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Please avoid Monetization at all costs and watch dup bugs/money bugs.

So, yes, I searched and saw the other posts about monetization. I don't think this was covered as well as it should have been from the feedback side of things.

I understand that MMORPGs, especially live service ones are very expensive to make and maintain. Got it. However, it is my personal opinion that any form of monetization really ruins the experience for me personally. If you give me a few minutes, I'll explain it in thorough detail. I know many others in the community feel the same way. Don't worry, I have viable alternatives.

For me I enjoy the immersion of the game, its story line, I like to check out into an alternate reality. If every time I turn a corner in said game/world there is something, some mechanic or design trying to get at my real-life money, it immediately breaks the immersion for me. I don't know about everyone else, but I enjoy video games because they give me a break from reality. Don't get me wrong, I am not poor, I am a college educated professional in a career, I have the money to engage in things like this, but it kills the experience for me. Now some games do a good job of not putting it in your face all the time, and that is good. It does help with this issue, but it doesn't prevent it. If you never open the shop, it doesn't affect you right? Wrong! If someone goes to the shop and buys a cosmetic and they, have it at a much lower level than me, but I haven't put in all the hours to grind to get it, it immediately kills that items value to me, and takes all my desire for that item away, you know if it can just be bought, why waste the effort. Visual progression based off of level and achieved milestones is huge to this genre. Making it so that someone can just buy it, yes helps the developers monetarily, but hurts the community as a whole. It breaks immersion and fosters an environment with less player-to-player group, mutual objectives, etc. This will kill a game and it's community very rapidly and has a history of doing just that.

It is even worse if you give players the ability to buy things that increase their power or make achieving things, especially levels easier (Or currency). That is just straight up pay to win and will kill the community much faster than just buy cosmetics.

I think you should do a box sell price for initial access but make it reasonable. You'll make a killing if it is reasonable as millions upon millions will buy the game. Make that box come with a month or two of "free" subscription (built into the box price) so players can try the game, and then make it strictly subscription based from that point on. I see people mentioning 15$ USD per month is where it is currently set. I believe if you brought that up to 20$ (Which when factoring in inflation is about what WoW launched at) that plus the box fee will more than pay for the games initial development and will provide a steady stream of income. Almost like this is a proven model that has worked before. And leave all the extra things that monetization can bring alone. Your community is more likely to enjoy it and more importantly more likely to stay.

Lastly a great deal of us had high hopes for New World, and there absolutely are great things about that game still. However, it was just a few months after launch that bugs broke the games economy and it still hasn't recovered, and that is the backbone of that game, the economy. Please during Alpha encourage your testers to "Break" the game and find and flesh out all these flaws before beta, but of course still continue the same mantra into the Beta. Duplication bugs absolutely destroyed New World and I don't think the Amazon staff saw it coming. I think it blind-sided them.

This is earnest feedback from just myself, and I do intend to purchase and play the game.

Comments

  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 25
    There will be no pay-to-win (P2W) in Ashes, Jamesson … so you can breathe a little easier there.

    The vast majority of items in the cash shop are cosmetic and will have similar in-game achievables to reduce exclusivity.

    However, asking other players to not wear their cosmetics they earned (or bought) because of your “immersion” or "visual progression" … that’s been brought up in quite a few threads already.

    The whole purpose of cosmetics is for players to show off their look. Taking that away from them devalues the achievement or purchase.

    Box cost is pretty non-negotiable ... as the devs seem firm on the subscription model being the access mechanism for the game.

    On the plus side, yes, totally agree that us Alpha 2 testers will do what we can to make it a great game to play for everyone.
  • JamessonJamesson Member, Alpha Two
    However, asking other players to not wear their cosmetics they earned (or bought) because of your “immersion” or "visual progression" … that’s been brought up in quite a few threads already.

    That is a difference of opinion, and if it has been brought up multiple times, then that means that I am not the only person that believes this. I am sure there are things that folks have already earned, and I am not talking to that end, that is said and done. However, I don't think it should be a theme that permeates the game. It is ok to disagree, but I am apparently not the only one that thinks this, and it in my opinion needs to be addressed.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    if they dont monetize the game, how are they going to make money to keep it up and running?
  • SyblitrhSyblitrh Member
    edited September 25
    Well if they get 1 million active subscribers like Mr.Steven said, that's like 15 million$ each month for the studio. Then 2-5 mil$ if they make 3+ new skins each month + other small quality of life microtransactions which are non p2w. Considering they have 200 employees, a big chunk will go to them, taxes and servers cost. I guess there will be some revenue after all.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Assuming for the moment that not only the technology for server mesh but also security, anti cheat and RMT tracking will be no issue for the game, I think monetization is already coming in from a different side where I assume there will be more discussions in the future.

    And that is when big streamers ("big" meaning with enough active fans playing with them so probably beginning in the 2k player range) get on a server. I have been vocal about my scepticism regarding this, I think there should be an option for player to avoid servers where people who play the game for monetary reasons, so I won't bore you with that.

    What I am getting at here is: Community Events organised with prizes to do stuff in game... could be considered provision of outside monetary gains for ingame activity (just as streaming itself).

    I'm not sure what Intrepids stance is on the matter, whether they even have a stance about this. But so far this seems to me like the most direct way monetization will be present in the game.
    Besides cosmetic but that clearly doesn't meet Intrepids criteria for illegal monetization XD
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Jamesson wrote: »
    Visual progression based off of level and achieved milestones is huge to this genre.
    This seems to be the base of your concern.

    It is a notion I entirely disagree with.

    Some people consider visual progression to be important, other people realize that visual progression is inherently subjective, and so can never be a means of progression.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    Hopefully (which is not a plan), they will have a deep understanding of their own system and rapidly correct the bugs that will appear, especially the dup bugs that multiply materials, gold & equipment before it reaches the point where some system has to be shut down entirely for months at a time (I'm staring at you, NW).
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 25
    Jamesson wrote: »
    It is ok to disagree, but I am apparently not the only one that thinks this, and it in my opinion needs to be addressed.

    There are others, yes, that share your opinion … that’s why those other discussion threads exist.

    But, it’s not the opinion of the majority of players. Nor is Intrepid likely to change the payment model.

    The cash shop in modern MMOs is a concept that won’t be going away anytime soon. We can be thankful that there’s no P2W.
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 26
    Jamesson wrote: »
    This is earnest feedback from just myself, and I do intend to purchase and play the game.
    I might be wrong, but I think you worry about something that may not, and most likely, will not actually be a problem. For 3 main reasons:

    1.
    There will be no pay-to-win (P2W) in Ashes, Jamesson … so you can breathe a little easier there.

    2. I recommend you to read this page on Wiki about cosmetics: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics

    Some key points:
    > There are no pay-to-win gameplay benefits from any purchasable items. Skins are cosmetic items that do not grant the user any benefit.Skins are only be able to be applied to things that have already been earned, crafted or found within Ashes of Creation.
    > Equitable cosmetics, both from a quantity and quality standpoint, are achievable through in-game means. Cosmetics achievable in-game will be on-par, and in the case of legendary skins, even more elaborate than shop items.
    > There will be legendary cosmetics that are only achievable in-game that will never be offered in the cosmetic shop.
    > The game will not have steampunk elements.


    3.
    Depraved wrote: »
    if they dont monetize the game, how are they going to make money to keep it up and running?
    I mean, if the game ends up being good, I don't mind paying $50/month as a subscription without them selling cosmetics. But the reality is that many people will rightfully consider it too expensive.
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • ZehlanZehlan Member, Alpha Two
    I think what is being missed here is the cosmetic shop is more than just making cash for intrepid someone has to be paid to make these cosmetics which cost the company money! By having a cosmetic shop we generate income so they can create items for the game not just for the item shop.

    So the next time you see some weirdo riding around on a my little pony unicorn with a rainbow mane and tail who paid 50 USD for it don't shun them, stop and thank them because they are doing more to help the progress of the game then you probably are! As far as immersion goes if you don't like his pony you can kill him and it but make sure you still express your gratitude you don't want to look like you are rude.
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I think what is being missed here is the cosmetic shop is more than just making cash for intrepid someone has to be paid to make these cosmetics which cost the company money! By having a cosmetic shop we generate income so they can create items for the game not just for the item shop.

    So the next time you see some weirdo riding around on a my little pony unicorn with a rainbow mane and tail who paid 50 USD for it don't shun them, stop and thank them because they are doing more to help the progress of the game then you probably are! As far as immersion goes if you don't like his pony you can kill him and it but make sure you still express your gratitude you don't want to look like you are rude.
    That's a good point actually. Supporting the game you like and getting something in return (something that doesn't give you any advantage) is a good option to have
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I think what is being missed here is the cosmetic shop is more than just making cash for intrepid someone has to be paid to make these cosmetics which cost the company money! By having a cosmetic shop we generate income so they can create items for the game not just for the item shop.

    So the next time you see some weirdo riding around on a my little pony unicorn with a rainbow mane and tail who paid 50 USD for it don't shun them, stop and thank them because they are doing more to help the progress of the game then you probably are! As far as immersion goes if you don't like his pony you can kill him and it but make sure you still express your gratitude you don't want to look like you are rude.

    If they crank out a sparkling rainbow-farting unicorn then that's a sign all care for immersion is gone and they're dying for any scraps of cash

    li3po5z59tdj.jpeg
  • ZehlanZehlan Member, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I think what is being missed here is the cosmetic shop is more than just making cash for intrepid someone has to be paid to make these cosmetics which cost the company money! By having a cosmetic shop we generate income so they can create items for the game not just for the item shop.

    So the next time you see some weirdo riding around on a my little pony unicorn with a rainbow mane and tail who paid 50 USD for it don't shun them, stop and thank them because they are doing more to help the progress of the game then you probably are! As far as immersion goes if you don't like his pony you can kill him and it but make sure you still express your gratitude you don't want to look like you are rude.

    If they crank out a sparkling rainbow-farting unicorn then that's a sign all care for immersion is gone and they're dying for any scraps of cash

    li3po5z59tdj.jpeg

    What about a albino unicorn that lost his horn for bad behavior?

    https://youtube.com/shorts/RKUvE4jg1Vs?si=W6BGLc8-KdPFbQNI
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Zehlan wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I think what is being missed here is the cosmetic shop is more than just making cash for intrepid someone has to be paid to make these cosmetics which cost the company money! By having a cosmetic shop we generate income so they can create items for the game not just for the item shop.

    So the next time you see some weirdo riding around on a my little pony unicorn with a rainbow mane and tail who paid 50 USD for it don't shun them, stop and thank them because they are doing more to help the progress of the game then you probably are! As far as immersion goes if you don't like his pony you can kill him and it but make sure you still express your gratitude you don't want to look like you are rude.

    If they crank out a sparkling rainbow-farting unicorn then that's a sign all care for immersion is gone and they're dying for any scraps of cash

    li3po5z59tdj.jpeg

    What about a albino unicorn that lost his horn for bad behavior?

    https://youtube.com/shorts/RKUvE4jg1Vs?si=W6BGLc8-KdPFbQNI

    As long as it's not sparkling and farting rainbow
  • AgripinensiaAgripinensia Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    if they dont monetize the game, how are they going to make money to keep it up and running?

    Did you even read anyting besides the title?
    NO ONE minds monetizing the game.
    It just shouldn't be F2P+P2W.

    I am also against cosmetics and would rather pay $30 instead of $15 a month to not have those in the game.
    But at the end, its fineish the way they are doing it.

    And NO, it is not necessary to pay for infrastructure/etc. - That is what the monthly fee is for.
    BUT I agree with ppl that cosmetics as long as they fit the game are acceptable. P2W will always make me quit after a while (usually 1-2 weeks - not worth paying $1000+ to get accepted into groups for mediocre endgame)
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Syblitrh wrote: »
    Well if they get 1 million active subscribers like Mr.Steven said, that's like 15 million$ each month for the studio. Then 2-5 mil$ if they make 3+ new skins each month + other small quality of life microtransactions which are non p2w. Considering they have 200 employees, a big chunk will go to them, taxes and servers cost. I guess there will be some revenue after all.

    but that's monetization xD
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    if they dont monetize the game, how are they going to make money to keep it up and running?

    Did you even read anyting besides the title?
    NO ONE minds monetizing the game.
    It just shouldn't be F2P+P2W.

    I am also against cosmetics and would rather pay $30 instead of $15 a month to not have those in the game.
    But at the end, its fineish the way they are doing it.

    And NO, it is not necessary to pay for infrastructure/etc. - That is what the monthly fee is for.
    BUT I agree with ppl that cosmetics as long as they fit the game are acceptable. P2W will always make me quit after a while (usually 1-2 weeks - not worth paying $1000+ to get accepted into groups for mediocre endgame)

    yes, but the title is dumb. the game needs to be monetized.

    also, steven has said for many many years there wont be p2w or pay for convenience. this is redundant.
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