Bard Instrumentality via Weapon Transmoging

Several respondents to the Bard preview noted how the Bard dose not equip an instrument item and instead makes use of a instrument selection within their skill tree. This selection looks to currently be cosmetic and just determines the animations which acompany the Bards skills. While the logic of this design choice is obvious (not needing to create and support the crafting of items usable by only one class which would present a balance issue) it has the downsize of leaving the Bard to be VERY infrequently touch their instruments.

At the least the Bard should play their instrument durring the full duration of any skill activation and channeling time. I think it would also be wise to have a Bard visually hold their instrument as the default idle state, either in addition or in place of their weapon even if the weapon has to be swapped to when a normal weapon attack is made. But this would present issues of swap animation delays. So an even better solution is to simply weild their instrument in melee and ranged combat, swapping is entirely eliminated and the Bard simply has an instrument at all times, either being activly played, behing held in an idle state, or being weilded as a weapon. Yes it will look a little goofy but it dosn't get any more thematic then a Bard hitting someone with their Lute and we should lean in on it.

The means to do this is actually rather simple. Their will infact be no Instrument items at all nor a choice of weapon in the Skill tree. When a Bard equips any normal weapon it is VISUALLY Transmoged INTO an Instrument. The Bard then uses all the normal weapon skills that any class would have access too with all the weapons normal stats, weapons speed and damage applying.

To preverse a fair level of threat identification for other players every weapon type is Transmoged into a specific instrument type which is physically plausible for the weapon reach/size and swing types to make it easy for others to memorize the pairing and for the animations to be kineticly and spacially appropriate with hitboxes. For example Bows becomes Harps which the Bard shoots normal arrows from, a Dagger becomes a Flute (or pair of flutes which was actually a common thing in antiquity) that the Bard can stab with. A long 2handed weapon like a Lance or Halbert would become a long Trumpet, etc etc. Having a shield equipped with a 1 handed weapon should look different from the 1 hander alone, either adding a second element or using a composite instrument specific to that weapon/shield combo, such a Fiddle and it's bow for sword and shield where the bow is swung as the Sword and the Fiddle is used to make block animations.

The ranged magic weapons like the Book, and Orb likely become more stationary instruments like Drums or BagPipes (btw BagPipes must be in the game for my Dunir Bard to play) and projectiles remain magical bolts. The intent is that anyone seeing the Bard gains as close to the SAME level of information about what they are weilding as one would about any other class. It also lets others identify when spell channeling is occouring as the instrument goes from held at the ready to an active playing animation which will usually be different from any weapon swing windup animation.

The Transmoged instrument could alsos be modified by race, Say Race X uses Banjo's in place of Lutes as the representation of 2 handed Axes. Or an Okarina in place of a Flute or even a change as subtle as an instruments wood just being a different color. This would be an option mainly for the Devs to show off cultural differences between races if a single universal instrument substituting for 1 Handed Sword is not felt to be adaquate. So long as the instrument still follows the general size/shape needs so that it can be put into an appropriate animation. Lastly some player level cosmetic customization of the Transmog might also be allowed so long as it remains within the proscribed limits of the weapon-instrument type pairing.

This Transmoging method is in my opinion superior to other proposals up on the forums at this time which try to alter gameplay to make instruments apear more often, because it

1) achives both the highest proportion of 'up time' for instrument-in-hand or the Bard (100%)
2) allows gameplay to evolve completly agnosticly without bending artificially to meet astetic desires
3) allows the player full access to normal weapons without sacrificing their Bardic appearance
4) will look totally metal in game

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Comments

Neox365

Totally on board with this idea! Transmogging the Bard's weapons into instruments is genius

Endowed

Perhaps the Bard should have his instrument predominantly as the default visual. Especially OOC. Id rather not transmog away the actual weapon graphic -- that hurts pvp recognition.

Lodrig

Endowed wrote: »

Perhaps the Bard should have his instrument predominantly as the default visual. Especially OOC. Id rather not transmog away the actual weapon graphic -- that hurts pvp recognition.

I spent about half the post detailing how this is done in a way to maximize pvp recogninition such that Bards transmoged instrument conveys nearly equivilent information to the weapon graphics of any other class. It sounds like you did not read the full post and assumed unrestricted transmoging.

Do you think the weapon/instrument type matching system I proposed is an inadaquate amount of information for PvP purposes? I will admit it is not 100% the information level of the original weapon graphic, but I think the difference is small enough that any advantage gained by the Bard is insignificant, particularly when weapon attacks are a secondary threat from their class as presented (though I personaly favor the Bard having more melee skills and 'in your face' abilities rather then being so range combat based).

Lastly a little bit of 'mystery' about a Bard is thematicly appropriate in my opinion, after all illusion magic has traditionaly been the bread-and-butter of Bardic magic in D&D.

ItsNoGood

I like bards having a normal weapon like in Dark and Darker, but I do think that they should be less reliant on weapon attacks. Also having more spells that feature instruments would be nice.

nanfoodle

No ty. Bards also use every weapon in the gane like all classes. Last thing I want to see it's a Bard do a heavy 2H cleave with a lute. Now that would look dumb.

arkileo

I don't think it's a bad idea, but it would be a lot of work for the animation team. Every instrument would need a whole new animation set separate from the weapon they're replacing, otherwise I think it would look incredibly janky.

Endowed

Lodrig wrote: »

Endowed wrote: »

Perhaps the Bard should have his instrument predominantly as the default visual. Especially OOC. Id rather not transmog away the actual weapon graphic -- that hurts pvp recognition.

I spent about half the post detailing how this is done in a way to maximize pvp recogninition such that Bards transmoged instrument conveys nearly equivilent information to the weapon graphics of any other class. It sounds like you did not read the full post and assumed unrestricted transmoging.

Do you think the weapon/instrument type matching system I proposed is an inadaquate amount of information for PvP purposes? I will admit it is not 100% the information level of the original weapon graphic, but I think the difference is small enough that any advantage gained by the Bard is insignificant, particularly when weapon attacks are a secondary threat from their class as presented (though I personaly favor the Bard having more melee skills and 'in your face' abilities rather then being so range combat based).

Lastly a little bit of 'mystery' about a Bard is thematicly appropriate in my opinion, after all illusion magic has traditionaly been the bread-and-butter of Bardic magic in D&D.

Apologies if the emphasis of my statement doesnt read as it should.
I was agreeing and just layering my quick add on top of yours.

"perhaps the bard SHOULD have his instrument predominantly as the default visual."

But if a weapon is being used in a fight, Id much prefer to see it and not a transmog.

Lodrig

Fair assesment. If they can't/won't do the Transmoging I could live with atleast showing that instument as a default 'idle' state for the Bard. That would after all be what you look at most often, theirs no need to animate swings of any kind and the player can just select it with no issue.

The switch to the true weapon graphic can then happen upon being flagged as a combatant, then the instument is going to be seen when your activly casting and the rest of the time your holding that weapon which you might swing at any time.

Oliv

I completely agree with the initial post. Hoping that IS takes these ideas into consideration.

Dygz

Pretty sure Steven said during the Livestream that Bard Instrument/Weapons have not been implemented into the game yet.
It's an Alpha.
Which is why the Bard in the Showcase was wielding a Tome instead of Lute or Drum.
The Showcase was to demo the Active Skills; not Weapons designed primarily for Bards.

nanfoodle

I have to admit i would not be upset either way. As long as my Bard seems to be playing an instrument at times. And I get to play a Bard I like the play style. I'm just gonna be freaking happy. A2 pls.

Voeltz

I was expecting instruments to work this way. Hopefully what they have now is just placeholder and they will be equipped/crafted weapons.

Caeryl

As long as the Bard’s skills use instruments in the animations, I’m fine if it doesn’t literally reskin the equipped weapon. That can just stay visibly sheathed until the bard uses a weapon abilities

nanfoodle

Caeryl wrote: »

As long as the Bard’s skills use instruments in the animations, I’m fine if it doesn’t literally reskin the equipped weapon. That can just stay visibly sheathed until the bard uses a weapon abilities

Ya I do like I can pick what instrument I'm playing. I'm a drummer in RL. So you know what I'm gonna pick mostly.

Lodrig

Thx for the feedback, looks at about 50/50 support for the concept.

If we get actual crafted item instruments I would be rather surprized, because if they intended that then why put in an instrument selection under skills? But I would be ok with that if they did it. What would the instrument item actually DO though? Would it be a weapon with it's own skill tree the way sword, axe, dagger gets? Or would it just be a stat-stick which can carry stats that only a Bard would use (like specifically modifiers to melody stacks, music range etc) or would it be a pure cosmetic, I can't see pure cosmetic items being a thing.

Dygz

Steven says there will be Instruments with Skill Trees that can be Crafted - they just aren't ready for A2 yet.

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