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Recent Bard Showcase has left me concerned for the build and makeup of the Dunir Dwarves.

TharmekhulTharmekhul Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
I'd like to start by stating that the recent bard showcase was nothing short of amazing and i can't wait to play this in Alpha2! the devs are doing such an amazing job with this game and the updates they are providing to the community.
However, I do have to say that when I saw the floating shield hiding what was apparently the Dunir tank of the party in the beginning of the bard archetype video, as a dwarf main player, I was very much let down. Ashes of Creation goes on to tell us about their Dunir dwarves by stating in their description "Do not be fooled by their stout nature, they are pound for pound the strongest warriors the world has ever known." however we just didnt see that in the video. I would like to see the devs put a bit more work into making the Dunir stockier, wider, and stronger if we are to believe that this race can inspire anything other then comedic relief and laughter when we see them raise their shield and their entire being disappears behind it. If we are to be able to perceive them as strong and capable warriors, their frame and stature needs some work in my opinion because they currently have what I believe to be more of a gnomish frame rather than that of a true Dwarf.

Comments

  • BarabBarab Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The original OG Dwarf flip.

    https://youtu.be/xFXUYl2ljqI?si=IUflLeZMz47BUP38


    I will assume the Dunir model is still under construction and look forward to giving proper feedback once we are in testing. We look forward to avenging Dunir tank BrianF's face shaving as we suspect Empyrean and Py'Rai Elven hands at work there.


    The Dünir Hold Mithril Warhammers,Thanes of the Keelhaul, Dünir scourge of the oceans, Warhammer First Fleet Command of The Dünzenkell Nation, friends to the Dünir Dwarves of the Dünhold. Hammers High!
    y139ot6w1eku.png
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Doesn't make any sense at all with the exception of skill shots. If the dwarf hidden behind a shield is less accurate i would call a triumph. The fantasy of a stocky dwarf warrior is a staple much akin to a Dwarf Cleric. Do I want a stocky warrior appearance for a Cleric? Not per say. Do I want a Dwarf Warrior to be as skinny as a high elf? Not per say. Do I want options on all races for stocky, short, tall or tough for all races due to my rp pvp experience? Yes.
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  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    People talk about wanting heavy weapons to have impact. I think they need to ensure that the orcs and dwarves have the physical presence of impact. Meaning they should have greater force and momentum in collision physics. A group of dwarf tanks in a shield wall should be able to plow into opponents, pushing them back. If mobility is the virtual of elves and versatility is the virtue of humans, then dwarves need that physical presence although they lack stature, which should create a smaller hit box.
  • Night WingsNight Wings Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59830/the-dwarf-skin-and-design-still-doesnt-convince-me/p1

    Another post about the dwarf there ^

    Barab wrote: »
    The original OG Dwarf flip.

    https://youtu.be/xFXUYl2ljqI?si=IUflLeZMz47BUP38


    I will assume the Dunir model is still under construction and look forward to giving proper feedback once we are in testing. We look forward to avenging Dunir tank BrianF's face shaving as we suspect Empyrean and Py'Rai Elven hands at work there.


    First of all the video cracked me up don't know what game this is, but it was enjoyable to watch lmao and another thing as a "Empyrean" player ill have you know I did not touch your beard and if I did it was to start a fire xD!!
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    RocketFarmer wrote: »
    People talk about wanting heavy weapons to have impact. I think they need to ensure that the orcs and dwarves have the physical presence of impact. Meaning they should have greater force and momentum in collision physics. A group of dwarf tanks in a shield wall should be able to plow into opponents, pushing them back. If mobility is the virtual of elves and versatility is the virtue of humans, then dwarves need that physical presence although they lack stature, which should create a smaller hit box.

    Except the races have lost all racial traits. Each race is a basic skin with augments attached. I do not see how an augment will be able to spec into a stat like strength. If you are too blasay to make the strength higher than all others then strength won't have to be speced into and everyone and their mums will only request dwarf tanks forever more. I do not enjoy meta gaming. I want a blank slate as much as possible to build my toon. It's like Baldurs Gate 3. 90% of players used Half Elves for their toons because of the amalgamation of the racial traits and I do not particularly want 90% of tanks to be dwarves. Hell, I don't want 90% of dwarves to be clerics either.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Songcaller wrote: »
    RocketFarmer wrote: »
    People talk about wanting heavy weapons to have impact. I think they need to ensure that the orcs and dwarves have the physical presence of impact. Meaning they should have greater force and momentum in collision physics. A group of dwarf tanks in a shield wall should be able to plow into opponents, pushing them back. If mobility is the virtual of elves and versatility is the virtue of humans, then dwarves need that physical presence although they lack stature, which should create a smaller hit box.

    Except the races have lost all racial traits. Each race is a basic skin with augments attached. I do not see how an augment will be able to spec into a stat like strength. If you are too blasay to make the strength higher than all others then strength won't have to be speced into and everyone and their mums will only request dwarf tanks forever more. I do not enjoy meta gaming. I want a blank slate as much as possible to build my toon. It's like Baldurs Gate 3. 90% of players used Half Elves for their toons because of the amalgamation of the racial traits and I do not particularly want 90% of tanks to be dwarves. Hell, I don't want 90% of dwarves to be clerics either.

    When did we have racial traits scrapped? I missed that update and would be disappointed to see it go :(
  • HalaeHalae Member, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    When did we have racial traits scrapped? I missed that update and would be disappointed to see it go :(
    We don't know when exactly it was that they made the change, but the idea is, instead, "backgrounds", at least as of about 9 months ago. You can see it here in this Reddit thread. The idea is that backgrounds replace races as the source point for your racial augments, so that you can choose the character visuals you like without being boxed into a mechanical position just because you elected to be muscular, or short, or whatever.

    It's actually important to note that if this is the thing they end up going with (which isn't guaranteed) then backgrounds are actually easier to add new versions of than races. Races require an animation setup, model work, adding it to the character creator, etc. whereas backgrounds are a selection and some bonus options that you can staple onto your skills in place of other augments. That's a good thing. There's lots of people who don't want to be constrained by CharOp the same way you are in dungeons and dragons or whatever.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Barab wrote: »
    The original OG Dwarf flip.

    https://youtu.be/xFXUYl2ljqI?si=IUflLeZMz47BUP38
    That is the coolest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Halae wrote: »
    We don't know when exactly it was that they made the change, but the idea is, instead, "backgrounds", at least as of about 9 months ago. You can see it here in this Reddit thread. The idea is that backgrounds replace races as the source point for your racial augments, so that you can choose the character visuals you like without being boxed into a mechanical position just because you elected to be muscular, or short, or whatever.

    It's actually important to note that if this is the thing they end up going with (which isn't guaranteed) then backgrounds are actually easier to add new versions of than races. Races require an animation setup, model work, adding it to the character creator, etc. whereas backgrounds are a selection and some bonus options that you can staple onto your skills in place of other augments. That's a good thing. There's lots of people who don't want to be constrained by CharOp the same way you are in dungeons and dragons or whatever.
    No where have the devs stated that Backgrounds replace Racial Augments.
    Stats are not the same thing as Augments.
    And, we still need to get more info on what the current plan is because when Steven mentioned Backgrounds - it was something tentative that the team was discussing at that time.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Halae wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    When did we have racial traits scrapped? I missed that update and would be disappointed to see it go :(
    We don't know when exactly it was that they made the change, but the idea is, instead, "backgrounds", at least as of about 9 months ago. You can see it here in this Reddit thread. The idea is that backgrounds replace races as the source point for your racial augments, so that you can choose the character visuals you like without being boxed into a mechanical position just because you elected to be muscular, or short, or whatever.

    It's actually important to note that if this is the thing they end up going with (which isn't guaranteed) then backgrounds are actually easier to add new versions of than races. Races require an animation setup, model work, adding it to the character creator, etc. whereas backgrounds are a selection and some bonus options that you can staple onto your skills in place of other augments. That's a good thing. There's lots of people who don't want to be constrained by CharOp the same way you are in dungeons and dragons or whatever.

    That’s a huge shame, very disappointing to hear that the player races actually don’t matter at all.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Halae wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    When did we have racial traits scrapped? I missed that update and would be disappointed to see it go :(
    We don't know when exactly it was that they made the change, but the idea is, instead, "backgrounds", at least as of about 9 months ago. You can see it here in this Reddit thread. The idea is that backgrounds replace races as the source point for your racial augments, so that you can choose the character visuals you like without being boxed into a mechanical position just because you elected to be muscular, or short, or whatever.

    It's actually important to note that if this is the thing they end up going with (which isn't guaranteed) then backgrounds are actually easier to add new versions of than races. Races require an animation setup, model work, adding it to the character creator, etc. whereas backgrounds are a selection and some bonus options that you can staple onto your skills in place of other augments. That's a good thing. There's lots of people who don't want to be constrained by CharOp the same way you are in dungeons and dragons or whatever.

    That’s a huge shame, very disappointing to hear that the player races actually don’t matter at all.

    Yea, lame as hell that choosing a race is purely aesthetic and has little to no weight in regards to permanent choices.
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