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Intrepid - Time spent travelling?
Xeeg
Member, Alpha Two
I know that large map size is a defining feature of Ashes of Creation and serves multiple functions which are important to many of the interconnected systems. Travel time, and lack of fast travel, are also major core features since the beginning of the game concept.
Part of the reason is due to the time sink and inconvenience of travelling across the map. Maybe you only have an hour to play so you don't want to spend 30m of that travelling. Maybe you think 30m of holding W and steering a char is boring AF. It's not something most people like doing.
Just think about what often constitutes as "punishment" in these types of games, typically at least running back to your body after death. And it is considered "punishment" because running across a map feels tedious and boring.
Now doesn't this pose a bit of a problem? How much time are we really spending travelling as opposed to combat or town stuff?
Does Intrepid have a good sense of what a typical player time % will be spent travelling or straight W running from A to B? Maybe the first time it is a fun adventure through an area but the 5th time you do it and you are running for 5-10 mins straight it starts to lose its appeal.
If its something like more than 70% of time spent is travelling rather than combat, then travelling MUST be fun somehow. Otherwise most of the game time is spent doing something considered a punishment lol. Our whole progression paths and MMO efforts are spent on things we are only doing 30% of the time or whatever.
Part of the reason is due to the time sink and inconvenience of travelling across the map. Maybe you only have an hour to play so you don't want to spend 30m of that travelling. Maybe you think 30m of holding W and steering a char is boring AF. It's not something most people like doing.
Just think about what often constitutes as "punishment" in these types of games, typically at least running back to your body after death. And it is considered "punishment" because running across a map feels tedious and boring.
Now doesn't this pose a bit of a problem? How much time are we really spending travelling as opposed to combat or town stuff?
Does Intrepid have a good sense of what a typical player time % will be spent travelling or straight W running from A to B? Maybe the first time it is a fun adventure through an area but the 5th time you do it and you are running for 5-10 mins straight it starts to lose its appeal.
If its something like more than 70% of time spent is travelling rather than combat, then travelling MUST be fun somehow. Otherwise most of the game time is spent doing something considered a punishment lol. Our whole progression paths and MMO efforts are spent on things we are only doing 30% of the time or whatever.
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If your goal is to support your node - you do all your activities there and travel times are short as hell.
If your goal is doing quests - we saw the tasks being updated on the fly, so I see why other quests couldn't be.
If your goal is farming mobs in a spot - afaik the respawn is at the nearest PoI location, which would then be not too far from that node's center, so overall the travel distance is short. And if you've decided to farm a node that's far from yours - you should account for that beforehand and maybe spend some time traveling to that node at the end of your previous gaming session.
If your goal is gathering - that's already an inherent travel activity, so the excitement of it will depend on how well the gatherables are distributed, which in turn depends on what kind of gameplay Intrepid want their gatherers to have. Is it a dangerous track across the lands where the chances of getting ganked are higher or is it an "all you need is in this field" approach. Imo both are valid in their own way.
Caravans, sieges, wars, trading gameplay - all require proper planning and all include their travel-related dangers, so I'd expect them to feel more thrilling than a random run through the fields on your way to a quest point.
And any exploratory goal would mostly depend on how well Intrepid distribute content over the lands. And as dev streams have shown already, there's not only a fairly good amount of different mobs across the lands, but interaction with those mobs can trigger local events and even questlines, so even if you're just roaming around I'd expect you to have enough fun doing random shit that traveling between 2 points wouldn't feel as dull.
And all of this also matters in the context of server fullness. I assume you're bringing this up due to your recent MO2 experience, and, as you said in another thread, that's a 700-palyer experience right now, which is abysmally low for an mmo. So if Ashes happens to "die", I'm sure that it might feel just as empty and boring as MO2 does.
Though the situation might still be a bit better cause of how nodes will concentrate player population and how they'll influence what kind of quests you can get. In other words, the game will probably be more local than what MO2 might be right now (though I haven't played it, so I don't really know if this is true).
Well my point is that it is more about fun. Controlling a character in combat is fun, that's part of the reason we like it and why most of the game is designed around combat.
Controlling a character running on a road with a couple turns here and there is not that fun.
If you spent 17m doing the latter and 3m doing the former, your game is mostly "not that fun".
Maybe you can use the time spent travelling to zone chat or something else but its not like the "fun" part of the game. This is why WoW evolved to have queues for dungeons and arenas. It's not that players are "lazy" and just don't like to talk to each other or something. We just don't like spending 20-30m boring travelling in order to play the fun part.
This is also what Dragonflight got right as well. Flying the dragons was fun, and the open world content was so much better for it. Actually brilliant design imo.
I get your point about having goals and achieving goals. My point is that the tools used to achieve those goals should be the "fun" part of the game, and that includes travelling, especially if we spend most of our time doing it.
Gliders will exist in Ashes.
Ashes will be a series of nodes that provide you with stuff to do, all of which will be closer to dungeons that you want to farm. And then those dungeons will, supposedly, have respawn locations that are closer than what WoW has (though I've only done corpse runs in the first few locations, so I dunno if that got "fixed" later).
But I do agree that mounts should have some interactive abilities that make the movement process itself more interesting.
You're going to end up doing things that are nearby your home node.
Eventually, wherever I do settle somewhere very far away I hope I hear “Where’d that dwarf come from?’
I can't wait to dig into animal husbandry. I will be specializing in traversal mounts! Looks like you'll likely be one of my customers
I actually disagree with this general premise, at least sort of.
If the map is full and exciting, then traveling will be much harder because you will keep being compelled to do other things on the way.
The point of traveling is to get to where you want to go. With limited fast travel, the map should be designed in a way where players aren't faced with any interruptions at all if people stay on the main path (PvP excluded).
Sure, there can be all the distraction in the world if you leave that main path (and indeed there should be - those distractions are what I would refer to as 'the game'), but without much fast travel, manual travel needs to be made as straightforward as it possibly can be.
This obviously gives those wanting the possibility of distractions back paths to take, and perhaps there could be shortcuts if you leave the main path and all - but that main path needs to be as empty and boring as possible, not full and exciting.
I remember playing Star Trek: Online, and going from place to place was just pointing in a direction and starting your engines. Then you'd just sit there and wait, and wait, and wait, until you eventually got there. And it was fricking boring. There was just nothing to do other than wait to arrive. Which was fine, sure, cos that's where you were heading, but it would have been nice to have something to do or to look at or to take my interest while I was getting there.
I agree with you here on keeping map exciting. I love how there are constant "distractions" in GW2 when you travel. It keeps you playing and coming back. I prefer that over traveling through a dead wasteland.
Traveling will be fast.
There will be mounts and family summon. Scientific metros will even allow teleportation:
Academic nodes that have reached Metropolis (stage 6) unlock teleportation within their vassal network, which can extend across seas, and also include islands.[5][6][7]
Only resource /material movement on the map via caravans will be slow, to create local economies.
I herewith Apologise for Everyone NOT mighty of the german Language,
(( and i have You know i say "mighty" about every Language, not just the german One. ))
But " Phönix Bote ", or in English likely named " Phoenix Envoy/Messenger " mentioned the same.
Travelling - " running around from Point A.) to Point B.) " - will apparently be - ( and i am thankful for that, be a thing in Ashes of Creation. At least if you want to GET SOMEWHERE. Quite LITERALLY. )
But this doesn't mean it's just another Time-sink if you don't "CHOOSE" to grind the hell out of it. There will be SO. MUCH. Stuff. to do, in the World of Verra.
( Please tell me if You want to have any Sections translated of this Video if You are curious. I am German, so i can give my very best - (promise) - to translate Sections to You. But all of the Video at once is a bit much for me. Just saying this Video addresses also very much how much "Travelling" might be a mighty thing in the World of Ashes and Verra. )
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
This is my point exactly. The "distractions" and side quests in Ashes are designed for players who are going out in the world just looking for things to do. These side quests are not designed for the player who is trying to meet up with their friend 2 nodes over. All that does is make your friend have to wait longer before you can meet up. Stopping to do side quests along the way is a pretty dick move.
I can understand that some areas may be level gated behind mob packs here and there, that's not what I am talking about.
Also, a big part of Ashes design is that different nodes have different vendors or different crafters, etc. Travelling WILL be a big part of Ashes as it is core to the design of the game. All I am asking the devs to do is seriously consider the time spent running as opposed to other activities and ensure that Ashes isn't a "Running Simulator" as the German video described. Or if it is, make it fun or auto-runable.
They will have internal tests from level 0 to level 20 and be able to tell how much time spent is just running from A to B rather than doing the thing at A or B. If that time is over 50% of playtime then they need to consider this concept.
If mounts are the answer to the "fun" part of travelling, that's great. Just as long as we don't have to sink 125/250 hours of slow walking before we hit level 50 and get a mount.
I believe you will find that this is what you are talking about.
I am saying they should be far enough away from the main path so that players wanting to just get somewhere won't have to avoid mobs and such.
The path should be a path. Actual travel - specifically going from where you are to where you want to be - should be boring. If it isn't, you don't get to where you want to be.
Here is where we may disagree. There are racing games like mario cart, or flight simulator games which can be a lot of fun. There are ways to make the travelling fun. I'm assuming mounts will be part of the solution here.
But your point is somewhat valid as well. If your goal is to get from A to B, and its going to take 15 minutes, does pushing more buttons make it any more fun? I dunno, but holding shift-W for 15 mins straight while steering a slow moving character ain't it for me.
Driving to work is more fun than that.
This is why I've also thought about an optional "auto-run" feature which locks you onto the road path or something to get from node A to B. At least with that you can chat with guildies, bathroom break, or grab a snack or something.
Not sure how they are going to address this, but its been a problem for me in other games.
So you can just hop on a mount and go pee and make coffee, and hope you won't get attacked.
Well looks like they thought of everything, hey?
well, I agree with you in a sense. i prefer spending time in combat than holding w (same goes for questing ahhaha) but I can see why no instant traveling would be good for aoc.
the issue isn't instant traveling itself for players who don't have many hours to play every day, the issue is the necessity of having to move great distances. if you can only play for a couple of hours a day, and then you can simply do everything you want to do within your vicinity, then traveling times arent an issue.
Once again the Idea and Concept (lol) of "Others" who may defend your Character, becomes a very enticing thought.
Or Escort NPC's like with some Caravans. Personally i hope there "WILL" be Bandit-like Players who may attack "Travel-Carts" or whatever even if the Inside is not Wares but other Players. 😁
It might give Players something to do who thirst for PvP all the time. Like some PvP-Guilds offering their Service against Coin to escort People who want to "Afk" during being travelled somewhere.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I mean, if you are still subject to PvP here (which I assume to be the case), I wouldn't be using this.
You log in and you get the message:
"The caravan was destroyed 5 hours ago. You are in a crate. If you are a bard you can try singing."
or
"The caravan was destroyed. Resource sink (HR) disposed you. You have +1 free alt slots."
Welp, if you can travel a few Hours in one Piece - you may catch up to them. If things like hostile NPC's and Players don't block your Path repeatedly.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Insulting someone because your game is boring doesn't make it more enjoyable to play. You sound like the mortal online community.
Going back to town to sell, train, turn in/get quests, deposit mats, etc are the real travel time sink. This happens over and over, and are likely to be crossing the same territory you've already crossed over and over. This is the boredom we want to avoid. And it's possible to do quest/farming loops that land you back at town at the end. But at that point your entire gameplay is more boring because you're in a preset loop.
Corpse runs are part of this too, but that's a punishment run and has it's own distance set by the location of rez points.
It's possible that the terrain will change often enough via various mechanics like nodes leveling up and zone quests starting and completing that travel won't suck.
Hopefully Intrepid will implement some kind of Town-recall feature with sufficient penalty. IE, you burn 2x death penalty (maybe only gather-stuff lost, not xp penalty) as a sacrifice to the Gods to go to town.
You’re going to know every inch of your home node just by the volume of travel between adventures, gathering, and node events. This is a good thing in the long run as the node develops and other nodes start encroaching on your home.
Given the craftsmanship of the natural environments, I’m looking forward to slowing down to actually enjoy taking a look around. Since I don’t plan on settling anywhere for a while, Verra will be novel and interesting for quite some time.