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Unreal Engine 5.4

NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited April 19 in General Discussion
We got a sneak peek at UE 5.4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-k9bYsta0
  • He mentioned nanite and lumen performance improvements of 2x compared to UE 5.0. Awesome for sieges and the big nodes.
  • Some things look better now, like a heterogeneous volume improvement.
  • And there's a lot of work on animations in the engine that I hope can translate to a faster development time for Ashes. Not my field of expertise though, so I don't really know.
  • And a new cool audio tool

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yes. UE 5 is am exceptional tool. 5.4 even more so. I would encourage the devs to snatch 5.4 when feasible. I realise a2 might be too close to get 5.4 in time for a2.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Kind of on-the-fence about all the UE updates. Didn't Steven at one point mention that there had been a major delay in development in going from 4.23 to 4.25?

    After a certain point, it really seems like the launch-version of the engine to be using should be set in stone, and then later add-ons and expansions can feature the needed adjustments.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 19
    MOST of this stuff is experimental you do NOT use it for DEVELOPMENT. Not to mention this is preview build (meaning 5.4 has not released yet but they let people test things and report bugs, and help fix issues in the meantime). Just because you see a new version doesn't mean it is used in a game right away as things can be unstable or not fully working properly / optimized.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 19
    This is what most people are freaking out about

    u6lt4c1wn9n7.png

    qct79f0m7mx9.png


    Though this won't be getting removed most likely some thing could change how it works +optimization or other others. For any experimental feature there is a general warning

    n22j9wfbuicx.png

    If it was just to test it out to see how it works or understand the pipeline that is fine. But its different when you are talking about development.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Who said anything about using it in an experimental state. I said when it is feasible. Who wouldn't want double the performance of nanite and Lumen?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Songcaller wrote: »
    Who said anything about using it in an experimental state. I said when it is feasible. Who wouldn't want double the performance of nanite and Lumen?

    I hope you realize it being experimental in 5.4 means you have a chance it wont be in 5.5. So to say for them to use that feature in 5.4 would mean you have to be suggesting for them to use experimental features in development.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It will be in 5.5 because performance on ue titles has been very poor hence why epic have focussed on these performance improvements. Its experimental because they don't want developers releasing the tech in the current rendition due to the negative issue of performance already in situ.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • ApokApok Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tyranthraxus wrote: »
    Kind of on-the-fence about all the UE updates. Didn't Steven at one point mention that there had been a major delay in development in going from 4.23 to 4.25?

    After a certain point, it really seems like the launch-version of the engine to be using should be set in stone, and then later add-ons and expansions can feature the needed adjustments.




    you might be thinking of the UE4 to UE5 move
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tyranthraxus wrote: »
    Kind of on-the-fence about all the UE updates. Didn't Steven at one point mention that there had been a major delay in development in going from 4.23 to 4.25?

    After a certain point, it really seems like the launch-version of the engine to be using should be set in stone, and then later add-ons and expansions can feature the needed adjustments.
    Typically, Steven will say that the upgrade should provide tools that will make dev faster, but...
    But... it's been 3 years between Alpha One and Alpha Two.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Sometimes short term delays is needed for long term good of the game health. Steven will know what's best for the game.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 22
    LMAO
    Steven has never released a game before, so... no... he knows nothing about delays and their impacts on scheduling.
    I wouldn't call 3 years a short term delay.
  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    I think it's difficult to say if 3 years between A1 and A2 is actually too long or too little without knowing what will the game state will be on release of A2.

    A1 was ridiculously barebones in comparison. Very little system, basic combat with just skills, three classes? I suppose it also wasn't particularly asset/content rich.

    A2 obviously has a very notable facelift already across the board, the game's scope is huge. I am no white knight and will quite happily point out flaws - what I would say is that if they'd stayed on UE4, I wouldn't be surprised if we were still either waiting for A2, or barely entered it.

    --

    On the actual topic - any improvements to the UE5 game engine should absolutely be taken advantage of where able. I think intrepid are on 5.2 currently the wiki seems to back this up. The bigger the game gets, I suppose there are more adjustments needed to get the new version working properly but in some cases if optimisations have been made between versions, that should just be a straight win. The game has big goals with the large scale pvp so it needs to have the best performance it can afford to get.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I dunno what "too long" means.

    Kickstarter was 2017 and Steven said the game was already farther along than most previous MMORPGs due to using the tools in the Unreal Engine. Steven stated very emphatically that Ashes would release before 2020.

    In 2021, after Alpha One, Steven announced they would be upgrading to the most recent version of Unreal Engine, but that would give the devs the tools they need to create faster than ever before, so that should not cause major delays to Alpha 2. I could never have imagined that 3 years in between was even possible.
    Especially since I played some version of Ashes every year from 2017 - 2021.

    If they had stayed on UE4, they would likely be closer to release.
    Features would not be as robust.

    Feature creep is real.
    They can try to keep up with new UE updates forever... and never release.
    At some point, you have to make the decision to stop the feature creep.

    But, the crux of what I said is that an upgrade to the most recent version of UE is always likely to cause significant delays. And Stephen has proven many times that he is not capable of properly evaluating the impact of those upgrades on the schedule.

    That is a side topic to whether or not the devs should make the upgrade.
    10 years is a reasonable time frame for a good MMORPG. And we are on year 7.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 24
    2077 people be like we need unreal engine 7.8 for the VR update, updated procedural lighting, Think animation update!

    Star citizen officially welcomes AoC into the fold.

    Aoc devs to star citizen "What happen to your backers?"
    Star citizen devs to AoC devs "Its about time, its our greatest weapon. We have ascended our mortal bodies, while our backers were lost to the force of time. The future is now" ~android eyes light up in the dark~
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Songcaller wrote: »
    It will be in 5.5 because performance on ue titles has been very poor hence why epic have focussed on these performance improvements. Its experimental because they don't want developers releasing the tech in the current rendition due to the negative issue of performance already in situ.

    * Holds Mic to dear Songcaller *

    " What will be able to expect in Two or Three Years when Ashes might release ? "



    :D
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think we'll get the full ue5 suite eventually. No need to switch to ue6 or ue7 unless the devs really want to. However, we'd have gotten the full ue4 suite so a full ue5 suite should be aimed for. These updates can come with expansions too though.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SengardenSengarden Member, Alpha Two
    These updates can come at any time before or after release - however the team decides they fit into the priority list. I'm pretty sure most (if not all) of us are unable to give an accurate estimation of how long the transition to any other UE version would take down to the month, given that none of us are on this specific game's development team in the year 2024, working with technology that has drastically evolved over the last 5 years alone.

    Personally, I hope they get to it at some point in order to implement the more detailed ground features. The ground do be looking pretty flat atm, and in most MMOs. Would be a pretty major graphical improvement to the genre. One of those thing's you don't always consciously appreciate when it's good, but absolutely changes how impressive the game looks overall.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 25
    A new video for better showcasing the animation changes. It looks like it'll save time for new stuff they need to animate at the very least. My guess is it'll help with fine-tuning all the stuff they've already done too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIbo84jhOU
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    5.4 is a really big leap forward. I'm am instreated to see what Steven does about this.
  • Night WingsNight Wings Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    A new video for better showcasing the animation changes. It looks like it'll save time for new stuff they need to animate at the very least. My guess is it'll help with fine-tuning all the stuff they've already done too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIbo84jhOU

    I don't know much about all this, but I am curious how difficult is it to upgrade and move all the work done to another patch/version. I know they already done it in the past, but was it basically a click of a button? I'm sure its probably little more then that, but if it is like that every 5-10 patches I can imagine it be basically a new game even when ashes of creation is completely finished.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    A new video for better showcasing the animation changes. It looks like it'll save time for new stuff they need to animate at the very least. My guess is it'll help with fine-tuning all the stuff they've already done too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIbo84jhOU


    The "Biome-Generator" Part/Timestamp catched my Eyes the most. ;) This can help out the Ashes Developers GREATLY. :sunglasses:
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • patrick68794patrick68794 Member, Alpha Two
    Night Wings wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    A new video for better showcasing the animation changes. It looks like it'll save time for new stuff they need to animate at the very least. My guess is it'll help with fine-tuning all the stuff they've already done too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIbo84jhOU

    I don't know much about all this, but I am curious how difficult is it to upgrade and move all the work done to another patch/version. I know they already done it in the past, but was it basically a click of a button? I'm sure its probably little more then that, but if it is like that every 5-10 patches I can imagine it be basically a new game even when ashes of creation is completely finished.

    It can be a huge amount of effort to upgrade to a new version of a game engine like that, even on small hobby projects. It is never as simple as clicking a button. They would have to at the very least do full regression testing to make sure the upgrade didn't break anything or change how anything works when compared to the previous version. It could potentially cost them weeks where no new development is happening because of issues, bugs, or changes in functionality caused by the upgrade. The larger and more complex a project is, the more effort and time this would take, and MMOs are about as large and complex as video games can get.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Night Wings wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    A new video for better showcasing the animation changes. It looks like it'll save time for new stuff they need to animate at the very least. My guess is it'll help with fine-tuning all the stuff they've already done too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aIbo84jhOU

    I don't know much about all this, but I am curious how difficult is it to upgrade and move all the work done to another patch/version. I know they already done it in the past, but was it basically a click of a button? I'm sure its probably little more then that, but if it is like that every 5-10 patches I can imagine it be basically a new game even when ashes of creation is completely finished.

    it depends. unreal uses semantic versioning. long story short, upgrading from unreal 4 to 5 will be difficult and break the game. lots of stuff will stop working and you need to replace the code. for example, you can have something like
    doSomethingInUnrealFour()

    and that might not work anymore, then you have to track it and replace it with:
    doTheSameThingInUnrealFive()

    you could also have a doSomething in 4 and 5 and they can do completely different things, so you need to make sure that these things are doing what you want internally.

    upgrading from unreal 5.2 to 5.3 shouldn't break the game. you still want to check and make sure, but for the most part, things should be fine, and it's much faster than upgrading from 4 to 5.

    then you can have something like 5.3.1 to 5.3.2. these are just bug fixes that shouldn't break the game.
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