Bard - Melodies

Shaladoor · August 21

Hello! It's been awhile since I've last posted (4 years, it seems...) and I couldn't resist after seeing the Bard preview. This analysis started with me wondering, "How good are these melodies?" The reason I asked this is because the livestream assumes the Bard is with a group. Now while a Bard is in fact a team player and meant for group play, that may not always be possible for a player trying to level a Bard. Anyways, I went full nerd and wanted to share.

tl;dr
[Cheerful Melody] : Passive is fine, may need tuning. [Resonant Weapon] is too strong as a single target heal in solo play, but not worth it in group play. I imagine bots would play a Bard, use [Cheerful Melody], and just auto attack away. The melody requires no MP, attacking requires no MP, and the single target healing through [Resonant Weapon] is so good it makes solo gameplay braindead.
[Pensive Melody] : Passive regen might not be strong enough. [Resonant Weapon] effect is too strong compared to the passive. To eliminate degenerate gameplay, make the [Resonant Weapon] effect only benefit the bard and compensate the group by increasing the passive regen. Since all mana regen to the party is passive, the Bard is free to use their toolkit. Otherwise, they could be pressured to become mindless auto-attack mana batteries.
[Cathartic Melody] : Benefit to the group is independent of Bard. For example, a level 10 Bard's melody potentially provides the same effect as a level 50 Bard's melody. Not really a problem, just an observation. Also, passive leech provided may not scale with DoT effects which could really hurt the effectiveness of the leech provided to the group.
[Menacing Melody] : Benefit to the group is independent of Bard, same as Cathartic. No real criticism, though, just needs proper tuning.
[Epic Melody] : Epic trolling in the right hands. Feel free to read my story near the bottom. Maybe just needs a little toning down?

I'll start with observations and assumptions.

Observations from the video:

The spellbook appears to have a roughly 5 second attack rotation and hits 4 times with 2 of those hits being a combo finisher. This can be seen in the Youtube video starting at 1:24:22. Bard starts [Cheerful Melody], and then starts attacking with the spellbook. Purple flashes twice from the spellbook, dealing 21 and 23 damage. Then the spellbook crits for 45 and Bard does 101 healing via [Resonant Weapon], then +20 appears twice (double hit? Visual glitch?) and another +101 healing is done through [Resonant Weapon] indicating a second combo finisher.
It appears that the crit rate of healing done through [Resonant Weapon] is independent of whether the weapon attack crits. In the video, I saw both cases: one where the heal crit but the combo finisher didn't, and the opposite where the combo finisher was a crit but the heal wasn't. Unclear if this is intentional. Just an observation.

Assumptions:

Spellbook has roughly a 5 second rotation with 2 combo finishers (2 normal hits, then 2 combo finishers).
Magical Power is 33.4 as shown in the video.
Calculations are generally not rounded and only show 1 decimal place. One exception is on [Pensive Melody].
[Resonant Weapon] chosen as a talent. Would be silly not to.
Weapon rotations are always executed in full, no partial executions or interruptions.
Melodies are off the global cooldown and therefore allows full uptime of the buff. In other words, no time is lost between the start of the melody and the start of the weapon attack sequence allowing 4 full weapon cycles per 20 second melody.
The only abilities being used are melodies and weapon attacks. Any other abilities used would lower the effects of [Resonant Weapon] triggers, but not the passive effects. Therefore, [Resonant Weapon] trigger effects listed can be considered "best case" and are by no means meant to be interpreted as expected during normal play.

The above image includes HP and MP numbers taken from the livestream. These numbers are used when calculating time to fully restore HP/MP values for the group as well as the Bard (Bucky).

One other assumption is DPS numbers by the group. Using numbers from the livestream, average group DPS was calculated at 159.36 rounded up to 160. Average player DPS was then calculated as 160/6 = 26.7 DPS. On the youtube video of the livestream, mobs were DPSed down from 2:03:37 to 2:05:37. There were 4 mobs alive around that point: Taskmaster (HP = 10,538), Thrall 1 (HP = 818), Thrall 2 (HP = 818), and Outhouser (HP = 7682). That's 19,856 damage done over 2 minutes which equates to 165.5 DPS as a group. That also assumes no healing was done by the mobs during that time, which would only increase the required DPS. Then, from 2:05:50 to 2:06:24, the Taskmaster was defeated with only single target DPS after he resurrected with 4685 HP, resulting in an average 137.8 DPS over 34 seconds. Combining those two events, (24,541 HP / 154 seconds) = 159.36 DPS. I rounded up to 160 for the analysis and player DPS is considered equal between players.

[Cheerful Melody]

[Cheerful Melody] : Nearby party members gain [Cheerful Melody]: Healing received increased by 20%. Also lightly heals for 15% healing every 2 seconds.
[Resonant Weapon] : Heal a nearby injured ally for 250% healing. Favors yourself and party members.

[Cheerful Melody] would restore [15%(33.4)(1+20%)]= 6.0 health every 2 seconds, or 3 HPS (heals per second) per party member. Yes, the passive 15% healing also benefits from the 20% increased healing!
[Resonant Weapon] would restore [250%(33.4)(1+20%)]= 100.2 health per combo finisher. With a spellbook capable of hitting two combo finishers within a rough 5 second attack window, that's approximately [100.2 * 2 / 5] = 40.4 HPS. (The livestream shows healing of 101 from triggers, so rounding is happening somewhere).

The table below highlights potential HPS.

The average time to refill an entire party's health = 4575 HP / 58.4 HPS = 78.3 seconds
The average time to refill your health while solo = 569 HP / 43.4 HPS = 13.1 seconds

The [Resonant Weapon] effect is MUCH stronger than the passive benefit of the melody. The melody is passive, requires no global cooldowns, and heals outside of combat. [Resonant Weapon] triggers require constant weapon attacks + combo finishers, allows no wiggle room for other "on cooldown" abilities, and has no benefit outside of combat.

Overall, I think [Cheerful Melody] is best in small group and solo situations. While the [Resonant Weapon] effect is very strong, it doesn't scale at all in group play (OK, maybe a little if you're getting magical attack power buffs or attack speed buffs from somewhere). Also, chain casting weapon attacks locks out the rest of the Bard's toolkit and most of a bard's toolkit is built to support the group. With other healing cooldowns available, the strongest part of [Cheerful Melody], the [Resonant Weapon] triggers, may not get realized.

Thoughts:
The healing portion of [Resonant Weapon] is triggered from combo finishers from weapons, but is powered by magical attack power. This means that given two magical weapons with similar magical power, the faster weapon could simply be better for [Resonant Weapon] trigger effects in every scenario. The amount healed by [Resonant Weapon] isn't determined by how strong the combo finisher actually is, just only that it happens. Players will certainly look for cheese tactics where weapons hit rapidly.

For example, imagine if there was a magical bow (to grant magical attack power) with a combo finisher that hit rapidly (say 5 times) but only did very minor damage. The healing done through [Resonant Weapon] triggers would still be 101 per hit, but it would heal 5 times. Compare that to a spellbook that hits 2 times. I think 505 healing (101 healing * 5 triggers) with a bow > 202 healing with a spellbook. This kind of thing may not ever be possible, but I think it's better to point out the possibility now rather than later.

However, here's the same scenario but only slightly more degenerate. Imagine if it wasn't a magical bow, it was a physical attack power bow, but STILL provided better [Resonant Weapon] healing simply because it offered more combo finishers per rotation. Imagine if a non-caster weapon was better for healing than a caster weapon MEANT for healing.

Finally, the [Resonant Weapon] trigger is a single heal to a random party member. There isn't a compelling reason to chain together weapon attacks instead of using the Bard toolkit. It's single target damage with single heals. And that's OK! It can be the default thing to do when nothing else is going on and the party is doing fine. However, it just isn't very compelling gameplay.

Recommendations:

Combo finishers with weapons need to be taken into account here. Maybe have an extra modifier for [Resonant Weapon] triggers where it takes into account the damage of the combo finisher relative to the weapon itself? For example, slower weapons with large hitting combo finishers could heal for more, but at a slower pace because it's a slower weapon. Faster weapons with softer hitting combo finishers could heal for less, but at a much quicker pace.
The [Resonant Weapon] single heal effect seems too strong for solo play and unreliable in group play. Maybe instead of a strong single target heal it could be a weaker heal, but AoE? It would force a solo player to be more mindful (as they might not be able to just auto attack and zone out) and would increase the AoE healing power of the Bard during group play (because, you know, group support role). Spending 5 seconds for a fully cycled weapon chain to attack a single target and throw out two random single heals on party members, to me, doesn't flow very well. Maybe it's the randomness of where the heals land that leaves me wanting more. Who knows, I may be in the minority on this one.

[Pensive Melody]

Ah, the problem child. I think most players debating rolling a Bard are worried about becoming nothing more than a mana battery. I'm sure some players just won't care one way or another, but it's a concern.

[Pensive Melody] : Nearby party members gain [Pensive Melody]: Restores mana equal to 1 + 1% magical power every 2 seconds.
[Resonant Weapon] : Restore mana to a nearby ally in need equal to 25 + 5% magical power. Favors yourself and party members.

[Pensive Melody] would restore [1 + 1%(33.4)] = 1.3 mana every 2 seconds.
[Resonant Weapon] would restore [25 + 5%(33.4)]= 26.67 mana per combo finisher.

In a full 20 second [Pensive Melody] cycle, total potential mana restored = (20 seconds)(# party members)(MPS per party member) + (27 mana per combo finisher)(2 combo finishers / 5 second weapon rotation)

Now in the above graphic, I went ahead and rounded up the 1.3 mana given to 2, as that's what happened in the video. The same is true with the mana regen via [Resonant Weapon] triggers, I rounded up to 27. So in effect, I'm actually grossly overestimating the passive mana regen. In a full group, instead of 6 MPS it's actually 4 MPS without rounding. So even with some generous rounding up on the passive mana regen, it pales in overall group benefit compared to just spamming weapon attacks, and that's the point.

Average time to refill entire party = 2894 MP / 16.8 MPS = 172.3 seconds, or just under three minutes.
Average time to refill bard's MP = 457 MP / 11.8 MPS = 38.7 seconds (Bucky was the Bard in the video, see table near the top).

The calculations are just a rough estimate, but even assuming nonstop weapon attacks and 2 [Resonant Weapon] triggers every 5 seconds, it would still take almost 3 minutes to fully regen a party from 0 to full. It was clear that the group in the video was struggling with mana during some really heavy pulls, but the Bard wasn't fully utilizing [Resonant Weapon] triggers. The longer that fights drag on, the more important mana conservation and regeneration becomes. Bards may not like it but being a mana battery may be the single most important group benefit they provide, both PVE and PVP.

So the question is this; should Bucky have focused solely only being a mana battery and doing everything to ensure the Cleric was supplied with mana? Well, that depends. Was mana the real issue? And even if Bucky did in fact go full on mana battery, it's hard to tell exactly how much mana would have actually gone to the cleric because it's possible the procs may have landed on other party members. Also, things went to crap fairly early and that doesn't allow a lot of time for [Pensive Melody] or [Resonant Weapon] triggers to tip the scales.

In a raid, it is a very real possibility that a Bard could be asked to keep [Pensive Melody] up at all times and only do weapon attacks. If the group is simply that starved for mana, they could very well try that and if it works, well.. expect it to be meta.

A well balanced PVP encounter could also be tilted in your favor with a Bard. Again, the longer the fights drag out then the more benefit a Bard brings with mana regen. If you outlast another group in PVP, that very well might be the difference between victory and defeat.

However! Again, this is all predicated on the assumption that a bard is ONLY casting weapon attacks, isn't interrupted, gets 2 combo finishers every 5 seconds, and mana regen isn't wasted by overcapping. Blah blah blah, disclaimers, etc

Thoughts:
The ratio of passive regen of [Pensive Melody] vs trigger regen of [Resonant Weapon] is too skewed in favor of [Resonant Weapon]. If the most mana regen comes from a Bard using weapon attacks, they could very well be expected to do that and only that. A rare case, I would imagine, but still possible. The more the regen is skewed towards [Resonant Weapon], the more backlash a Bard might receive from doing anything other than mindlessly fishing for combo finishers.

Recommendations:

[Resonant Weapon] regen could be changed to only affect the Bard. If that happens, the Bard would never be turned into a mindless mana bot using only weapon attacks. The Bard would receive no backlash from casting other spells and then could weave weapon attacks inbetween spell casts so they don't go OOM themselves.
If [Resonant Weapon] regen is changed to only affect the bard, then passive regen to the party could be adjusted accordingly (most likely up). It also means you can easily adjust either one without affecting the other.

[Cathartic Melody]

[Cathartic Melody] : Nearby party members gain [Cathartic Melody]: Your attacks have a 25% chance to heal yourself for 50% of the damage done.
[Resonant Weapon] : Deal bonus (75%) bleed damage and apply Wounded to each target hit.

[Cathartic Melody]'s expected value of healing = (25% proc chance)(50% of damage done) = 12.5% of DPS converted to healing on average in the long run.
[Resonant Weapon] applies 75% bleed and Wounded.

There's an issue here, and that's DoT effects. It's unclear right away whether DoT effects will trigger [Cathartic Melody]. In some cases it could be straightforward, but in other cases not. For example, what if bleed effects stack onto a mob? Would the system keep track of how many bleeds belong to each party member, separate them all out, and heal accordingly? I think it's much more likely that [Cathartic Melody] will only trigger on direct damage. If that's true, [Cathartic Melody] loses value the more that group DPS is derived from DoTs.

For the sake of argument, let's assume ALL damage benefits from [Cathartic Melody]. In a full 20s [Cathartic Melody], total possible health restored = (20 seconds)(# party members)(Average Player DPS)(12.5%)

As a reminder, the GROUP average DPS was calculated at around 160 DPS. In a 6 player group, that comes out to 26.6 DPS. Mileage will vary, of course, but per player the average HPS is (160 DPS)(12.5%) / (6 players) = 3.3 HPS

Average time to refill an entire party's health = 4575 HP / 19.9 HPS = 229.7 seconds, or 3 minutes 50 seconds.
Average time to refill the Bard's health = 457 HP / 3.3 HPS = 137.7 seconds, or 2 minutes 18 seconds.

Now right away, that may not seem like very much, but here's the thing; it's all passive! Compared to the passive regen from [Cheerful Melody], it's almost identical. That's good news because you can get roughly the same passive healing as [Cheerful Melody] but squeeze a little more DPS out of your weapon attacks through [Resonant Weapon] triggers. Or, if melody weaving, you can double up on the passive healing by running [Cathartic Melody] alongside [Cheerful Melody].

The downside here is that the numbers above assume 100% of damage is convertible through [Cathartic Melody]. If it turns out to be the case that DoT damage does not translate into passive healing, then the actual HPS numbers would be lower.

However, there's one other upside; the healing via [Cathartic Melody] is contingent on the individual DPS of the members of the group, and has nothing to do with the Bard. That means, theoretically, a level 10 Bard could provide the same passive HPS through [Cathartic Melody] as a level 50 Bard.

Thoughts:
The passive leech healing could very well out-scale the passive healing via [Cheerful Melody] when the group is doing consistent DPS. However, it requires the group to... well... be doing DPS. If there is downtime, or players are stunned, or not attacking, or generally just standing around doing anything BUT attacking then the passive leech provided by [Cathartic Melody] will drop off or simply be nonexistent. That makes the passive healing via [Cheerful Melody] very consistent and the leech via [Cathartic Melody] very situational. I think there's great risk/reward with this melody and all it needs is proper tuning.

[Menacing Melody]

[Menacing Melody] : Nearby enemies take 10% increased damage.
[Resonant Weapon] : Deal bonus (75%) arcane damage and apply Weakened to each target hit.

This one is pretty straight forward. It's a straight up DPS increase, your [Resonant Weapon] deals extra damage on combo finishers, and applies Weakened. This one will likely feel good in any situation. It's unclear yet exactly what Weakened will do.

Based on earlier calculations, the group was dealing approximately 160 DPS or 26.7 DPS per player.

If a player does 26.7 DPS, the benefit per person from [Menacing Melody] is 2.67 DPS. In addition, we need to calculate the benefit of [Resonant Weapon] as it produces an extra (75%) arcane damage on a combo finisher and it also benefits from [Menacing Melody]. That's 2 [Resonant Weapon] triggers for 33.4(75%) = 25.1 damage each and equates roughly 10.0 DPS before [Menacing Melody] buffs it an extra 10%. In this example, yes, we are assuming that a Bard's DPS was 26.7 before [Menacing Melody] and there's no opportunity cost involved with applying it. Relax!

So the group DPS scales up per player, however the DPS from [Resonant Weapon] does not, as the Bard is the only one triggering it. The extra DPS from the [Resonant Weapon] trigger + the extra 10% from the passive totals to the final column.

Thoughts:
It's not a great amount of DPS, however it is all passive and that feels pretty good. [Menacing Melody] gets better as your group DPS gets better. The DPS numbers pulled from the video were generally from single target damage, so imagine how large a benefit the group could derive from large AoE pulls.

Also, [Menacing Melody] can be cycled on during large burst windows and then cycled off during DPS downtime or if HP/MP regen is more urgent. The [Resonant Weapon] effect of applying Weakened will need to be explored. All in all I think it's a good melody just needs proper tuning.

[Epic Melody]

The problem child you may not even know existed, in my opinion.

[Epic Melody] : Nearby party members gain [Epic Melody]: movement speed increased by 20%.
[Resonant Weapon] : Dispel up to 1 root and apply [Pep] to each party member.
[Pep] : A momentary 20% movement speed boost. Lasts 5 seconds.

First, I would just like to tip my hat to the dev who landed on these particular choices. This is seriously some next level trolling right here. Not because of how over the top it is, because it isn't. It's because of how subtle and unexpected it is! Seriously, thinking about how much this can (and likely will) be abused has grinning

Let me paint you a picture.

Imagine a large scale PVP battle. Most players are generally grouped up together when in a party, otherwise they are somewhat spread out. There is safety in numbers, but you don't want to get too close. You are with your full party of 6, near the fringes of the fight. As a group you believe yourself better off than the rest. However, your false sense of safety soon becomes clear.

A short distance away, a flagged group of enemies (full group of 6) comes charging over a hill. Previously obscured from view, they no longer try to conceal themselves as they charge forward. 1 Bard, 1 Cleric, and 4 bloodthirsty melee. They are running at you full speed, and something seems off... something seems very wrong...

"Why are they running so fast?" you ask yourself. Then, it becomes clear. This Bard isn't a healing Bard, or a mana battery, or even a DPS bard. No, it's a movement speed Bard. This bard has [Epic Melody] up for 20% movement speed. After they crest the hill, they pop [Nimble Dance] to grant their group an additional 20% movement speed for 5 seconds, and they are upon you like a swarm.

You don't have time to react as this Bard jumps into your group and pops [Mesmerizing Dance] to incapacitate your entire party. The 4 bloodthirsty DPS are on comms together and call out their first victim, the Cleric, mowing them down before incapacitate wears off. You can only stare in horror. The Bard then refocuses and casts [Dark Lullaby] on another teammate, and after a 3 second cast that player is stunned for an additional 6 seconds. This swirling ball of pure melee destruction focuses that stunned player and they get mowed down just like the Cleric. In a few short moments, you are now down 2 players and it's 4v6. Your comms explode, "Run away!"

And you try... but you can't. Why? Because the other group has a movement Bard. As a roaming ball of murder, they get 20% permanent movement speed from [Epic Melody] and as long as the Bard has something to attack, he can grant an additional 20% on top of that through [Pep] with [Resonant Weapon] triggers on combo finishers. If there's nothing to attack, [Nimble Dance] puts the proper [Pep] back in their step!

You may try to root or snare their group, but AGAIN due to [Resonant Weapon] triggers on combo finishers, roots are dispelled and [Pep] is then AGAIN reapplied.

There's simply no outrunning them, so you make a desperate move to sacrifice yourself. If you can take out or maybe just even stall their Bard, your group might have a chance to make an escape.

You try to get near the Bard but he uses [Get Off The Stage] to knock you back, snare you, and then very flamboyantly dance away with a [Flourish]. The Bard then turns around and smacks you in the face with a tomato using his [Quick Wit], just to [Demoralize] you. As if you weren't already.

The fight was over before it started. While the Bard toyed with you, a third teammate went down. A fourth teammate mounted up, but their mount was quickly DPSed down and then they were, too. Your last teammate happened to be able to mount up and run away. It's hard to say how far they will get, though. If their mount speed is less than 140%, they may not get very far...

So that's how [Epic Melody] can be trollish in PVP. That much movement speed could make it very hard for opposing players to disengage from a fight.

Here are some other situations where [Epic Melody] becomes just that, epic.

PVE: Raid encounters and "standing in the bad". I think we're all aware how movement speed can be the difference between being alive or getting 1-shot by mechanics. Extra movement speed is like insurance on the slow reaction speeds of players.

SOLO: Need to escape a sticky situation? Use [Get Off The Stage] to knock back melee enemies and snare them, cast [Epic Melody] off global cooldown for instant 20% movement speed, hit [Flourish] for another 20% movement speed, and then hit the road! You can either re-engage from a distance and keep yourself out of range by chaining weapon attacks and constantly dispelling roots on yourself and reapplying [Pep] for permanent 40% extra movement speed, or you can simply run away. They won't catch you.

SOLO: 40% permanent movement speed as long as you do a combo finisher at least once every 5 seconds. Talk about kiting possibilities. Bards could probably solo tank a lot of tough mobs as long as they paid attention and never let the enemy get close enough. And that's true in PVE as well as PVP. If you're an [Epic Melody] bard and can give yourself almost permanent 40% movement speed while attacking and dispelling roots, then you should never lose a 1v1 against a melee.

Group PVE: How about a tank with 40% extra movement speed? They could round up a big group of mobs and perma-kite them with that much extra movement speed. As long as they kept aggro, the rest of the group could DPS and the group may never even take damage. If aggro becomes an issue, a Bard can cast [Misdirection] to reduce threat on nearby party members.

There's so much cheese possible, I can't wait to see the types of shenanigans other players can come up with.

Well, that's my review of the melodies. It's late. I'm going to bed.

daveywavey · August 21

FYI: Official Feedback Thread is here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59805/feedback-request-alpha-two-bard-archetype-preview-shown-in-july-livestream/p1

Bard - Melodies

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