Espionage - and related issues with main characters, alts, guilds, housing and citizenship

Depraved

NiKr wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

and I remember steven said the longest duration for a buff in ashes will be 30 minutes. but I've seen cleric buffs last for only a few seconds. I'm just waiting to see the bard to see if we gonna need to dual box one or not.

Like I said, if buffs are long - get your own and you'll win. But in a case where buffs are equal - 2 people damaging you is bigger than 1

but buffs will not be equal...we've already seen low duration buffs.

we both agree than the dual boxer has an advantage. we disagree on how the fight will go. the box might not have gear..i mean sure 2 people damaging you > 1, but always? imagine I have a sws with non grade gear and you are a gladi or a dagger or an archer. is that really a threat to you? only my main char will be a threat to you.

also, I think we wont have macors in ashes, so you cant do the assist macros that you could in l2. you wont even have auto attacks in ashes, you have to press the attack button for each attack, so it will be kind of hard for a multiboxer to attack you constantly with 2 chrs, unless he is using software to assist him. and again, the 2nd char might not even be a threat (it could be sometimes, sure). maybe you just aoe spam and kill them both? lol

anyways, my point is that the big threat in aoc wont be 2 chars with the same owner trying to fight you, it will be one char buffing the main on who will fight and own you.

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

anyways, my point is that the big threat in aoc wont be 2 chars with the same owner trying to fight you, it will be one char buffing the main on who will fight and own you.

If buffs are seconds long, this entire interaction depends on what kind of setup the multiboxer has. Is it alt+tab switching? Is it PC-based macros for several keyboards (which is supposedly forbidden, but how exactly would that be tracked)? Is it several PCs all directly next to each other with several keyboards on the table and several screens in eyeshot?

All of those would determine how quickly would the multiboxer switch to their support to upkeep the buff. Considering how fucking short the current ttk is - even a second of delay could mean death for the multiboxer. And if he's buffing himself while flagged - that's a +2 pvp for the opponent

Either way, this entire interaction would only exist if the attack consciously walked up to a dude of the same archetype (if not even a stronger match-up), who also has obvious buffers next to him - and decided to fight them. That attacker was either sure he could take the multiboxer (or maybe a party of people) on or he was dumb enough to not know the game well and picked a wrong target.

And this is not even discussing all the other possibilities of these kinds of encounters, considering that we know jack shit about jack shit. As much as I love comparing Ashes to L2 - there's no direct confirmation that this particular part of its design will be anywhere near to L2's.

Depraved

but thats what i was saying to nooani...it depends on the buff duration and the power of the buffs.
I'm not talking about a scenario where buffs would only last a few seconds.beating a multiboxer in that scenario could be easier, unless the multiboxer never overextends and just stays close to his box healing himself and buffing.

i am talking about in the scenario where buffs last for several minutes. you can argue that the player with no boxes can get buffs in town and equalize the fight, sure. but not really. remember dances and songs? they were pretty strong. they didn't last long enough for you to get them in town then go to a farming spot, but they lasted long enough to win a PVP at a farming spot if you had a boxed bd or sws. in that case, the boxed character didn't even need to attack... so you are just basically doing a 1v1 but the other person is much stronger than you.

anyways, a different scenario would be me using a spoiler and a shillen elder. I'm using the spoiler and just boxing the SE to buff, mana and heal. if pvp happens, I just make the spoiler auto attack my target and use a stun macro and then I switch to the SE and play the SE as main. root, heals, mana burns, stigma, etc. in that case, you have 2 characters attacking you, but basically, the DD becomes the box, and the box becomes the main. you cant do that in ashes. no macros, no auto attacks. maybe you can have one hand on each keyboard and press 12345 on each. sure in that case you could win a difficult 1v2 vs 2 dd. but I'm no talking about 2 dd, I'm talking about a buffer and a dd where you ONLY play with the dd and use the buffer as a buff bot.

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

he isn't going to try to attack you with all his accounts, he will simply use the mage. the other characters only serve as buff bots and they can just stay there without moving or even relog after buffing and come back in 20 minutes for the next buff round.

If the game leaves players in a situation where they can buff other characters up to that point and log off with those buffs remaining, then those buffs will be considered a standard part of playing the game. People will be selling those buffs all over the place, and the assumption would be that everyone has them basically all the time.

If a character is able to get buffs from alts and then have them log off, that isn't going up against a multiboxer, it is going up against a regular, prepared player.

Where multiboxing becomes useful is in the shorter term buffs and heals.

While a long term buff may increase my spell damage by 5% (a fairly powerful buff if I can have it up all the time), a short term buff with a long reuse may increase the damage of my next spell by 50% (a less powerful buff over time, but much more powerful in the moment). This is the kind of thing that makes multiboxing worth having.

Thus, the method to defeat this player is exactly the same as I have outlined in the past. Make it so this player no longer has access to their buff bots, leaving you in a position where you are fighting someone of the same class as you, but you are used to fighting on your own, while they are used to fighting with those additional buffs.

You now absolutely have the upper hand.

Depraved

Noaani wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

he isn't going to try to attack you with all his accounts, he will simply use the mage. the other characters only serve as buff bots and they can just stay there without moving or even relog after buffing and come back in 20 minutes for the next buff round.

If the game leaves players in a situation where they can buff other characters up to that point and log off with those buffs remaining, then those buffs will be considered a standard part of playing the game. People will be selling those buffs all over the place, and the assumption would be that everyone has them basically all the time.

If a character is able to get buffs from alts and then have them log off, that isn't going up against a multiboxer, it is going up against a regular, prepared player.

Where multiboxing becomes useful is in the shorter term buffs and heals.

While a long term buff may increase my spell damage by 5% (a fairly powerful buff if I can have it up all the time), a short term buff with a long reuse may increase the damage of my next spell by 50% (a less powerful buff over time, but much more powerful in the moment). This is the kind of thing that makes multiboxing worth having.

Thus, the method to defeat this player is exactly the same as I have outlined in the past. Make it so this player no longer has access to their buff bots, leaving you in a position where you are fighting someone of the same class as you, but you are used to fighting on your own, while they are used to fighting with those additional buffs.

You now absolutely have the upper hand.

yes, I agree with you. however, you might not always get buffs from people in town. also, as I mentioned to nirk (dances and songs) there might be powerful buffs that do not last a long time (20 mins or so) to get them in town and go to a farming spot, but last long enough to win a fight at a farming spot if you are dual boxing.

if buffs last 20-30 mins, then you can get them in town and the dual boxer has no buff advantage. if they only last a few seconds, then you can use a stun, back off a bit, etc, and attack when he tries to buff again or try to kill his buff bot, etc etc. but if the buffs last something like 1-5 mins, and they are somewhat powerful, you will probably never win the fight vs the dual boxer, all he has to do is stay close to his buffer all the time. if you back off, he can heal and rebuff, and if you get close, he fights with the upper hand. we also have the issue of cc promotion.

but anyways, I guess we will know for sure in a2, that's why I keep asking on every stream if bard buffs will be as necessary as they were in l2, I need to know if imma have to dual box or not ughhh.