I've been playing MMORPG's for 20 or so years, and I can't think of a single situation where this is information that would alter my decision making.
It's all dems solo mmoers. They think that only THEY matter in a fight. In my 12 years of playing "who killed the target" never mattered, as long as the target was dead. And it didn't matter because not only was I in a party that was killing said target, but I was also usually in a whole guild that was killing enemy targets (mine included).
Solo mmos have brainrotted people to think they're the center of the earth and that the entire design should always care about them and revolve around them.
It’s interesting, as these conversations about Node Wars continue the features / experiences I’m seeing as most relevant come from multiplayer FPS games instead of MMOs.
I've been playing MMORPG's for 20 or so years, and I can't think of a single situation where this is information that would alter my decision making.
It's all dems solo mmoers. They think that only THEY matter in a fight. In my 12 years of playing "who killed the target" never mattered, as long as the target was dead. And it didn't matter because not only was I in a party that was killing said target, but I was also usually in a whole guild that was killing enemy targets (mine included).
Solo mmos have brainrotted people to think they're the center of the earth and that the entire design should always care about them and revolve around them.
This is so far from the truth and sounds like the preceptive of someone that has not played many modern mmorpgs. Gameplay from 20 years ago is different from current gameplay as well as players more skilled / competitive.
I'm going to emphasis again you thinking this is coming from "solo" mmorpgs which only one exist you can make aa argument for BDO. Makes 0 sense in this context, even more so since this context only matters mostly in group pvp (so you are just randomly talking crap). You've already made the point you want it as unfriendly as possible. Meaning you want there to be a chance its difficult to know you even kill someone in any kind of setting.
Rather than talking about brainrot i recommend playing some modern mmorpgs time to time and getting to a decent point in them. Get into more of the competitive scene as well so you have a better idea how pvp is now a days and such.
It’s interesting, as these conversations about Node Wars continue the features / experiences I’m seeing as most relevant come from multiplayer FPS games instead of MMOs.
I don't believe making a kill more UI user friendly is really a FPS / Moba thing. That is just a good quality of life though it is clearly a PvP thing. This is where the connection is being muddied saying its a FPS or Moba thing, AoC is going to have a lot of PvP and feedback is important.
Even if we go look back to the oldest mmorpg you have direct feedback when you kill someone its just not user friendly.
Wanting information o be better with more going on in games now 20 years later is not a bad thing. For people that don't care they can turn that part of the UI off. Though i have feeling most will have it on that plan to PvP.
In Lineage II open world pvp there were pvp kill notifications (if pvp's members are part of the clan and pvp is against another clan's members that they have a war with) + it was shown for all the participants in sieges. I loved it. It gave a lot of information for the whole clan/alliance as everyone basically knew your opponents clan leader's, main healer/'s, best geared dps'ers names. Yes, it's about who did the final blow, but still it gave a good amount of strategic information, sense of how the operation was being handles, whether we could change some strategy or a pure sense of achievement / self achievement in front of the others.
In Lineage II open world pvp there were pvp kill notifications (if pvp's members are part of the clan and pvp is against another clan's members that they have a war with) + it was shown for all the participants in sieges. I loved it. It gave a lot of information for the whole clan/alliance as everyone basically knew your opponents clan leader's, main healer/'s, best geared dps'ers names. Yes, it's about who did the final blow, but still it gave a good amount of strategic information, sense of how the operation was being handles, whether we could change some strategy or a pure sense of achievement / self achievement in front of the others.
Wait than why are people acting surprised now about notifications....This is even more confusing with these takes.
If you read my first comment in this thread, it references those videos perfectly. The kill's notification is near-permanent. I dislike that, which is why I said I'd be fine if this was simply in the combat log.
Your confusion comes from the assumption that everyone who played the same games will have the same opinions on matters of design.
Wait than why are people acting surprised now about notifications....This is even more confusing with these takes.
If you read my first comment in this thread, it references those videos perfectly. The kill's notification is near-permanent. I dislike that, which is why I said I'd be fine if this was simply in the combat log.
Your confusion comes from the assumption that everyone who played the same games will have the same opinions on matters of design.
My point is you saying solo mmorpgs makes 0 sense even more so. Not a matter of what you like or if you want things to be worse.
Id agree it be annoying and it wasn't well thought out, having personal kill (only) notifications on the side of your screen (usually the bottom left) is an asset.
My other question is why are you trying to reduce the UI for players over something you don't like, that you could turn off? The whole point of no addons and such is so people can customize their ui and experience to how they want. That has pretty much 0 effect on you to let people have what they want.
My other question is why are you trying to reduce the UI for players over something you don't like, that you could turn off? The whole point of no addons and such is so people can customize their ui and experience to how they want. That has pretty much 0 effect on you to let people have what they want.
Because I want this to be a part of a very well-designed combat log, and people can then just customize that in a variety of ways, which is also smth I already said
My other question is why are you trying to reduce the UI for players over something you don't like, that you could turn off? The whole point of no addons and such is so people can customize their ui and experience to how they want. That has pretty much 0 effect on you to let people have what they want.
Because I want this to be a part of a very well-designed combat log, and people can then just customize that in a variety of ways, which is also smth I already said
That is all good and fine and im sure you will have plenty of information in the combat log. doesn't answer my question though why you are trying to police peoples UI? Why can you not just turn off the notification yourself and be fine with what people want?
why you are trying to police peoples UI? Why can you not just turn off the notification yourself and be fine with what people want?
I'm not policing anything. They proposed something they want and I provided a point against it (though more of a redirection of that proposition). I've proposed things before as well and people gave their counterpoints to those suggestions.
why you are trying to police peoples UI? Why can you not just turn off the notification yourself and be fine with what people want?
I'm not policing anything. They proposed something they want and I provided a point against it (though more of a redirection of that proposition). I've proposed things before as well and people gave their counterpoints to those suggestions.
What is exactly your point against players having a message indicating they personally killed a player (like many other mmorpgs) and ability for players to move or turn it off the UI?
I see what you like (which means you could turn it off) or you saying you want it to be user unfriendly (which isn't a point against it). IE if this is based on your preference its not really a point against what another wants as their own preference. Even more so if its not infringing on your own gameplay.
What is exactly your point against players having a message indicating they personally killed a player (like many other mmorpgs) and ability for players to move or turn it off the UI?
I'd prefer if devs spent their time making a better combat log with a ton of customization, rather than spending time on little UI elements that only some people will like, all the while that exact feature could just be a part of the combat log functionality.
And that's how this impacts me personally. The devtime spent on something specific, which removes devtime from making something more generalized that already encompasses that specific function.
What is exactly your point against players having a message indicating they personally killed a player (like many other mmorpgs) and ability for players to move or turn it off the UI?
I'd prefer if devs spent their time making a better combat log with a ton of customization, rather than spending time on little UI elements that only some people will like, all the while that exact feature could just be a part of the combat log functionality.
And that's how this impacts me personally. The devtime spent on something specific, which removes devtime from making something more generalized that already encompasses that specific function.
That isn't really going to increase dev time in anyway that will impact game, even more so since it will exist in the combat log already they aren't doing every element from scratch. Also i think its a reach for you to say only "some" people. A lot of people will appreciate knowing they are being impactful and knowing their target was killed quite clearly. A casuals not going to go digging though logs for those types of players as well.
That isn't really going to increase dev time in anyway that will impact game, even more so since it will exist in the combat log already they aren't doing every element from scratch.
We've had several passes on random UI elements already. And people still keep saying "UI looks basic" or "this UI could definitely look better", etc.
A pop-up UI element on kills would need to look cool and nice, for the exact purpose you said - positive reinforcement. And the people who care about this will definitely pay attention to it and will keep asking Intrepid to make it look as cool as possible. And all of that is devtime, dev discussion time, Steven's decision time, etc etc etc.
Making a "you can create a new chat window, customize its look, move it anywhere on the screen, filter it to a point of only one phrase appearing (i.e. exclude any other logging), make that phrase show up in any color/shape/form you want" would be a much better-spent devtime. Mainly because this kind of functionality would go far far far beyond just "oh boy, I killed a dude I just saw die".
And this would also have more customization than your desired UI element. And if you'd want the same customization for the OP's suggestion - we come back to my point of "I'd prefer if devs spent time on other things".
That isn't really going to increase dev time in anyway that will impact game, even more so since it will exist in the combat log already they aren't doing every element from scratch.
We've had several passes on random UI elements already. And people still keep saying "UI looks basic" or "this UI could definitely look better", etc.
A pop-up UI element on kills would need to look cool and nice, for the exact purpose you said - positive reinforcement. And the people who care about this will definitely pay attention to it and will keep asking Intrepid to make it look as cool as possible. And all of that is devtime, dev discussion time, Steven's decision time, etc etc etc.
Making a "you can create a new chat window, customize its look, move it anywhere on the screen, filter it to a point of only one phrase appearing (i.e. exclude any other logging), make that phrase show up in any color/shape/form you want" would be a much better-spent devtime. Mainly because this kind of functionality would go far far far beyond just "oh boy, I killed a dude I just saw die".
And this would also have more customization than your desired UI element. And if you'd want the same customization for the OP's suggestion - we come back to my point of "I'd prefer if devs spent time on other things".
You are getting stuck on making a argument that people want things to be better as a reason it takes up dev time for them to not do more ui elements, which doesn't make a lot of sense. You are overexaggerating elements as a reason to say they have to much to do so they don't have dev time. Its a pretty weak argument that lacks an actual point. You can use this argument for any part of the game and say they shouldnt do it because they suddenly don't have dev time.
So this comes to your own preference you don't care about it do you won't want devs to work on it. So for all the people that do care about it they should 100% do it because it doesn't require any more work than they are already doing. Once you have a good UI in place you take bits and parts out of it since they already look good, you aren't matching everything from scratch. Making this part of the ui is so minimal on the art side, effectively what you are saying to compare is the devs shouldn't make a second rock for their environment to not waste dev time.
You can use this argument for any part of the game and say they shouldnt do it because they suddenly don't have dev time.
And I'm fairly sure I've given this feedback for quite a few other suggestions in the past. "Move this to post-release updates, cause devs got better stuff to do now". The reply is slightly different in the current context, because I simply want this devtime moved from a random UI element into the chat UI element, because that way this functionality would serve way more people than just those who jerk off to their killcounts
If you needed a knife, a corkscrew, a bottle opener and a pair of scissors - all in a compact package. Would you buy this
Or would you buy all of them separately, which inevitably takes up more space?
Because right now you want to have them all separately, while I'm suggesting a swiss knife solution.
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chibibreeMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I'm not sure if anyone else said this but from what I recall, in the chat, we could see who killed who during the node wars tests.
Comments
Solo mmos have brainrotted people to think they're the center of the earth and that the entire design should always care about them and revolve around them.
you have no idea how close you are to the truth XD
This is so far from the truth and sounds like the preceptive of someone that has not played many modern mmorpgs. Gameplay from 20 years ago is different from current gameplay as well as players more skilled / competitive.
I'm going to emphasis again you thinking this is coming from "solo" mmorpgs which only one exist you can make aa argument for BDO. Makes 0 sense in this context, even more so since this context only matters mostly in group pvp (so you are just randomly talking crap). You've already made the point you want it as unfriendly as possible. Meaning you want there to be a chance its difficult to know you even kill someone in any kind of setting.
Rather than talking about brainrot i recommend playing some modern mmorpgs time to time and getting to a decent point in them. Get into more of the competitive scene as well so you have a better idea how pvp is now a days and such.
I don't believe making a kill more UI user friendly is really a FPS / Moba thing. That is just a good quality of life though it is clearly a PvP thing. This is where the connection is being muddied saying its a FPS or Moba thing, AoC is going to have a lot of PvP and feedback is important.
Even if we go look back to the oldest mmorpg you have direct feedback when you kill someone its just not user friendly.
Wanting information o be better with more going on in games now 20 years later is not a bad thing. For people that don't care they can turn that part of the UI off. Though i have feeling most will have it on that plan to PvP.
Example for Open World PvP at 0:28
Example for Castle Siege at 0:28
Wait than why are people acting surprised now about notifications....This is even more confusing with these takes.
Your confusion comes from the assumption that everyone who played the same games will have the same opinions on matters of design.
My point is you saying solo mmorpgs makes 0 sense even more so. Not a matter of what you like or if you want things to be worse.
Id agree it be annoying and it wasn't well thought out, having personal kill (only) notifications on the side of your screen (usually the bottom left) is an asset.
My other question is why are you trying to reduce the UI for players over something you don't like, that you could turn off? The whole point of no addons and such is so people can customize their ui and experience to how they want. That has pretty much 0 effect on you to let people have what they want.
That is all good and fine and im sure you will have plenty of information in the combat log. doesn't answer my question though why you are trying to police peoples UI? Why can you not just turn off the notification yourself and be fine with what people want?
What is exactly your point against players having a message indicating they personally killed a player (like many other mmorpgs) and ability for players to move or turn it off the UI?
I see what you like (which means you could turn it off) or you saying you want it to be user unfriendly (which isn't a point against it). IE if this is based on your preference its not really a point against what another wants as their own preference. Even more so if its not infringing on your own gameplay.
And that's how this impacts me personally. The devtime spent on something specific, which removes devtime from making something more generalized that already encompasses that specific function.
That isn't really going to increase dev time in anyway that will impact game, even more so since it will exist in the combat log already they aren't doing every element from scratch. Also i think its a reach for you to say only "some" people. A lot of people will appreciate knowing they are being impactful and knowing their target was killed quite clearly. A casuals not going to go digging though logs for those types of players as well.
A pop-up UI element on kills would need to look cool and nice, for the exact purpose you said - positive reinforcement. And the people who care about this will definitely pay attention to it and will keep asking Intrepid to make it look as cool as possible. And all of that is devtime, dev discussion time, Steven's decision time, etc etc etc.
Making a "you can create a new chat window, customize its look, move it anywhere on the screen, filter it to a point of only one phrase appearing (i.e. exclude any other logging), make that phrase show up in any color/shape/form you want" would be a much better-spent devtime. Mainly because this kind of functionality would go far far far beyond just "oh boy, I killed a dude I just saw die".
And this would also have more customization than your desired UI element. And if you'd want the same customization for the OP's suggestion - we come back to my point of "I'd prefer if devs spent time on other things".
You are getting stuck on making a argument that people want things to be better as a reason it takes up dev time for them to not do more ui elements, which doesn't make a lot of sense. You are overexaggerating elements as a reason to say they have to much to do so they don't have dev time. Its a pretty weak argument that lacks an actual point. You can use this argument for any part of the game and say they shouldnt do it because they suddenly don't have dev time.
So this comes to your own preference you don't care about it do you won't want devs to work on it. So for all the people that do care about it they should 100% do it because it doesn't require any more work than they are already doing. Once you have a good UI in place you take bits and parts out of it since they already look good, you aren't matching everything from scratch. Making this part of the ui is so minimal on the art side, effectively what you are saying to compare is the devs shouldn't make a second rock for their environment to not waste dev time.
If you needed a knife, a corkscrew, a bottle opener and a pair of scissors - all in a compact package. Would you buy this
Or would you buy all of them separately, which inevitably takes up more space?
Because right now you want to have them all separately, while I'm suggesting a swiss knife solution.
Yeah, it has been mentioned.
IMO this is enough.