How Multi-Classing Should Work in AOC

Hey All,

Today ill be sharing my thoughts on how I think Multi-Classing should work in respect to talent trees and abilities, for the purpose of todays post I will be using arbitrary numbers and references to other MMO's to express my ideas.

So lets get right into it, lets say you have a talent tree with multiple tiers of talents, each tier unlocking by spending points in previous talents in the tree. My idea stems from the idea that lets say at max level you have X amount of point to allocate in your main talent tree, for clarity sake, lets say at max level you have 60 Talent points to spend total regardless of class. Lets say for this example we pick Mage as our class.

So we have picked Mage and now we start leveling, lets say at level 20 we get to make another decision, we either pick another class to sub-spec into and create one of the 56 different combinations of mixed classes or pick our same class again to make one of the 8 "pure" classes meaning they have selected Mage - Mage. For the first 40 levels we will gain 1 talent point per level and the last 10 levels we gain 2 talent point per level. People who pick a "pure" class will be able to spend all 60 talent points on the main "mage" talent tree and unlock a new final tier only meant for "pure" classes, possibly some ultimate abilities to choose from or a meaningful passive that will make a "pure" class stand out. While people who pick a mixed class like Mage - Cleric will get to spend 50 talent points on their main tree and 10 points on a new small and unique tree depending on what class is chosen as a multiclass attached to their main. A person who selects Mage - Cleric will have a different "sub-tree" than someone who selects Bard-Cleric to keep classes unique and meaningful but relatively easy to balance due to the tree being smaller and more class focused. For example look at the size of the "Hero talent tree" from the new WoW expansion The War Within. A tree that size where 10 points can make a difference and possibly have a few different choices will encourage different builds and lots of choices without being a nightmare for balancing.

Let me know what everyone thinks and would love to hear other opinions!

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Azherae

This would make Ashes more familiar to WoW players, but isn't the direction they seem to be aiming for.

You might get something like it, based on how the skilltrees are now, but it would be more flexible than this method.

Lodrig

I've been thinking that augmentation will work similar to this for a while now.

Upon picking the secondary archetype you get a 'second tree' that is distinct for your class combo (even for the double down classes so 64 total trees), but which otherwise works very similar too the primary tee and is filled with 'passive' nodes which modify the abilities of the primary tree.

Intrepid has been using trees like structurs for progression of primary archetype AND weapon skills so it seems like a straitforward for both them and the player to stick with what is working and not reinvent the wheel. And it has the advantage of being flexible and extendible in the long term (trees can expand horizontaly with virtually no friction), while being balance able in the short term and provide the greatest chance for class uniqueness. As few as 10 nodes and thus ~700 total nodes can do a huge amount if thoughtfully designed.

Kilion

Do we actually have any conclusive information on how skill augmentation will work in regards to the secondary archetype?

So far I just thought we would have a skill tree that contains all active skills, that we can choose to ignore or unlock, with an additional augment slot attached to that skill, that would become accessible by 1) unlocking the active skill and 2) being LV 25 or above, plus a series of other skill options to modify the basic active skill (as seen in the Fighter Showcase).

As for making a secondary, small skill tree. Kinda reminds me of Cyberpunks Relic Skill Tree. I wasn't a huge fan of that and after a bit of thinking I guess its because I like to have as much of the core gameplay modifying elements in one place as possible, if only for the convenience of me being able to just have it all on the screen at the same time and better decide what works best together with another skill modification and augmentation. I guess same could apply in the development process for Intrepid, but I'm no game designer so what the hell do I know.

What I can say for sure however is that there don't seem to be any plans to come up with completely new skills due to secondary archetype selection. At best, some of the skills might be augmented in a way that they feel almost like new skills. And for me personally thats enough.
But I'm afraid the entire debate about proper augmentation will not progress much until we reach Phase 3 in 2025 because as of now the first tests to augmentation will be by that time. So for now I am not very invested beyond maybe some theorycrafting.

Apok

@Kilion I don't think they know what they want to do with second archetypes yet. they have mentioned flavor and that's about it. It's my assumption they are wanting to iron out 1st archetypes and basic skills first before rolling out anything for second archetypes.

I feel like tackling both at the same type is a recipe for disaster. balance and flush out the first archetypes then go from there.

Kilion

Apok wrote: »

@Kilion I don't think they know what they want to do with second archetypes yet. they have mentioned flavor and that's about it. It's my assumption they are wanting to iron out 1st archetypes and basic skills first before rolling out anything for second archetypes.

I feel like tackling both at the same type is a recipe for disaster. balance and flush out the first archetypes then go from there.

100% they should finish the walls before putting on the roof^^

As for the augment system, this is just me speculating, I think the concept for that already exists as in what the system is supposed to do, while the details which puzzle pieces are supposed to be merged aren't.
As to flavor VS big changes - again me speculating - I think we will see both. Some augments will change skills more than others and there is no reason i can think of that would justify expecting all augments to be equally ground breaking.

Dygz

Apok wrote: »

@Kilion I don't think they know what they want to do with second archetypes yet. they have mentioned flavor and that's about it. It's my assumption they are wanting to iron out 1st archetypes and basic skills first before rolling out anything for second archetypes.

I feel like tackling both at the same type is a recipe for disaster. balance and flush out the first archetypes then go from there.

The devs know that each Secondary Archetype (which becomes available at Level 25) has 4 Schools of Augments. Augments are less powerful than Active Skills.
I'm pretty sure the Primary Archetype continues to gain Active Skills from Level 25- 50.

But, yes, you have to first solidfy what the Active Skills are before putting a ton of focus on devleoping the details for Augments which will modify those Active Skills.

Child Item