Overall Objective:
Gather Demonic Energy Crystals: Each team must collect demonic energy crystals and bring them to their main base. The goal is to accumulate the most energy to survive an impending demonic energy wave threatening to annihilate everything.
Main Objective:
Control the Corrupt Crystal: Located at the center of the map, this crystal spawns powerful demons. Defeating these demons yields the highest amount of crystal energy, which players must transport back to their main base.
Control Objectives (Purple):
Smaller Control Points: Surrounding the main objective are smaller control points, initially guarded by powerful demons. Once defeated, players can claim these points, which then spawn NPCs to aid their team at the main objective. Controlling all points allows for more NPC spawns and fortifies the area, enhancing the team's ability to defend and gather crystals.
Strategic Flow: These control points are crucial for map control, creating a dynamic strategy where teams must balance attacking and defending to gain leverage around the main objective. If one side controls majority it will be very difficulty for players to kill demons, if a team owns 0 purple control it be to the point any size zerg would end up losing (this could also come in the form of debuffs and such not just relying on NPCs and their effects)
Attack Objectives (Purple):
Defend and Attack Points: Each side of the map features two attack points. Holding these points spawns NPCs that attack the opposing team's side base. Protecting your side base is critical to prevent your crystal battery from being destroyed.
Battery Mechanics: The crystal battery, which generates a protective barrier, can only be destroyed by NPCs from the attack points. These NPCs are also required to breach the heavily fortified gates leading to the side base. If the battery is destroyed, the team loses their crystals, and their control points revert to demon control, with these demons gaining a temporary buff. The crystal will restore itself after some time, requiring ongoing defense and strategy.
Breaching the Gate: Players alone cannot breach the side base gates; they must rely on the NPCs spawned from the attack points. Successfully holding both attack objectives for a significant duration allows the NPCs to break through the gates and reach the crystal battery.
General Mob Objectives:
Resource Gathering: Additional mobs spawn around the map, providing resources necessary for sustaining control objectives and spawning NPCs to support the main node. These mobs are essential for maintaining control points and bolstering your team’s strength.
Gameplay Logic
Balanced Dynamics: The game is designed to encourage a balanced approach, where PvE elements support and enhance PvP objectives. Teams must work together to control points, gather resources, and protect their base, creating a multifaceted and strategic gameplay experience.
Player Involvement: By integrating PvE in this way, every element feels purposeful and impactful, ensuring that players are always engaged and contributing to their team's success.
This approach ensures that PvE elements are not just filler but a critical part of the game, enriching the overall PvX experience and making each battle feel meaningful and intense.
@Mag7spy I strongly agree with the ideas behind all of this.
Overall the specifics sound like they are a bit too on the nose about essentially being MOBA gameplay in an MMO.
But that inspired some additional thoughts for me:
First thought was: What if it's something like a troll spawning to prevent passage through a bridge, forcing one team's reinforcements to walk a long path (think several minutes) around to get to the warzone, until that troll is slain.
But the problem is, if it's possible to walk around, no one will kill that troll, because the time lost from the whole army being off the warzone map from contesting real objectives just isn't worth it - especially because the enemy might even mess with them and prevent them from properly killing off the troll anyway.
And you also shouldn't make an PvE encounter like that mandatory, because it would feel like there's no agency; you're just forced to put down everything you were doing and clear the PvE obstacles every time they spawn.
So what if, instead of being an obstacle that evenly spawns across the sides of the battle field, it's a battle balance regulation device that spawns to slow down the side with the numerical/objective-progress advantage? Now everything that was a disadvantage above becomes an advantage. The winning team knows they have the players to spare to deal with the troll *and* continue being present on the map, at least in some capacity, making it less frustrating for them to have to deal with the PvE obstacle.
Thoughts about more organic interactions with obstacles/sub-objectives like that to make the PvE interactions feel less gamified?
No one but yourself can validate you for all the posts you *didn't* write.
What would motivate you to declare a siege or war on others in-game?
Their presence preventing or hindering our town from leveling up!
What systems and features in mass PvP combat do you like and dislike?
I dislike all the decisions and "special" abilities in node-wars being on one character (the mayor atm). I suggest distributing them. For example by appointing generals or smth. like that.
Overall Objective:
Gather Demonic Energy Crystals: Each team must collect demonic energy crystals and bring them to their main base. The goal is to accumulate the most energy to survive an impending demonic energy wave threatening to annihilate everything.
Main Objective:
Control the Corrupt Crystal: Located at the center of the map, this crystal spawns powerful demons. Defeating these demons yields the highest amount of crystal energy, which players must transport back to their main base.
Control Objectives (Purple):
Smaller Control Points: Surrounding the main objective are smaller control points, initially guarded by powerful demons. Once defeated, players can claim these points, which then spawn NPCs to aid their team at the main objective. Controlling all points allows for more NPC spawns and fortifies the area, enhancing the team's ability to defend and gather crystals.
Strategic Flow: These control points are crucial for map control, creating a dynamic strategy where teams must balance attacking and defending to gain leverage around the main objective. If one side controls majority it will be very difficulty for players to kill demons, if a team owns 0 purple control it be to the point any size zerg would end up losing (this could also come in the form of debuffs and such not just relying on NPCs and their effects)
Attack Objectives (Purple):
Defend and Attack Points: Each side of the map features two attack points. Holding these points spawns NPCs that attack the opposing team's side base. Protecting your side base is critical to prevent your crystal battery from being destroyed.
Battery Mechanics: The crystal battery, which generates a protective barrier, can only be destroyed by NPCs from the attack points. These NPCs are also required to breach the heavily fortified gates leading to the side base. If the battery is destroyed, the team loses their crystals, and their control points revert to demon control, with these demons gaining a temporary buff. The crystal will restore itself after some time, requiring ongoing defense and strategy.
Breaching the Gate: Players alone cannot breach the side base gates; they must rely on the NPCs spawned from the attack points. Successfully holding both attack objectives for a significant duration allows the NPCs to break through the gates and reach the crystal battery.
General Mob Objectives:
Resource Gathering: Additional mobs spawn around the map, providing resources necessary for sustaining control objectives and spawning NPCs to support the main node. These mobs are essential for maintaining control points and bolstering your team’s strength.
Gameplay Logic
Balanced Dynamics: The game is designed to encourage a balanced approach, where PvE elements support and enhance PvP objectives. Teams must work together to control points, gather resources, and protect their base, creating a multifaceted and strategic gameplay experience.
Player Involvement: By integrating PvE in this way, every element feels purposeful and impactful, ensuring that players are always engaged and contributing to their team's success.
This approach ensures that PvE elements are not just filler but a critical part of the game, enriching the overall PvX experience and making each battle feel meaningful and intense.
@Mag7spy I strongly agree with the ideas behind all of this.
Overall the specifics sound like they are a bit too on the nose about essentially being MOBA gameplay in an MMO.
But that inspired some additional thoughts for me:
First thought was: What if it's something like a troll spawning to prevent passage through a bridge, forcing one team's reinforcements to walk a long path (think several minutes) around to get to the warzone, until that troll is slain.
But the problem is, if it's possible to walk around, no one will kill that troll, because the time lost from the whole army being off the warzone map from contesting real objectives just isn't worth it - especially because the enemy might even mess with them and prevent them from properly killing off the troll anyway.
And you also shouldn't make an PvE encounter like that mandatory, because it would feel like there's no agency; you're just forced to put down everything you were doing and clear the PvE obstacles every time they spawn.
So what if, instead of being an obstacle that evenly spawns across the sides of the battle field, it's a battle balance regulation device that spawns to slow down the side with the numerical/objective-progress advantage? Now everything that was a disadvantage above becomes an advantage. The winning team knows they have the players to spare to deal with the troll *and* continue being present on the map, at least in some capacity, making it less frustrating for them to have to deal with the PvE obstacle.
Thoughts about more organic interactions with obstacles/sub-objectives like that to make the PvE interactions feel less gamified?
Could be anything, i wouldn't view moba design as bad though as there are a lot of mobas out there, their mechanics are pretty simple as well. So I wa trying to think of a bit more advanced idea that made since in a mmorpg and on paper atleast creating a flow around the map. Which reduces big balling being the main effective means of winning between 2 types of mandatory objectives.
Which allows also more room for flex squads or smaller guilds that enjoy pvp and being able to flex around and fight people (ie roam between major points and engage in smaller fights). On top of people that aren't as effective or into pvp as much to have some smaller more pve objectives that can help out while avoiding the major battles (which can overwhelm people not as effective or coordinated in it) Which will help ease them into pvp a bit more and slow build up confidence.
But ya anything is possible with different types of wars with different rule sets involving anything people can think of your idea as well. It just be better imo to move away from PvE just being farming mobs as the main objective. And create more of these fun mini pvp battlefields for people to enjoy. Else you are kind of suffering from issues int he past between games where its just pvp or pve injected it. Imo it needs to be all better mixed together feeling like more of a mode than just simply skilling some bad pve monsters that aren't really a threat (if the pve monsters where elites and do tons of dmg and were hp sponges to me that isn't' really a threat either). When pve can effect the landscape on either side or be manipulated by players and overpowering or zerging can't simply stop it. That is when you create a experience that is better imo. And players will need to rely on things other then gear score / numbers to win all encounters and start actually thinking about strategy and how to win besides doing things in the most simply way.
I had other idea as well but its already enough effort to do one and i have other things going on i need to be focusing on, and trying to enjoy elden ring as well. But i figured one idea enough was good enough of a frame work to spark some ideas. I'm glad you are offering some yourself as well ^_^ as I feel this is more productive.
We asked our community this question and we received some of the following feedback:
- They would love to be able to communicate drawings/pins on the map to the raid/party.
- They loved that there were PvE options to contribute to the node siege.
- People did not like the obscured health through health sections. They either want to have it removed or have 8-10 segments instead.
- Some people suggested that the "difficulty" of the objectives change based on the level of node you're sieging
- They also found the channeling of the spike to capture it be too dull and static. Perhaps something more strategic/active.
- They'd also love to have a detailed stat page during or after the siege to see what happened.
- They felt it would be useful to be able to add symbols to significant raid members e.g. stars, numbers etc
1. Has to have good reasons/rewards to want to expand your territory and grow your city into a metropolis. Even taking another vassal node needs to be worth it.
2. Have to make the decision on cap of city population size and if you want to make it say 50v50 instance style or more of a game of politics of who can get the most people to show up which can lead to some interesting situations but usually to many people in one area and lots of lag.
3. Siege time is super important nobody likes having to be on at 3am in the morning for a siege.
4. Kinda an odd one but has to be said and should have been number one DO NOT LET CHINA ON THE SERVERS or they will ruin not only sieging but the rest of the game for everybody. They have ruined so many games. If you must let them play they HAVE TO PLAY ON THERE OWN SERVERS PERIOD.
5. Some kind of points system for kills vs deaths in sieges and titles special mounts etc for known strong pvpers in the city/alliance to flex
6. Not to sure how the map setup is finalized yet but in darkfall you wanted to siege places because they were cool or had good mob spawns/resources near or were super defensible. Some places were on the water and you brought ships to siege they had shipyards you wanted to build ships. Some in an underground super tight tunnel that had a rare ore mine. Some you had to work your way up platforms/elevators to the top which was near impenetrable. If node/cities in this game were very very different and that effected the sieging that would be awasome.
Broadcasting for targets: fundamental, when the groupd has no clue who they should shoot then the fights become extremely long
Mobility: blinks, climbing, jumping, dashes, swap-place spells, jumping off cliffs, catapulting people, group blink (friends and foes altogether)
Tackle: pulls, pushes, knockdowns, snares, slow, paralysis: Crucial for dismantling the enemy group methodically
Landmarks : Ample space for fights, ideally at chokepoints or points of interest
Enviromental danger and Mayor Skills: such as lava, landslides, flaming rolling logs/boulders, wind gusts, pit traps, chasms, bridges, etc. These disrupt enemy formations or force them to consolidate efforts
Unleashing NPC Beasts and Mayor Skills: These attack targets randomly, disrupting formations and pressuring healers. Various types like soldiers, arrow volleys, and catapult shots (aim and deploy within 3 seconds)
If the event is oversubscribed, a spectator queue should be implemented. Spectators would then replace those who have died, then the dead become the new spectators and will wait until other people die.
Mayor Skills should exist in sieges, mayors should decide what they will bring. The team with fewer members should have their group consumables cooldowns reduced. The team with less people should have the cooldows reduced and with this they will have better odds against a zerg.
In a 500 x 100 fight, the 100 group would have 5x faster cooldowns and shower catapults, arrow volleys, beasts unleashed and everything else.... it won't fully fix the problem of having much less people, but people will have a ton of fun at least.
I known I am genious, thanks.
Dislike:
not knowing who to shoot at
too many health bars hovering everywhere
big nameplates
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Comments
Overall the specifics sound like they are a bit too on the nose about essentially being MOBA gameplay in an MMO.
But that inspired some additional thoughts for me:
First thought was: What if it's something like a troll spawning to prevent passage through a bridge, forcing one team's reinforcements to walk a long path (think several minutes) around to get to the warzone, until that troll is slain.
But the problem is, if it's possible to walk around, no one will kill that troll, because the time lost from the whole army being off the warzone map from contesting real objectives just isn't worth it - especially because the enemy might even mess with them and prevent them from properly killing off the troll anyway.
And you also shouldn't make an PvE encounter like that mandatory, because it would feel like there's no agency; you're just forced to put down everything you were doing and clear the PvE obstacles every time they spawn.
So what if, instead of being an obstacle that evenly spawns across the sides of the battle field, it's a battle balance regulation device that spawns to slow down the side with the numerical/objective-progress advantage? Now everything that was a disadvantage above becomes an advantage. The winning team knows they have the players to spare to deal with the troll *and* continue being present on the map, at least in some capacity, making it less frustrating for them to have to deal with the PvE obstacle.
Thoughts about more organic interactions with obstacles/sub-objectives like that to make the PvE interactions feel less gamified?
I dislike all the decisions and "special" abilities in node-wars being on one character (the mayor atm). I suggest distributing them. For example by appointing generals or smth. like that.
Could be anything, i wouldn't view moba design as bad though as there are a lot of mobas out there, their mechanics are pretty simple as well. So I wa trying to think of a bit more advanced idea that made since in a mmorpg and on paper atleast creating a flow around the map. Which reduces big balling being the main effective means of winning between 2 types of mandatory objectives.
Which allows also more room for flex squads or smaller guilds that enjoy pvp and being able to flex around and fight people (ie roam between major points and engage in smaller fights). On top of people that aren't as effective or into pvp as much to have some smaller more pve objectives that can help out while avoiding the major battles (which can overwhelm people not as effective or coordinated in it) Which will help ease them into pvp a bit more and slow build up confidence.
But ya anything is possible with different types of wars with different rule sets involving anything people can think of your idea as well. It just be better imo to move away from PvE just being farming mobs as the main objective. And create more of these fun mini pvp battlefields for people to enjoy. Else you are kind of suffering from issues int he past between games where its just pvp or pve injected it. Imo it needs to be all better mixed together feeling like more of a mode than just simply skilling some bad pve monsters that aren't really a threat (if the pve monsters where elites and do tons of dmg and were hp sponges to me that isn't' really a threat either). When pve can effect the landscape on either side or be manipulated by players and overpowering or zerging can't simply stop it. That is when you create a experience that is better imo. And players will need to rely on things other then gear score / numbers to win all encounters and start actually thinking about strategy and how to win besides doing things in the most simply way.
I had other idea as well but its already enough effort to do one and i have other things going on i need to be focusing on, and trying to enjoy elden ring as well. But i figured one idea enough was good enough of a frame work to spark some ideas. I'm glad you are offering some yourself as well ^_^ as I feel this is more productive.
- They would love to be able to communicate drawings/pins on the map to the raid/party.
- They loved that there were PvE options to contribute to the node siege.
- People did not like the obscured health through health sections. They either want to have it removed or have 8-10 segments instead.
- Some people suggested that the "difficulty" of the objectives change based on the level of node you're sieging
- They also found the channeling of the spike to capture it be too dull and static. Perhaps something more strategic/active.
- They'd also love to have a detailed stat page during or after the siege to see what happened.
- They felt it would be useful to be able to add symbols to significant raid members e.g. stars, numbers etc
2. Have to make the decision on cap of city population size and if you want to make it say 50v50 instance style or more of a game of politics of who can get the most people to show up which can lead to some interesting situations but usually to many people in one area and lots of lag.
3. Siege time is super important nobody likes having to be on at 3am in the morning for a siege.
4. Kinda an odd one but has to be said and should have been number one DO NOT LET CHINA ON THE SERVERS or they will ruin not only sieging but the rest of the game for everybody. They have ruined so many games. If you must let them play they HAVE TO PLAY ON THERE OWN SERVERS PERIOD.
5. Some kind of points system for kills vs deaths in sieges and titles special mounts etc for known strong pvpers in the city/alliance to flex
6. Not to sure how the map setup is finalized yet but in darkfall you wanted to siege places because they were cool or had good mob spawns/resources near or were super defensible. Some places were on the water and you brought ships to siege they had shipyards you wanted to build ships. Some in an underground super tight tunnel that had a rare ore mine. Some you had to work your way up platforms/elevators to the top which was near impenetrable. If node/cities in this game were very very different and that effected the sieging that would be awasome.
Mayor Skills should exist in sieges, mayors should decide what they will bring. The team with fewer members should have their group consumables cooldowns reduced. The team with less people should have the cooldows reduced and with this they will have better odds against a zerg.
In a 500 x 100 fight, the 100 group would have 5x faster cooldowns and shower catapults, arrow volleys, beasts unleashed and everything else.... it won't fully fix the problem of having much less people, but people will have a ton of fun at least.
I known I am genious, thanks.
Dislike: