Quantity of Abilities
DerToastinator
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Greetings,
How many abilities do you want/need?
Let me elaborate:
In AoC we have the weapon attack, a block and a dodge roll baked into every character. This means 3 buttons are already allocated to specific tasks during combat.
This leaves us with less buttons on the keyboard that in WoW for example to key-bind abilities.
(Given that you are not a tank, you might unbind block to free up a space.)
We also have a sprint option that most likely takes up ctrl or shift. Cutting down 1/3rd of the usual hot-binds (example shift + 4)
The most comfortable to reach keys are… E, Q, R, F, C, V, X, Y, 1 to 5 (maby 6). Honorable mention to T, G and B, but B is for Bags change my mind
We have 13 confortable to reach keys and 3 are taken, leaving us with 10. Multiplied by 2 for the shift or ctrl keys makes 20 comfortably usable slots.
Ashes have stated that macros are not intended to be necessary to have a coherent rotation.
The weapon attack is supposed to be your filler ability, and it has benefits to finish a combo to get effects (as shown in the ranger update)
All this makes me think that the rotation and situational cooldowns in AoC should not be as convoluted and that less is more when it comes to abilities.
I think you should be able to decide what abilities fit your playstyle and only be able to choose or talent in a select number of abilities. This would cut down on rotation bloat, refine your character identity and lead to interesting choices along the way.
(Example Ranger: do I choose to specialize into barrage and be mobile while shooting, or choose to talent the stationary snipe for big dmg, but must have a snare in my kit to keep distance? Or try to have both but lack in another department)
I solemnly believe this would bring out YOUR identity.
It also ensures not every class will feel the same, because you cannot take everything and might need others to help elevate your weakspots, when facing tougher foes.
Less abilities also means that 1. your weapon specialisation tree with its combo system has time to shine and 2. every ability press is deliberate and has weight to it. No longer are you mindlessly pressing a rotation, you are choosing to use your CC or heal-cut. You will still have press on CD abilities, but maby you speced into a bleed and can proudly say you have 100% uptime on it on enemies whereas another player can’t, but he can bleed multiple enemies at once.
For those who say, but MMOs need many abilities to be interesting I say, we have seen so many interesting combat systems with way less. V-Rising (6), League (4 + summoners and items), Overwatch (3 + ult) those are the most prominent that come to mind.
And I don’t want AoC to have only 4 abilities per character!
I just want the experience to be streamlined by the talent choices the player makes.
I think a Player should realistically only have to use and spec into 12 abilities out of all the abilities he is presented. That’s enough for 2 rotational spells, an AoE, mobility, def CD, dmg amp spell, CC, interrupt, heal and an ultimate (like the bard and warrior had) throw in 2 buffs/utility and you are done.
That’s a fairly good distribution, and if you want to have more of something, you now have a choice to make.
There would have to be restrictions on how many of one you can take (CC-bot prevention).
Using less of the confortable to use keys opens them up for other things too, like C for Character window.
How many abilities do you want/need?
Let me elaborate:
In AoC we have the weapon attack, a block and a dodge roll baked into every character. This means 3 buttons are already allocated to specific tasks during combat.
This leaves us with less buttons on the keyboard that in WoW for example to key-bind abilities.
(Given that you are not a tank, you might unbind block to free up a space.)
We also have a sprint option that most likely takes up ctrl or shift. Cutting down 1/3rd of the usual hot-binds (example shift + 4)
The most comfortable to reach keys are… E, Q, R, F, C, V, X, Y, 1 to 5 (maby 6). Honorable mention to T, G and B, but B is for Bags change my mind
We have 13 confortable to reach keys and 3 are taken, leaving us with 10. Multiplied by 2 for the shift or ctrl keys makes 20 comfortably usable slots.
Ashes have stated that macros are not intended to be necessary to have a coherent rotation.
The weapon attack is supposed to be your filler ability, and it has benefits to finish a combo to get effects (as shown in the ranger update)
All this makes me think that the rotation and situational cooldowns in AoC should not be as convoluted and that less is more when it comes to abilities.
I think you should be able to decide what abilities fit your playstyle and only be able to choose or talent in a select number of abilities. This would cut down on rotation bloat, refine your character identity and lead to interesting choices along the way.
(Example Ranger: do I choose to specialize into barrage and be mobile while shooting, or choose to talent the stationary snipe for big dmg, but must have a snare in my kit to keep distance? Or try to have both but lack in another department)
I solemnly believe this would bring out YOUR identity.
It also ensures not every class will feel the same, because you cannot take everything and might need others to help elevate your weakspots, when facing tougher foes.
Less abilities also means that 1. your weapon specialisation tree with its combo system has time to shine and 2. every ability press is deliberate and has weight to it. No longer are you mindlessly pressing a rotation, you are choosing to use your CC or heal-cut. You will still have press on CD abilities, but maby you speced into a bleed and can proudly say you have 100% uptime on it on enemies whereas another player can’t, but he can bleed multiple enemies at once.
For those who say, but MMOs need many abilities to be interesting I say, we have seen so many interesting combat systems with way less. V-Rising (6), League (4 + summoners and items), Overwatch (3 + ult) those are the most prominent that come to mind.
And I don’t want AoC to have only 4 abilities per character!
I just want the experience to be streamlined by the talent choices the player makes.
I think a Player should realistically only have to use and spec into 12 abilities out of all the abilities he is presented. That’s enough for 2 rotational spells, an AoE, mobility, def CD, dmg amp spell, CC, interrupt, heal and an ultimate (like the bard and warrior had) throw in 2 buffs/utility and you are done.
That’s a fairly good distribution, and if you want to have more of something, you now have a choice to make.
There would have to be restrictions on how many of one you can take (CC-bot prevention).
Using less of the confortable to use keys opens them up for other things too, like C for Character window.
3
Comments
I'm fine with this much.
Given how much MMOs have advanced in their ability to situationally switch what a specific ability does when under a specific condition, 12 is fine if you don't count utility stuff (or don't add any). 15 is nice for Mages/Healers/Support and 'DPS who like having additional different damage abilities with different mana costs'.
Is this you 'noting that you disagree with the current plan' for 15-20 Actives with 2 hotbars?
Well, this has nothing to do with A1. This is all more recent knowledge from the showcases and ideas from other games.
I have a Gaming-Keyboard/pad and i still think its better to have less abilities to give a character identity and combat bloat. Like, you can have some consumables on bars, but realistically... how often do you press Ctrl +0 and then 5 followed by shift+8? its not gonna happen and its a cramp in the hand. also, you have an autoattack that rewards you for pressing it more than once. As far as we have seen, the autoattack gets disrupted by abilities. (look at ranger animations). It makes sense to have longer cooldowns so you can even utillize the weapon properties. There needs to be enough time for you to get that combo off between spells if you are not forced to break your combo by the enemy.
It is already designed to not work with 40 abilities, because then the autoattack would be redundant and i dont think that would be intended.
In so many games i look at my action bar and think to myself: Yea, im not even using half of these.
I must add, that i respect your opinion reguardless.
Im fine with 20 too, but i beleve with optimisation you can make room for those trinket actives or a usable item that you find yourself to incorperate in your battles often.
Im just a bit tired of having 40 abilities and then the items and racials on top. Again... half of those become redundant and that just feels bad in my opinion.
Id rather be the one guy in the group who speced into a mass dispell and have my moment to shine once in a while than having to remember i have that thing bound to shift + 84 and its collecting dust, because you have so many spells that get used more often.
if i had only that dispell, i would use it whenever i can.
I have used tool kits with 30+ skills and used not all of them but many. Its a good question. Im getting older. it my 50's now. I do plan to play a Bard and I wonder how well I will be able to weave like I did it EQ1 days. Still, I pulled away from games like BDO that had skills tied to letter keys for combos. I did not enjoy it. I know i sound like a jerk but I would rather the game have everyone forced to buy a MMO mouse if thats the problem.
From my experience in Guild Wars 2, a game that also emphasizes skill selection and tactical use, having a more streamlined set of abilities can lead to much deeper and more satisfying gameplay. In GW2, each profession has access to a limited number of skills at any given time, but the depth comes from how those abilities interact with each other and with the environment. The simplicity allows for more focus on strategy, positioning, and timing, rather than just juggling an extensive rotation of abilities.
For instance, in PvP, a well-coordinated team using a smaller but more specialized set of abilities can outmaneuver and outplay a larger, less organized group. This not only emphasizes individual player skill but also the importance of team synergy. Applying a similar philosophy to Ashes of Creation, where players have to make meaningful choices about their abilities, could lead to more unique and personalized playstyles, ensuring that each ability press truly counts.
Moreover, there's an additional layer to consider—preparation and practice. In games where a larger number of abilities are available, like in Ashes of Creation, the necessity for preparation, practice, and a deeper understanding of your class becomes even more critical. This complexity can reward the more dedicated players who invest the time to master their abilities and synergize with their group. This not only enhances the sense of achievement but also ensures that combat remains rewarding and challenging for all levels of play.
I fully support the idea of streamlining abilities through talent choices, allowing for specialization while still maintaining the identity of the class. The challenge will be in ensuring that these choices feel impactful and that the combat remains dynamic and engaging.
I like having a few spots for items and trinkets, which is why I never think about actually having 20.
I think even my FFXI Macro bars have some duplicates (10 per bar), at max level, on White Mage. I could probably find something to put there, in a game with no 'type to cast', though.
Also, lmk if you want 'more engagement' on this thread, and I'll tell my group members to pay more active attention to it, it seems like that kind of thread (technically just 'me saying this' does that, but your answer might be good to clarify if you want something beyond '4-6 people just saying the same thing').
You dont sound like a jerk.
I must admit that i dont know how many is to many spells. Id have to say 10 is propably too low, but 30 is too much for my taste.
I just want to voice my reasoning behind that thought.
Now we can only wish Intrepid predicts this and smartly overrides such keybinds with default left click action when you open your inventory to interact with your gear etc...
I just lifted this from the wiki:
* https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills
"The maximum number of skills a player can have on their action bar will be around 15-20.[22][23]
Each archetype will have roughly 35-40 skills to choose from on average.[24]"
15-20 is actually not that much for a lot of MMOs.
I wanted to show my idea but also know what the commulity thinks! You can share it if you want or just leave your opinion, both is fine for me!
I have been avoiding FFXI since it is too bombastic for my taste, so i dont have a great idea how it looks plays.
i appreciate your adition to the conversation though!
Like I mentioned I played an EQ1 Bard, you want a list of skills? Its the deepest I have played. I made what I called kits. Sets of skills for the job I was going to do. Solo, Dungeons, Raids, PvP etc. I never used all skills in any of the settings but I did use most of my skills. I get thats what your talking about with perp time.
Myself, I would rather the UI had presets you could setup. One for gear, one for skills and one for Augments. I would love to just push a button and what I setup with just be loaded for me. ESO had add on that did this and it was great. Also just for that one guy thats gonna reply you cant change some things but out of combat and and in town. I get that, I still would like the UI tools.
I just lifted this from the wiki:
* https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills
"The maximum number of skills a player can have on their action bar will be around 15-20.[22][23]
Each archetype will have roughly 35-40 skills to choose from on average.[24]"
15-20 is actually not that much for a lot of MMOs.
[/quote]
ooooh, so i misinterpreted the state of the talent trees. Because they only have a limited ammount of spells yet it looks like you spec into every spell. Therefore i thought you will end up with more at max.
I totally agree with the note of having preset options. If you for example have to go to the town to respec (wich is fine) you should be able to have presets! Then you can allow yourself to experiment and specialize.
ALSO! I hereby suggest a "training ground" in every town! A place where you can freely respec and test without paying or locking the spells in. Could even be instanced to prevent exploits.
If it's the number of keys one has easy access to use during game play, that's down the the personal preference for hardware of said person. I use a 20ish year old mechanical steelseries merc gamer keyboard on my gaming computer, not sure off the top of my head, I think something like 27 common game keys within easy reach not counting movement keys? I've seen people using gamer pads with more than that.
Having played ESO and GW2, that limit your number of abilities, I can only say that it's just not fun at all. I didn't like being limited by the game in that way, at all. You end up having 2-3 main abilities that you spam all the time, with the rest just acting as additional stuff you throw in between depending on situation.
I dislike spamming the same 3 abilities all the time, with others being used "in-between" or situationally.
Yes, there needs to be a choice presented, where you have to pick which abilities you want to use, but it shouldn't be as limiting, or rather, it should give you a lot of options to choose from. Your skill tree should have paths presented to you, where you could go down a certain path, and have certain abilities with certain style of play in mind. You can always select some other abilities from other paths, but you can only fully go down one or two paths, meaning you cannot just select all the abilities you want.
Obviously this might not be how Intrepid is going to design the skill tree, so it remains to be seen, however I think 15-20 would be a good number of class abilities on your skill bar, with basically 30-40 to choose from. Remember, you will also have potions/food, other buffs, maybe even weapon skills as well on your hotbar.
Comparing MMORPGs combat system with games that are not in the same genre is just not a good comparison, in this case.
First, those are different types of games. Second, the combat system is completely different.
Using LoL as an example, they have over 100 champions with different abilities, they can get away with having only 4 champ abilities, because if you don't like one kit, you can play another. Matches are short, you won't have the exact same build every time, tactics are different, combat is different, etc.
In MMORPGs, and Ashes specifically, your character is more permanent, it's harder to re-roll, so you need choices, and you need a choice of abilities to not make it boring.
Imagine playing one champion for 500h+ in League, without playing anything else. I know such people exist, but they're a very small portion of the playerbase. In MMORPGs, it's a regular occurrence, where you just play one class for hundreds, if not thousands of hours.
It's just shoehorning and limiting what you can and cannot do. You cannot simply design every class to have the same template abilities you mentioned (2 rotational spells, an AoE, mobility, def CD, dmg amp spell, CC, interrupt, heal and an ultimate (like the bard and warrior had) throw in 2 buffs/utility and you are done.) because classes will just not work in that way, neither will the combat. Some builds/specs will focus on more AoEs, some on more cc, some on more heals, more buffs, or debuffs. They need something that will make them unique, rather than making every class have the same type of abilities.
Archeage I think had 20 class abilities, with the rest of the skillbar being filled with random stuff like mounts, gliders, potions, food, items, etc. - perfectly good.
WoW is the only game I can think of where you have too many abilities on your bar.
Going left to right, and top to bottom.
In Occultism tree, you have your 1. Spammable ability, 2. & 3. your main combo of 2 abilities that also cc, 4. your additional damage + slow (+combo proc), 5. cc immunity + melee dmg reflect, 6. AOE CC, 7. buff, 8. channeled debuff/dmg.
In Defense tree, you have 9. melee cc, 10. buff, 11. heal, 12. def buff, 13. imprison/cage, 14. immunity, 15. cc/utility.
In Auramancy, 16. speed boost in a path, 17. implosion aka pull, 18. teleport, 19. anti cc, 20. anti cc.
You have several cc effects, you have several buffs, you have several anti cc spells. It's all needed, it makes the gameplay more interesting, having to use the right ability at the right time. It's a way more in depth class, than anything else that's going to only use 12 abilities.
12 is not enough in a game with a lot of CC 'bloat' since you need more buttons for extra CC and CC breaks, so my answer is only relative to my preferred game type where there isn't as much CC or where only certain classes have considerable amounts of it and then have less other abilities.
Looking it up... classes with have 20 abilities thats not allot.
Keep in mind that Active Skills can have Augments applied to them.
There are also Weapon Skills.
(And Passive Skills)
How many hotbars will we have? Do you know?
i missinterpreted the showcased talent trees/hotbars. i have already acnowleged that, but im still intrested in the comunitys thoughts!
i see you. it can be boring. Although i think its more often that the enemy design is so boring that you dont have anything to do but press your rotation in the right order to stay engaged. I think the enemies play a big roll in making the combat engaging and then you have to see how many or how less diffrent abilities the player can handle without beeing overwelmed or bored.
Im absolutely with you on the talent tree pathing.
However i think they should watch out not to hide other abilities behind one path. I think it just feels bad if you dont like the path but love the ability.
i wasnt comparing them, i was showing of that you can have engaging combat systems with few abilities. I even acknowleged that 4 ablities wouldnt work at all for an mmo^^ V- Rising was my first example and it is very much comparable with an MMO. Yet again, they have very engaging enemy types!
If you want an MMO specific example... Albion Online has 9 Abilities i think and 10k players on the steam servers. It cant be that boring. What im trying to say is, engagement has more to it than more abilityes = less boredom because more to press. Its a tapestry of enemy and ability design. sure, throwing a fireball 20 times a minute just to do dmg is boring. having a fireball every 10 sec that pushes an enemy away from the blast is intresting!
I KNOW you cant fully translate such concepts from other games. That doesnt mean we cant learn from them.
Im not advocating for the template... " if you want to have more of something, you now have a choice to make" is me saying that if you want to be better at AoE you now have to choose if you dont want to have a Heal, Buff, ect. i was davocating vor diversity while giving you the option to be a suboptimal allrounder if you choose to talent that way. Beeing a jack of al traits should come at the cost of power in my opinion.
Thank you for your view on the matter. It is very nice to see you care about it as i do!
Exactly.
But also at the same time, 15 would be my bottom limit in that case.
It's funny, because I had the exact opposite feeling, where it wasn't as satisfying and fun to play, due to being limited in your choice of abilities (especially when they're bound to the weapon selection). I always felt like I needed a few more abilities on my bar. (That could also be due to weapon swap mechanic, ESO had the same problem for me). I'd much rather have all abilities visible and available, rather than swapping through different weapons/skill bars.
With an open-world PvP game like Ashes will be, strategy, positioning, and timing will absolutely play a key part, and you won't just be juggling your abilities like a rotation in PvE raids.
Yep, I guess I'll have to further explain my point later when I get home.
Even Albion Online with 9 abilities is not enough for me. It's not that it's boring, LoL isn't boring with 4 abilities, but it's something that I dislike, and I'll just have to think about it for a little bit to tell you what that exactly is.
And I do agree with your point about engagement and mob design having an impact on this.
We absolutely can learn from other games, LoL is actually great as an example of how to design certain abilities, focused around a certain theme. Also it's a good example for ability design in general, in terms of their mechanics.
Im realy thankfull for your imputs guys!
Im definitely warming up to the 20 abilities of AoC.
However i think the Block should be an ability and not a fixed hotkey. I dont know what a block exactly does, but i dont see a ranged dps using it very often
Im curious! If i dont reply timely, im likely sleeping. Its getting late here.
Hope you get home safely!
It absolutely is fun to talk about everything! At this stage of development, there are a lot of possibilities, a lot of stuff to talk about and theorize about.
Regarding the Albion Online example, there are a few issues with having only 9 abilities.
To me, Albion actually felt more like a MOBA, especially when playing arena PvP.
The main thing is always preference, and I'm just going to try explain why I don't prefer that over other MMOs.
You have 9 abilities, meaning you have to fit certain things into your class kit.
By having to fit things in, it means you're missing out on something that maybe looks nice, or something that feels good to use.
What you will fit in there depends on your class and role, but it always boils down to a similar choice, especially in PvP. Damage-CC-Debuffs-Buffs-Heal-Mobility / Some choices will always be "META"
You always want damage, you want cc because PvP, you could maybe do with some debuffs, buffs to you so you deal more damage, or buffs to your defense, maybe a heal, and you need mobility for PvP.
Most classes need the following things, meaning there's no room for variety. Which brings me to my next point.
Simply having 1-2 ccs, 2-3 damage abilities, 1-2 buffs, 1-2 debuffs, 1-2 mobility skills is not enough variety for me in MMORPGs. I want at least 4-5 different ways to deal damage, whether it's single target, AoE, etc. on top of that, I want to have situational abilities, cc, cc breaks, maybe mobility, defensive and offensive buffs. I want more situational abilities, and more choices. I want those options to be right there on my skill bar, available to be used at (almost) any time. I want my abilities to interact with one another.
In example with Albion, there are no clear classes, there might be different roles, but I'd imagine most builds will go for the things I've mentioned in my previous point, meaning the variety between each class is not great. They all end up doing the same thing in PvP, just a bit differently.
I actually think GW2 also suffered a lot from this, where variety between each class was not the best, due to classes being homogenized a lot. especially in the last few years. Every class can do everything, the only difference are the mechanics and visuals. Obviously in GW2 it was not as bad, because it at least allows you to select more than 9 abilities.
Ability design itself is another issue, which also is tied with variety. With more abilities to select, you have different kind of abilities that you can use. As a Frost Mage, I might have an ice comet that just drops from the sky onto enemies, I might have an point-blank AoE freeze around my character, I might have a spammable attack with icicles, I might have a regular frost bolt, I might have a cone frost attack, I might have a blizzard-like ability I can place on the ground - all in the same kit.
With this much choice, you get to play with your abilities. My PB AoE freezes stuff around me, my spammable attack applies chill, which after 10 stacks turns into a freeze, my cone frost attack might apply a debuff, and my frost bolt might pop that debuff for extra damage. My Blizzard can act as an area denial tool, or it can be used on groups of enemies to slow and damage them over time while they stand inside.
It makes for a much more interesting way to interact with abilities, and it makes it possible for abilities to interact with one another.
On top of all of that, you have your Shell that gives magic protection to you, you have your blink for mobility, you have various buffs and debuffs, that further enhance your playstyle, your class identity and theme.
At the same time, you could design many different Frost abilities, so that you have a choice on what type of a Frost mage you want to be, close range, AoE, cc focused, long range, etc. - so you can select your abilities accordingly.
Now obviously in Ashes, the mage seems to be focused around different elements at the same time, and I think there will be a benefit to selecting multiple elements at the same time, so even then, there could be many synergies between frost and fire for example.
To take advantage of such design and such depth, you need more active abilities that you can use.
15 active abilities in this case would be fine I think. Plenty of space for utility, heals, buffs, debuffs on top of your main class abilities.
But, it can also be overdone, and the best example is WoW. Having what, 30? abilities on your bar is too much and it just feels like bloat, it could be simplified a bit definitely.
It might be because I'm looking for something different in MMORPGs, than in other games like MOBAs. I hope I've explained my point of view, and why I prefer having more abilities, and why having less feels limiting.
Oh god no, not this debate again.
The skill comes from knowing when to use which ability, it comes from knowledge of your class, and how to play it, it comes from knowing how to play against other classes, it comes from timing your abilities, movement, positioning, reacting to what enemy is doing.
And since this game will focus heavily on group PvP, it also focuses on how well you can follow the commands, on how good your positioning is when you are found surrounded by 50 enemy players, etc.
Just because you don't have to aim your abilities, doesn't mean it doesn't require any skill.
I think that you can probably make a reasonable game with 20 hotbar slots, 12-15 of which are commonly used. Realistically this is a question of what type of game you're going to make and how you're going to structure your combat and character growth.
As you mentioned, there are solid games with Basic+3+Ult. I don't know of any Basic+3+Ult MMOs however, and I feel like a MMO absolutely needs more than this simply because they want to vary the combat experience through diverse bosses and experiences in PvE. MOBAs and Battle Royales specifically do not do this. They get their variation from PvP tactics, dynamic map and positional interactions, and "select and adapt your build over the course of the match" strategy. MMOs aim to provide many thousands of distinct bosses, which innately requires a broader set of abilities for both enemies, and the players who wish to confront them. It's a different design goal with a different intended challenge type and balance structure. I do love me some Predecessor, but it wouldn't make for a good MMO with a long lifespan worth of PvE content, and even with its PvP aspects, in its vision as a PvX MMO, Ashes does still have to care about keeping up the other half.
First of all, you get to triple it. Ctrl+? and Shift+? both, so your 13 keys are 39 before you go reserving those 3 you mentioned. I'd like to add to this consideration that you also get 7-9, 0, -, and =, (plus their Ctrl and Shift variants) for lesser used and non-timing-critical abilities. This means that while you may only have 36 keybinds available for quick-action things, you can still bind another 18 longer duration buffs, rare cleanses, items, UI windows, or other interactions indicated by your game.
At that point you can have 4 full hotbars, with at least 30 "quick-reaction" abilities, effortlessly. Key bindings are not the constraint. The player experience you want, and the overall structure of your combat design are what dictate your ability pool, and how many abilities you allow, and expect/require your players to take.
This is a much better reason to have fewer abilities available to players, one that I can agree with, and one that I think we'll get. Steven has said repeatedly that you will not be able to take all abilities your class offers. He has spoken as well about the decision to go 'wide' or 'deep' with your skill tree, such that even choosing to buy more abilities has a meaningful tradeoff in terms of their power.
But even this doesn't answer the question of how many hotbar slots a player should tend to have. That can only be decided by the type, level, and variety of tactical complexity you choose for your combat design, and a developer has a large degree of freedom to tune those various aspects against each other to produce the experience they want.
I would like to see meaningful choice in weapon specialization, but at the end of the day, the basic attack combo sequence you spec into, the proc types, the durations, etc, still only amount to 1-2 abilities worth of tactical complexity and decision making. You get to decide "what target needs my damage?", "what target needs my debuff?", and "is my debuff more valuable on that target than something else I could be doing?" (i.e. "do I finish my combo?"). That's more or less it. "Who do I hit?" and "Do I finish my combo chain to get the proc, right now, instead of doing something else?".
The main way that weapon specialization that relates to abilities is "Is it ever worth hitting something with my weapon at all?".
You should always have a couple of abilities that are better than your basic attack combo (and its proc) in most any given situation, but those will cost "mana" and go on cooldown. Unless the devs fall into the "noob trap" of giving everyone tons of damage abilities without proper costs, such that using them all the time is a good idea, this also isn't what determines how many hotbar slots a given player should have.
That sounds like a pretty reasonable hotbar for a Fighter. It probably isn't remotely enough for an effective Bard.
For a Fighter, "having options" is about having the ability to respond to, and create, situations on the field, through the judicious use and timing of... as you say: movement, CC, damage, and AoE, a bit of interrupt and maybe some recovery. For them, that hotbar is a pretty good coverage of their required options, without too much duplication or excess.
For a Bard, "having options" means something completely different. Having options, for a Bard, is not about using them all, or even most of them. We need to have abilities that cover a wide range of situations, including situations that we will not encounter today. While a fighter may be able to use similar tools in a wide variety of situations, a Bard will need perhaps the same amount of buffs, but different buffs, in any given content. When one party, or one calls for a Health Regeneration buff, another party, or another situation may require Mana Regeneration. Where one situation requires Defense, another might require Movement Speed.
For a Fighter, "having options" is about what they will use in the moment to moment tactics of a situation. For a Bard, "having options" is about the ability to change their (and their party's) approach to a situation by choosing to use a completely different set of abilities than they would use in a different scenario. I will only be using perhaps 8-12 abilities at a time, but if I don't have have the other 8-12 (or even 15-20 depending on the design), that means that I can't do my job if the situation changes, and sooner or later, it will.
While a PvE only game can get around this by having a Bard re-shuffle their hotbar before any given encounter based on what they know to expect, this would be cumbersome, and it becomes outright impossible in a PvX game. When PvP begins, the situation that your party faces changes completely, and so too do the flow, strategy, tactics, and needs of your group. When PvE becomes PvX (or when you defeat the invaders and your PvX becomes PvE once more), I, as a Bard, need to be able to completely change my approach, and fast. I can't do that without having my options available.
While there will be strong spec-based identity differences, both between Support and Debuff focused Bards (an already slightly contentious topic in the feedback threads), and in terms of which buffs or debuffs any given bard chooses to take (and whether they spec into Weak AoE or Strong Single-Target), most if not all bards will need to have a variety of options available to them.
If we don't have that, then combat will end up being very flat (so that we can handle all its variety in a small ability set), or Bard will end up being frustrating and ineffective (due to our inability to adapt in the way that our Archetype (in the original sense of the word) demands).
I believe that something like Bucky showed us in the Bard Preview stream will end up being correct for Ashes of Creation, with something like 22 abilities (before Basic/Dodge/Block/Sprint/etc) for a mid-level Bard. (See screenshot.)
Bucky's hotbar from the Bard Showcase:
This also lines up reasonably well with the roughly 25 unique songs at level 50 (excluding Elemental Defense, Elemental Weaken, and lower-level duplicates) that I'm used to from Final Fantasy XI (not FF14).
I think Ashes is right in line with where they should be in terms of Bard design, and the variation and ability choice in the skill tree. We'll surely see more Bard abilities than they've shown off (they even told us as much in the stream), but I do not expect Bucky's design to end up either too small and limited or too overwhelming or bloated. They're in just about the right place (both in spec choices, and hotbar) for a mid-level Bard, and I have no doubt that Bucky will give us a high-level Bard of the same quality.
But one part of doing that will be having significantly more than 12 abilities in our hotbar. Even before Basic/Block/Dodge/Sprint.
Bind S and F to strafe. Use the mouse to run. Your options are now; Q, A, Z, X, C, D, E, W, R, T, G, B, V, and 1-6
19 keys total.
And B is for heal.
The amount of abilities should be based on the class you're playing more then anything. Look at the difference wow has between the classes. At level 30 Shamans have like 35 abilities, Rouges have like 5 at the same level.