have teleports.

So Military node metros will house the big interesting arenas, I think. Maybe linked arenas?

Ludullu

Oh, I know what could be the superpower. PvP championships can only be held in military nodes. So pretty much what Nerror said, except make pvpers come to those nodes on the regular, so that the nodes get business.

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

blat

NiKr wrote: »

Oh, I know what could be the superpower. PvP championships can only be held in military nodes. So pretty much what Nerror said, except make pvpers come to those nodes on the regular, so that the nodes get business.

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

I think they'll pretty much have this with the Military node election equivalent?
Some week-long BGs where candidates and their supporters fight it out. Highest points win.

.. I forget where I read/heard that though.

EDIT:

blat

NiKr wrote: »

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

But yeah this could be sweet.
Reckon there's any chance they'd equalise gear for something like this?

Noaani

blat wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

Reckon there's any chance they'd equalise gear for something like this?

I wouldn't say no, but it is unlikely.

Ludullu

blat wrote: »

I think they'll pretty much have this with the Military node election equivalent?
Some week-long BGs where candidates and their supporters fight it out. Highest points win.

But that's just mayors and stuff. I'm talking about big championships that anyone can participate in. Pretty much arena ladder, but maybe w/o the laddering. Or maybe with it. Either way, coliseum type stuff in military nodes, bread maximus decimus meridius and all.

blat

Noaani wrote: »

blat wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

Reckon there's any chance they'd equalise gear for something like this?

I wouldn't say no, but it is unlikely.

I'd like it for arenas, along the "honour" theme. An actual measure of skill minus the gear check.

Noaani

blat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

blat wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

Reckon there's any chance they'd equalise gear for something like this?

I wouldn't say no, but it is unlikely.

I'd like it for arenas, along the "honour" theme. An actual measure of skill minus the gear check.

The "gear check" is a test of how well you are playing the game as a whole though.

If you have good gear due to earning it, you obviously are good at running the games content.

If you have good gear due to buying it, you are obviously good at profiting from the games economy.

If you were handed good gear, you are obviously good at the social aspects of the game.

Regardless of how you look at it, the quality of your gear is a measure of how good you are at the game as a whole.

Sinder

Noaani wrote: »

blat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

blat wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

Reckon there's any chance they'd equalise gear for something like this?

I wouldn't say no, but it is unlikely.

I'd like it for arenas, along the "honour" theme. An actual measure of skill minus the gear check.

The "gear check" is a test of how well you are playing the game as a whole though.

If you have good gear due to earning it, you obviously are good at running the games content.

If you have good gear due to buying it, you are obviously good at profiting from the games economy.

If you were handed good gear, you are obviously good at the social aspects of the game.

Regardless of how you look at it, the quality of your gear is a measure of how good you are at the game as a whole.

i've never really thought of gear in this context

Otr

blat wrote: »

What are people's theories / wishes?

I would like military nodes to get some bonus when looting destroyed nodes of other types.
And to have ships with a unique feature: to slow down other nearby ships.

blat

Noaani wrote: »

blat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

blat wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Olympic games across the server, in each military node above some lvl!

Reckon there's any chance they'd equalise gear for something like this?

I wouldn't say no, but it is unlikely.

I'd like it for arenas, along the "honour" theme. An actual measure of skill minus the gear check.

The "gear check" is a test of how well you are playing the game as a whole though.

If you have good gear due to earning it, you obviously are good at running the games content.

If you have good gear due to buying it, you are obviously good at profiting from the games economy.

If you were handed good gear, you are obviously good at the social aspects of the game.

Regardless of how you look at it, the quality of your gear is a measure of how good you are at the game as a whole.

Well I'd agree except this is totally discounting the time you're able to commit.

I think it'd be cool to have gear equalised in this one very specific situation, some Military-node competition where it's about honour etc.

The entire rest of the game you'll be wearing your gear. Wpvp, caravans etc etc. Even arenas.
IMO having one single area where gear isn't a factor would be a nice addition.

Dripyula

Just watching this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMAZdKzVr2s

and I do have to say... damn man who can even bother to actually remember all of this before the game launches and allows someone to play?
The mixed feelings continue. Is this overkill with the indepth mechanics, or is it good?
Will it be fun or will it be so overly complicated that it takes most of the fun out of the game?
It annoys me to know the only way to truly find out is to stand before it and play it.



Anyways I do not like the term "vassal node" that much.
Sounds like "slave node" to me, due to realworld parallels.
Hopefully it won't be too much of a pain in the ancients to "git gut" and do "everything profitable" in this game otherwise I can see this backfiring because of this too.

What I hated most about modern WoW is that the game was a job basically.
And that you were never done with any grinds. In fact even in WoW there were so many grinds I didn't knew existed, which I could have done much earlier cause these had rewards I actually wanted, I always felt stupid for my ignorance until then.

Oh boi I sure hope the game won't be so meta when it launches that I feel it is too much.
And hearing that the next Alpha or Beta or whatever it is that comes in Q3 now, will take 2 years... this too seems like a doubleedged sword.
Will it polish the game or make it so deep that it can only entertain players in their teens or tweens with too much freetime and the older generations are horrible disadvantages from the getgo.

Nolifers ya ya ya they will always do everything better or quicker.
But damn I hope it won't be too much of a pain to keep up with that.

RocketFarmer

At first glance at the term Superpower, was assuming you meant world superpower in terms of dominance of other nations, metros, etc.

But for superpower like a feature, I think it really depends on what is selected by the citizens and mayor.

Lot of different types or characteristics of a military power. And power is by definition what a military is intended to project. Do they focus on development of their infantry over say archers, artillery, cavalry, etc.? Is the focus on naval power? Is it a centralized military or one of clans or militia, which might affect the maintenance costs? Is it citizen focused or does it engage in mercenaries or something akin to the French Foreign Legion? If slavery was a thing in AoC, then that’s another historical model (but a facsimile to that might be monsters in your army managed by a corps of animal handlers). As for non-citizens perhaps you go with the Starship Troopers model of service leads to citizenship.

It is a given there is the design to make military aspects the way to select leadership. Other than that, I think the “superpower” is really up to the choices made. And those choices should be governed by the overall economy of the world. There is a price to be paid in focusing on war long term and even short term. It is a destructive force, so a well run military node will need to have at least one hedge against economic hardship, like say a valuable resource others are willing to trade for.

Some obvious options for military nodes might be the numbers of certain types of crafting buildings associated with military. But again, what goes into those “slots” are player-based decisions.

I think there should be some military aesthetics in the buildings and even the roadways. Perhaps even reinforced construction it the asset is destructible. That might include watch towers if you can afford them.

Arenas and military academies would be a no brainer. A PVP arena where the winner can gain access to resources and services to craft better gear. Beyond just bragging rights. Spectator gambling on these contests. Contests against beasts/monsters, including those nearly impossible matches for players to test their skill (and maybe for the devs to data farm for AI improvements over time). My opinion is that there needs to some kind of unpredictable behavior for a monster to differentiate one of the same kind from another. So I think the value of the arenas for monster matches should be to help develop better overall play experience that cuts both ways - for the players and against.

Aszkalon

NiKr wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

early to demand "ANYTHING" specific for certain Types of Nodes ?

The only thing I demand is the info on those nodes.

🫡 🫡 🫡

I think Information about Nodes is what i personally am most thirsty for from all Information regarding Ashes of Creation.

blat

RocketFarmer wrote: »

At first glance at the term Superpower, was assuming you meant world superpower in terms of dominance of other nations, metros, etc.

But for superpower like a feature, I think it really depends on what is selected by the citizens and mayor.

Each of the 4 node types will have a "superpower" at max level.

"Each node type has a superpower (ultimate ability) that becomes unlocked when the node reaches Metropolis (stage 6)."

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_benefits

CROW3

blat wrote: »

All ideas for Military Zones are welcome.

Rubicon

This is a military node’s ultimate commitment to conquering a neighboring node by force.

When activated, a horde equal to 10% of the military node’s treasury balance of level 1 dwarves will be summoned and sent to attack the targeted node and its citizens.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

early to demand "ANYTHING" specific for certain Types of Nodes ?

The only thing I demand is the info on those nodes.

SOON

Voeltz

While Colosseums would be cool to see, I don't think that's superpower worthy if you compare it to the other node types. Not unless they're also a reliable way of earning high end gear with unique rewards. Instead I think Colosseums should be POIs with static locations on the map like Harbors. I think the Military superpower should make them better at PvP/Wars or encourage it. Things like war campaigns that can be initiated by the mayor to provide incentives to citizens to participate (gold and xp), similar to mayoral commissions, reinforced defences (stronger guards, walls and gates), battle standards that can be carried into battle to provide group buffs. Now that I'm saying it, all of these just sound like perks of being a military node. I'm struggling to come up with a single thing that would be on par with the others though.

Aszkalon

blat wrote: »

Each of the 4 node types will have a "superpower" at max level.

"Each node type has a superpower (ultimate ability) that becomes unlocked when the node reaches Metropolis (stage 6)."

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_benefits

W-WHAT the ???




And just like that, i like Nodes a bit more.
Again.

Read that Military Node allows (potentially) reduced duration of Corruption. Interesting.
If this would be allowed, this will likely desired by People who want to gank Others in the Open World.

oOKingOo

I think node types, in general, won't be stronger or weaker than other ones. Instead, they unlock different features that attract different types of players, which will then also have an effect. But no node type will be a powerhouse compared to another node type.

Military nodes will be focused on developing your skills and class and thus will be visited by all types of players (just like every other node type, as they all have different things everybody needs). However, the people living in the node will likely be those who enjoy combat and/or PvP. So naturally, a military node will probably be stronger to conquer than another node, but the most important factor is still node size and soft power. If many people are dependent on a node, then many people will defend it. Military nodes will also have NPC guards, which will help in defending and again make the military node harder to conquer. However, it won't be impossibly hard since they are just NPCs at the end of the day.
Military nodes will unlock bounty hunters, which will attract people who enjoy PvP but also don't want to be PKers. This could have an effect, such as making your area safer to travel to because you have more players willing to defend caravans around your node.

I think militarry nodes will be stronger in battle and harder to conquer then other nodes probably but not in a way that they are unbeatable. Also a militarry node without friends is a weak node. In general you will want at least one friendly node of every type around you to have access to everything you need.

Kilion

In my mind the sum of all player activities determines the value of a certain Node type. To explain more closely: I expect servers to develop their individual "culture", there will be servers where most players are more focused on PvE others where people are more focused on PvP and those where the players are more or less evenly divided or completely embracing the PvX. This will earn them a reputation in the given direction, keeping away some sort of player and attracting others of certain kinds.

And with that as the base assumption: Since military nodes will offer exclusive benefits to the ZOI, in some server "cultures" they will be in higher demand than in others. Equally, military Nodes may become more important on any kind of server when a big Node falls during a siege as the player migration causes more conflict.

But overall I don't think that Military Nodes are inherently superior to other Node types.