What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?

So, we were told in the stream, before the fight, that FireBrand was going to do something that was surprising.

I want to briefly discuss this separately because I want to calibrate my expectations. I watched the fight pretty carefully, but I can't figure out what Firebrand did, that wasn't entirely just what you would expect.

Now, I know that I'm a Monster Hunter player so I have different ideas, so I ask, for those who mostly only play MMOs or don't play either MMOs or Monster Hunter style games...

What surprised/impressed you about FireBrand's actions or mechanics?

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Otr

Evil people killed the poor dragon. What a surprise.

Mag7spy

I'b be more surprised if the brought the egg home and cooked it XD

RocketFarmer

Rewatching the event, it could be the cultists who’ve stolen the egg to create the artifact (orb of ultimate essence) that they are using to break into the vault that has been seal for over 1000 years. So if the cult is more recent, then the dragon’s age would make sense with the young description.

But still curious on what ages dragons are in AoC compared to other games and perhaps their connection to the apocalypse.

Now the other question is do you allow the cultists to break the seal on the vault so that you can enter perhaps a dungeon or instanced area?

Azherae

RocketFarmer wrote: »

Rewatching the event, it could be the cultists who’ve stolen the egg to create the artifact (orb of ultimate essence) that they are using to break into the vault that has been seal for over 1000 years. So if the cult is more recent, then the dragon’s age would make sense with the young description.

But still curious on what ages dragons are in AoC compared to other games and perhaps their connection to the apocalypse.

Now the other question is do you allow the cultists to break the seal on the vault so that you can enter perhaps a dungeon or instanced area?

That would ruin my awesome headcanon of FireBrand still being a Summoner (as in A1) and friends/allies with He-Who-Beguiles, but I think it's a bit more 'implied' that FireBrand is somehow 'related' to the current state of the POI, right?

A powerful dragon summoner would have just left Flame Elementals around for defense in case of any upstarts trying to disrupt their peaceful home while they were off looking for snacks. But having rewatched it myself, I'm finding myself agreeing with you, unfortunately.

Unless the Cultists are directly FireBrand's followers, rather than having specifically stolen the egg, in which case everything goes back to making perfect sense (and explains why FireBrand didn't come to attack just for the relic being there, but came as soon as all their Flame Elemental guards were extinguished, or whatever).

Ludullu

This is what was surprising for me, but I didn't mention it here from the start, even though I commented on this when watching the stream.

Either GM powers or respawn location let people just stand up a few meters away from the boss with full hp and mana
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/468590/#Comment_468590

Noaani

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

This is what was surprising for me, but I didn't mention it here from the start, even though I commented on this when watching the stream.

Either GM powers or respawn location let people just stand up a few meters away from the boss with full hp and mana
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/468590/#Comment_468590

Keep in mind, this was not a showcase of how hard the fight was.

If we assume the fight is actually properly tuned (we don't assume that, because it is not physically possible), and if we assume that it was designed to be actually hard when looked at within the context of all MMORPG raids, then it wouldn't be possible for the developers to beat it with the characters they were using. Not even the classes - the characters.

Laetitian

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

ariatras

I've given it some thought, as I was a little underwhelmed when it was shown during the live-stream.

1. Combat Dynamics and Challenge Level

Current Observation: While the dragon does engage in some aerial maneuvers and scorches the earth, much of the fight sees it remaining on the ground. This static behavior reduces the threat level and undermines the dragon's inherent aerial advantage.
Suggestion: Dragons, by their very nature, should rarely give up the advantage of flight, particularly in an open battle. The fight could be greatly enhanced by making flight the dragon’s default behavior, with it only coming to ground under specific conditions. For instance, the dragon could stay airborne for the majority of the battle, executing strafing runs with its breath attack and using its wings to create powerful gusts of wind that push players back or disrupt their formations. This would make the fight more dynamic and require players to adapt to a constantly moving target, increasing both the difficulty and the excitement.

2. Introducing Mechanics to Ground the Dragon

Current Observation: Given the dragon's tendency to remain grounded, the fight loses some of its epic potential, especially considering that dragons should be seen as nearly insurmountable challenges without proper preparation.

Suggestion: To justify bringing the dragon to the ground, players should have to employ specific mechanics that force it out of the sky. This could be achieved through the use of siege equipment, as well as other innovative gameplay elements:

Siege Equipment: Players could utilize existing siege weapons, such as ballistae or cannons, to target the dragon while it is airborne. These weapons could be placed around the battlefield and would require coordination to use effectively, adding a layer of strategy to the fight. The siege equipment could be specifically designed to deal significant damage to the dragon's wings, forcing it to land temporarily for repairs or recovery, creating windows of opportunity for melee combat.
Harpoon or Net Launchers: Players could operate large, stationary weapons designed to pull the dragon to the ground, requiring teamwork to operate effectively. These could be spread across the battlefield, forcing the dragon to target and disable them unless the players do so first.
Grounding Spells: Mages or specific classes could be given access to spells or abilities that temporarily disrupt the dragon’s ability to fly, such as grounding sigils or binding chains that tether the dragon to the earth.
Exploiting Weaknesses: The dragon might have vulnerable moments after specific aerial attacks, where it needs to land to recuperate energy or after performing a particularly devastating move. Players could capitalize on these moments to deal more damage or to force the dragon into a vulnerable state on the ground.

3. Enhancing Team Dynamics with Defensive and Collision Mechanics

Current Observation: The dragon’s breath attacks are visually stunning, but they present an opportunity for greater player interaction, especially considering the game’s planned player collision feature.

Suggestion: The use of player collision could enhance the team dynamic during these breath attacks. Tanks could form a physical barrier with their shields, protecting the party from the dragon’s fire breath. This mechanic could be tied to the dragon’s airborne nature, with it swooping down to unleash these attacks, making positioning and timing critical.
Implementation Ideas:
Shield Wall Formation: The game could detect when a certain number of tanks are aligned in a formation, triggering a special defense mode that reduces or blocks incoming damage from the dragon’s breath.
Dynamic Battlefield Changes: The breath attack could also alter the environment, scorching the ground and creating temporary hazards that players must avoid. The use of the shield wall could prevent these hazards from spreading, adding a layer of strategic planning to the encounter.
Interactive Collision Feedback: When the dragon’s fire breath hits the shield wall, it could create a dramatic visual and auditory effect, reinforcing the significance of this team-based defensive maneuver.

These are of course just a few things that jump to mind. As it stands now, it looks rather dull.

RocketFarmer

Agree on the air superiority advantage. Better tactics for the dragon would be strafing attacks; targeted snatch and drop against single targets; separation of the opponents with fire wall; aerial body slam on ranged attackers grouped too close together; or target the person carrying the egg for a snatch and carry him to the lair. The opponents would then need to pursue, which is where you bring in the adds including a few sub-bosses. Then in the lair the aerial advantage is lessened but other environmental advantages pop up for the dragon to utilize.

BTW, I’d have the Tank’s grappling hook work to pull the Tank onto the dragon where the Tank can latch on for the ride and enable the players to oppose the dragon tactics rather than act like sitting ducks. Perhaps the tank then drops lines for the fighters and other hand-to-hand PCs to climb on and join in the fun. Of course the risk is killing the dragon at a high altitude where the fall damage could kill the riders. That’s where the dragon then uses the environment (Citadel?), hills, mountains or trees to attempt to knock off the riders. It also means the battle extends beyond the starting point and could take it all over a node, eventually ending in the dragon’s lair or a place the dragon thinks is more defensible. This also raises the likelihood of the PVP element as everyone else can witness this epic fight.

But bottom line, while I like that the fights have stages, I think they tend to be too scripted and predictable. That’s always been an issue for me with PVE in MMOs in that it becomes more of a memory game. I think there ought to be a set of options the players can engage in, or the boss to choose, that changes up the script to make for a more dynamic event. In other words you have no idea where the fight is going, although you can use tactics to try to nudge it along. The dragon AI should also recognize player tendencies to counter routines and perhaps program it to come up with new, more creative strategies and tactics.

Dresh

A few things I wanted to see added for more depth moving forward. The dragon is looking for it's egg: I would like to see more frantic passive movement pathing in the large open area. That dragon should be actively looking to fit the quest/event. A younger dragon like this not being all powerful is fine, I would like to see the fire breath interact with the water areas locally. I would like to see steam clouds coming off the water, when the dragon strafes the raid and does the breath over the water pools. Would add a LoS dynamic until the water is gone. Water again: The burning ground effect in the water pools should dissipate to offer more safe playable space or burn the water away. Seeing the burning ground in the pools seemed out of place.
Appreciate you Intrepid.

Azherae

Please remember that this is not the feedback thread.

If you have feedback on FireBrand and believe improvements are needed or have things you consider important to see in other dragons, make sure to add them here.

(I don't really mind if this thread ends up merged into the feedback thread, but I prefer 'off topic' or 'pre-feedback' discussion to not end up mixed in with the rest, is all)

Depraved

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

and you got all that from an introductory, level 25 boss when the max level is 50, on a game that isn't even out yet and its in active development, and didn't even have the boss completely finished.

sherlock holmes has arrived

Azherae

Depraved wrote: »

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

and you got all that from an introductory, level 25 boss when the max level is 50, on a game that isn't even out yet and its in active development, and didn't even have the boss completely finished.

sherlock holmes has arrived

The problem with the way you defend Intrepid/engage other posters is that if you're wrong, it's really demoralizing.

These types of feedback don't come from thin air, Intrepid tells us things that imply we are supposed to be at least a little impressed. This whole thread came from the idea that the designer of the dragon said the dragon might do something surprising.

It could simply be that the situation to trigger the surprising mechanic never came up, and it's supposed to surprise us in A2 when we fight it ourselves.

Or it could be that the dev thought they really came up with something unique and were wrong. Stop being a dick to people who want to help in the second case.

RocketFarmer

I think they were talking concept about the surprise aspect of a boss, not that the surprise would occur in the showcase. But Intrepid may want to highlight the differences in the concept discussions and what they plan to showcase so that people don’t come away with, “what surprise?” Maybe they did and I missed it, but I’ve watched it three times now and don’t recall that happening.

Depraved

Azherae wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

and you got all that from an introductory, level 25 boss when the max level is 50, on a game that isn't even out yet and its in active development, and didn't even have the boss completely finished.

sherlock holmes has arrived

The problem with the way you defend Intrepid/engage other posters is that if you're wrong, it's really demoralizing.

These types of feedback don't come from thin air, Intrepid tells us things that imply we are supposed to be at least a little impressed. This whole thread came from the idea that the designer of the dragon said the dragon might do something surprising.

It could simply be that the situation to trigger the surprising mechanic never came up, and it's supposed to surprise us in A2 when we fight it ourselves.

Or it could be that the dev thought they really came up with something unique and were wrong. Stop being a dick to people who want to help in the second case.

glad we are in a free society xD

anyways to focus on the point you are making, the designer said the dragon will do things that are expected from dragons, such as a tail swipe, a claw attack and a fire breath attack, and will also do things that arent expected from dragons. he didn't say that there will be revolutionary or groundbreaking mechanics. he just said the dragon will do things that arent expected from dragons.

imagine you are fighting a wolf. you expect the wolf to lunge and bite you. you don't expect the wolf to swipe you with its claws. that's that you would expect from a tiger. if a wolf in verra swipes you, that's an unexpected action from a wolf, and claw swiping isn't anything groundbreaking. you would also not expect a wolf or a tiger to beat its chest, charge at you, jump in the air and slap you. that's what the dev was referring to.

back to drama. why you never call out other people hubris or egos thinking they know more? would you tell your doctor what tests to run on you and how to diagnose you? what would you do if you saw someone sick trying to tell their doctor what kind of tests they need to run on them, what kind of meds they need to prescribe, etc.?

edit: i wasnt particularly talking about the person i replied to. also, you missed me, admit it xD

Azherae

Depraved wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

and you got all that from an introductory, level 25 boss when the max level is 50, on a game that isn't even out yet and its in active development, and didn't even have the boss completely finished.

sherlock holmes has arrived

The problem with the way you defend Intrepid/engage other posters is that if you're wrong, it's really demoralizing.

These types of feedback don't come from thin air, Intrepid tells us things that imply we are supposed to be at least a little impressed. This whole thread came from the idea that the designer of the dragon said the dragon might do something surprising.

It could simply be that the situation to trigger the surprising mechanic never came up, and it's supposed to surprise us in A2 when we fight it ourselves.

Or it could be that the dev thought they really came up with something unique and were wrong. Stop being a dick to people who want to help in the second case.

glad we are in a free society xD

anyways to focus on the point you are making, the designer said the dragon will do things that are expected from dragons, such as a tail swipe, a claw attack and a fire breath attack, and will also do things that arent expected from dragons. he didn't say that there will be revolutionary or groundbreaking mechanics. he just said the dragon will do things that arent expected from dragons.

imagine you are fighting a wolf. you expect the wolf to lunge and bite you. you don't expect the wolf to swipe you with its claws. that's that you would expect from a tiger. if a wolf in verra swipes you, that's an unexpected action from a wolf, and claw swiping isn't anything groundbreaking. you would also not expect a wolf or a tiger to beat its chest, charge at you, jump in the air and slap you. that's what the dev was referring to.

back to drama. why you never call out other people hubris or egos thinking they know more? would you tell your doctor what tests to run on you and how to diagnose you? what would you do if you saw someone sick trying to tell their doctor what kind of tests they need to run on them, what kind of meds they need to prescribe, etc.?

I would check if there was a reason that person doing that knew what they were fucking talking about.

You know how many people nearly die in this world because they go to doctor after doctor who brushes them off and gives them the same shallow diagnosis and the same useless tests instead of listening to the patient who knows from experience why those things don't work?

Anyways, be fed, my dear social vampire. You can imagine that you actually upset me, now.

JustVine

Depraved wrote: »

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

and you got all that from an introductory, level 25 boss when the max level is 50, on a game that isn't even out yet and its in active development, and didn't even have the boss completely finished.

sherlock holmes has arrived

Guy thinks he's Moriarty -sighs- If I were Intrepid I'd be really annoyed you all keep talking down to Laetitian like this. Real over protective soccer mom energy when they just wanna have a good game.

Depraved

Azherae wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

I abhor the word elitism, but you'll eventually change my mind about that.
Anyway, Steven wasn't even the one who said that; that was all Chong. What's with the snarkiness?

I wasn't impressed by the fight either. I think the PvE-enthusiasts at this point have to recognise that they have to restrict their highest expectations to the announced instanced skillcheck encounters.
The main appeal for open world experiences will primarily have to come from mechanics that make PvX more challenging and interesting.

That said, I still have hopes in the team leaning more into gimmicks that might make the fight more basic-looking/predictable, but also more challenging in requiring more strict player coordination. (Not just instadeath effects, but things like damage immunity windows or damage reflections, or massive shield effects for the boss, or requiring specific player skills to break boss casts or effects, etc.)

I don't think Intrepid can handle the combination
of flashy/aesthetically impressive AND difficult/demanding/engaging, so I'm hoping they'll lean more into just making it challenging, without worrying so much about making it look perfect.
I think that's part.of what's holding them back from introducing more advanced mechanics.

and you got all that from an introductory, level 25 boss when the max level is 50, on a game that isn't even out yet and its in active development, and didn't even have the boss completely finished.

sherlock holmes has arrived

The problem with the way you defend Intrepid/engage other posters is that if you're wrong, it's really demoralizing.

These types of feedback don't come from thin air, Intrepid tells us things that imply we are supposed to be at least a little impressed. This whole thread came from the idea that the designer of the dragon said the dragon might do something surprising.

It could simply be that the situation to trigger the surprising mechanic never came up, and it's supposed to surprise us in A2 when we fight it ourselves.

Or it could be that the dev thought they really came up with something unique and were wrong. Stop being a dick to people who want to help in the second case.

glad we are in a free society xD

anyways to focus on the point you are making, the designer said the dragon will do things that are expected from dragons, such as a tail swipe, a claw attack and a fire breath attack, and will also do things that arent expected from dragons. he didn't say that there will be revolutionary or groundbreaking mechanics. he just said the dragon will do things that arent expected from dragons.

imagine you are fighting a wolf. you expect the wolf to lunge and bite you. you don't expect the wolf to swipe you with its claws. that's that you would expect from a tiger. if a wolf in verra swipes you, that's an unexpected action from a wolf, and claw swiping isn't anything groundbreaking. you would also not expect a wolf or a tiger to beat its chest, charge at you, jump in the air and slap you. that's what the dev was referring to.

back to drama. why you never call out other people hubris or egos thinking they know more? would you tell your doctor what tests to run on you and how to diagnose you? what would you do if you saw someone sick trying to tell their doctor what kind of tests they need to run on them, what kind of meds they need to prescribe, etc.?

I would check if there was a reason that person doing that knew what they were fucking talking about.

You know how many people nearly die in this world because they go to doctor after doctor who brushes them off and gives them the same shallow diagnosis and the same useless tests instead of listening to the patient who knows from experience why those things don't work?

Anyways, be fed, my dear social vampire. You can imagine that you actually upset me, now.

do you also know how many people are saved by doctors, specially when they listen to them? probably lot more.

the point is that people try to tell others how to do their job and consider it good feedback. and you also think that's good feedback. good feedback is different.

imagine if you were telling an architect how to design a house, or an engineer / construction worker how to build it, when you've never learned how to do it or done it. that's the point I'm trying to make with the doctor analogy.

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