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Armor types and how they function

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Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    Guess we just found out the real problem here... You think people write comments here to make critiques.
    And in reality - people make comments to offer ideas that IS can take even small part of those ideas if it will help them make the game better.
    It's a critique if you think the current design needs to be better.
    A rose by any other name is still a rose.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 10
    Lashing wrote: »
    Might as well not post on the forums at all if that is the case. Armor type choice as a meta discussion is a topic worth bringing up regardless of their current design.
    It's worth bringing up whatever you think is worth bringing up.
    There is also value in pointing out ignorant suggestions.
  • GithalGithal Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's a critique if you think the current design needs to be better.
    A rose by any other name is still a rose.

    Would be critique if the "rose", exiated.

    Atm there is no current design. So nothing to criticise. Just ideas how the future design can be shaped
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 10
    There is a design. What you mean is that you have not tested the design yet.
  • abc0815abc0815 Member
    Lashing wrote: »
    I am looking at it from the perspective of your own playstyle, not the playstyle of your opponent. You double down on how you want to play, it will not always be optimal against every opponent but that is not the goal. I do not think "I lost because I did not press my equip light armor button before the fight" is a valuable feeling. I think the core stats on the armor should be functional in all scenarios at least slightly. I get that "I want to burst people down so I am building anti-burst armor" sounds a bit odd. I am less hung up on my own hasty design for this and more so on how the current design is kind of all or nothing based on opponent

    You adapted and overcome not double down. If i wanted to play a "pacifist" and then get owned at every step (just an example) that would be a me problem.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Lashing wrote: »
    I think the core stats on gear should enhance the way you want to play, AKA you wear gear that lets you survive burst damage because your goal playstyle is to run in and deal burst damage then get out. Regardless of the damage type of what you are facing your playstyle choice will not change.
    The decisions you need to make to be successful at this should mostly come from your build, not your gear.

    The parts of thus your gear should be chosen to make this happen is in relation to movement speed, avoiding interrupts and cast speed.

    There are many, many ways to customize your character in Ashes - There will be ways to avoid burst damage that comes from hour character build, your gear is not supposed to provide you with that specific option.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Lashing wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »

    every time you replace one effect with another, you can run into the same scenario that you want to try to avoid...you lost because you weren't wearing the correct armor.


    This is not the issue, It is where the player agency is placed. I prefer it to be placed on my own choices, not random encounter chance. The core stat of each armor type is currently based on mitigating specific damage types. I believe that specific damage type mitigation should be based on secondary stats not core stats. Meaning the core stats can now change HOW they mitigate damage instead of only mitigating a ton of one thing and nearly nothing of another. Massive damage swings are very hard to balance.

    you didn't get it. let me use your own example. light armor (I know its just an example, but i disagree with a light armor for dps to get some sort of shield or health, that's more for tanks) anyways, lets say you got your light armor on, then you are going to fight against someone who can dispell a shield, or bypass shields and do damage directly to your health. then you just lost because of the armor type. heavy or medium would have helped you more.

    if you arent fighting vs someone who cant bypass or dispel shields, then light armor would be better than the other 2, for example.

    its still random depending on who you fight. your solution doesn't solve the problem, that's what I'm trying to explain.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    So… why not use a mix of “light”, “medium” and “heavy” armor?
    Then it’s not random.
    And you are still prepped to fight against the Primary Archetype you typically focus on.

    If you’re depending on Magical Shields, most likely you will be wearing some Magical armor that will mitigate Dispels.
    Also, there will be Passive Skills that mitigate Magic attacks like Dispels.
    It’s not all in the gear.
  • LashLash Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 13
    Depraved wrote: »
    Lashing wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »

    every time you replace one effect with another, you can run into the same scenario that you want to try to avoid...you lost because you weren't wearing the correct armor.


    This is not the issue, It is where the player agency is placed. I prefer it to be placed on my own choices, not random encounter chance. The core stat of each armor type is currently based on mitigating specific damage types. I believe that specific damage type mitigation should be based on secondary stats not core stats. Meaning the core stats can now change HOW they mitigate damage instead of only mitigating a ton of one thing and nearly nothing of another. Massive damage swings are very hard to balance.

    you didn't get it. let me use your own example. light armor (I know its just an example, but i disagree with a light armor for dps to get some sort of shield or health, that's more for tanks) anyways, lets say you got your light armor on, then you are going to fight against someone who can dispell a shield, or bypass shields and do damage directly to your health. then you just lost because of the armor type. heavy or medium would have helped you more.

    if you arent fighting vs someone who cant bypass or dispel shields, then light armor would be better than the other 2, for example.

    its still random depending on who you fight. your solution doesn't solve the problem, that's what I'm trying to explain.

    Why are you assuming there is a direct bypass on an energy shield. Light armor in ashes is not "for dps" it is for protection against magic damage. Damage you are dealing has nothing to do with armor type. Also a tank would not value a temporary shield that cannot be healed with a healer. They would want something that mitigates for their normal life pool.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Lashing wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Lashing wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »

    every time you replace one effect with another, you can run into the same scenario that you want to try to avoid...you lost because you weren't wearing the correct armor.


    This is not the issue, It is where the player agency is placed. I prefer it to be placed on my own choices, not random encounter chance. The core stat of each armor type is currently based on mitigating specific damage types. I believe that specific damage type mitigation should be based on secondary stats not core stats. Meaning the core stats can now change HOW they mitigate damage instead of only mitigating a ton of one thing and nearly nothing of another. Massive damage swings are very hard to balance.

    you didn't get it. let me use your own example. light armor (I know its just an example, but i disagree with a light armor for dps to get some sort of shield or health, that's more for tanks) anyways, lets say you got your light armor on, then you are going to fight against someone who can dispell a shield, or bypass shields and do damage directly to your health. then you just lost because of the armor type. heavy or medium would have helped you more.

    if you arent fighting vs someone who cant bypass or dispel shields, then light armor would be better than the other 2, for example.

    its still random depending on who you fight. your solution doesn't solve the problem, that's what I'm trying to explain.

    Why are you assuming there is a direct bypass on an energy shield. Light armor in ashes is not "for dps" it is for protection against magic damage. Damage you are dealing has nothing to do with armor type. Also a tank would not value a temporary shield that cannot be healed with a healer. They would want something that mitigates for their normal life pool.

    my point was that you can still lose based on armor type. some classes might have abilities that directly counter your armor, then you arent really solving the problem you are proposing. you are just changing effect A for effect B.

    if you can assume a shield, I can assume a dispel or a bypass. why cant I? its only fair that I do.
  • LashLash Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »

    my point was that you can still lose based on armor type. some classes might have abilities that directly counter your armor, then you arent really solving the problem you are proposing. you are just changing effect A for effect B.

    if you can assume a shield, I can assume a dispel or a bypass. why cant I? its only fair that I do.

    Yes you might still lose based on what armor you picked. But the choice to use a specific armor was because it complimented your build not because you are simply guessing what damage type a future unknown opponent might use.

    The shield would be the defense (effective life pool) from the armor, you counter it by simply dealing damage by design.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Lashing wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »

    my point was that you can still lose based on armor type. some classes might have abilities that directly counter your armor, then you arent really solving the problem you are proposing. you are just changing effect A for effect B.

    if you can assume a shield, I can assume a dispel or a bypass. why cant I? its only fair that I do.

    Yes you might still lose based on what armor you picked. But the choice to use a specific armor was because it complimented your build not because you are simply guessing what damage type a future unknown opponent might use.

    The shield would be the defense (effective life pool) from the armor, you counter it by simply dealing damage by design.

    but ill still be using an armor that complements my build. i wont be thinking about what damage the opponent uses (most likely unrealistic since you can change damage types, elements, etc).

    heavy armor might still give you magic resistance. it could be that it gives you more mdef than light/robe, but robe has other benefits. we don't know for sure until we play.
  • LashLash Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »

    but ill still be using an armor that complements my build. i wont be thinking about what damage the opponent uses (most likely unrealistic since you can change damage types, elements, etc).

    heavy armor might still give you magic resistance. it could be that it gives you more mdef than light/robe, but robe has other benefits. we don't know for sure until we play.

    Giving specific armor types other benefits is exactly what I am advocating for. I just want those benefits to be defense based considering it is "armor". We know secondary stats will be customized via crafting either way.

  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    i give up
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