The best implementation of AoE

1. Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.

AoE abilities are a core concept of mmos and need to be displayed very clearly for solo and group PvE situations very clear undercurrent translucent markings should be displayed brightly for those of your party and self in your party. With settings to minimize it to only self. It’s important to create a sense of timing and understanding of technical spacing on skills this way and will show through high saturation of multiple abilities for a sense of structure.

2. In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?

Like in any game, a strong PvP stabilizes a game and adds infinite amounts of culture and lifetime to a game; I believe this is the most important question of all.
In PvP the competitive nature of the game and nurture of skill is more apparent and enjoyable when there are nearly no AoE markings from your opponent forcing players to learn what abilities look like prior to being cast/mid cast which Allows game knowledge to shine through in PvP play. However, it’s important to balance this in Zerg gameplay so I appreciate how the question is phrased, any ability that requires the opponent to stand still or very long cast times that have the ability to one shot multiple players could be the exception and have a more clear ground telegraph whether that be via ability sparks or an actual ground marking. Please take this into consideration and ensure PvP has a larger skill ceiling by allowing a very limited or no telegraphs that are from opponents.

3. How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?

Friendly players should always be able to clearly see what you’re doing to help group play and even as a tool to help teach those in your party if you see them doing something sub-par with a skill, or where best for them to place a certain aoe, so very for friendly grouped players.
Enemy players again shouldn’t have many or any telegraphs to grow skill ceiling and allow players to have a reason to learn all the abilities natural setups from playing with them or through alts to learn what players might do in PvP without the telegraph help.

4. Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?

I’m sure nearly everyone would agree especially with the direction AoC has been taking; in PvE and raid settings seeing all players around them on a distance slider and a on/off option for different types of content, and computer strengths.
very important to see all abilities marked on ground in PvE.

5. Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!

Guild Wars 2 has probably the best example of PvP and PvE AoE, also not that it’s my favourite but ESO has very great PvP balance if you’re interested.

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Comments

Kilion

Haven't seen you on the Forums before, so I'll just go ahead and say: Welcome!

Tuezday wrote: »

1. Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.

Who is "We"?
Who are you working for?! O_O

Tuezday wrote: »

AoE abilities are a core concept of mmos and need to be displayed very clearly for solo and group PvE situations very clear undercurrent translucent markings should be displayed brightly for those of your party and self in your party. With settings to minimize it to only self. It’s important to create a sense of timing and understanding of technical spacing on skills this way and will show through high saturation of multiple abilities for a sense of structure.

No. I'm not playing dance dance revolution where the sky lights up and I have to hop into the right area.
In an MMORPGs where people use their brains instead of putting the game on a second screen while listening to Crypto Bro 420 playing ASMR Minecraft, sometime there are subtle indicators on the ground to avoid an AOE ability, sometimes there are none because the movement of the enemy gives away whats about to hit or in PvP I should have reserved some saving (shield/movement) ability to escape a sudden AoE spell.

Players who want training wheels in a game that promotes itself as "challenging", might just want to stick with FF or WoW where even high end raid bosses have indicators for EVERYTHING that the boss is about to do.

Tuezday wrote: »

2. In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies

The Blizzard-Spell of the mage and the Whirlwind of the Fighter are great examples for how a good AoE spell should look IMO. There are some "natural" indicators that mark the area of effect and those suffice.

Tuezday wrote: »

Friendly players should always be able to clearly see what you’re doing to help group play and even as a tool to help teach those in your party if you see them doing something sub-par with a skill, or where best for them to place a certain aoe, so very for friendly grouped players.

No. Just like like you need to learn the skills of your enemies, you need to learn the skills of your parties. And with them its even easier, you can just plan ahead or talk during the fight to do group combos. There is no need for more help for your allies.

Tuezday wrote: »

Enemy players again shouldn’t have many or any telegraphs to grow skill ceiling and allow players to have a reason to learn all the abilities natural setups from playing with them or through alts to learn what players might do in PvP without the telegraph help.

They get the same indicators that the allies get, they don't get acces the communication and information about which combos are being pulled off.

Tuezday wrote: »

4. Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?

No.

Tuezday wrote: »

5. Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!

Ashes of Creation Livestreams look pretty neat, the most recent livestream looked great, the open world PvP from the Node Wars livestream looked a bit chaotic but overall fine, what I liked is that there was no special treatment for anyone, skills were treated exactly like that: Skills.

There is no need for different treatment of when an enemy or ally uses a skill, battleground awareness includes recognizing who is firing what and putting training wheels on that process every time something is slightly different is counter productive to the goal of challenging the players.

ReLamas

AoE abilities are indeed central to MMO gameplay, and how they’re displayed can significantly impact both PvE and PvP experiences. I think the approach to AoE telegraphing should strike a balance between clarity for teammates and challenge for opponents.

For PvE, clear visual cues for AoE abilities are essential, especially in group settings. Being able to see where an ability will land allows players to coordinate effectively and avoid unnecessary damage. However, in PvP, reducing the visibility of enemy AoE markers can raise the skill ceiling, rewarding players who take the time to learn ability animations and timings. This approach enhances the tactical depth of encounters, making them more engaging and rewarding for skilled players.

Drawing from Guild Wars 2, their use of elemental combos within AoE fields is a great example of how clear and interactive AoE mechanics can add depth to combat. For instance, when a player lays down a fire field, another player can trigger it with a blast finisher to create powerful effects like Might. This system not only encourages teamwork but also adds layers of strategy that could greatly benefit Ashes of Creation.

Incorporating a similar system in Ashes of Creation would allow for both complexity and clarity in combat, enhancing both PvE coordination and PvP strategy. Balancing these aspects is crucial to ensure the game remains challenging and rewarding across all types of gameplay.

Smaashley

Why do you create another thread instead of replying on the official one ? Pure curiosity.

Tuezday

Purely by mistake thanks for bringing it up, also great comments above!

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