*My thoughts on Ashes CC in the *far* future* (not alpha)
ShadowGarden
Member
(Sorry it's long but wanted to cover all my thoughts since this is important to me.)
CC is needed in MMO action bar combat, 7 button rotation spin just healing vs DPS is not fun, every class should have CC, some should have less, some should have more. That's my general opinion.
Physical CC - Fighter, Tank, Rogue, Ranger
Magical CC - Mage, Summoner, Cleric, Bard
Dispels - Cleric, Bard (Does not effect physical CC abilities, other advantages given to magic based classes for not having the hard lockout physical CC)
Cure All Potion (Trinket) - Personal item it should be 1.5 min CD for a little change up from other MMOs, I think it's necessary. Removes all CC.
Diminishing Returns:
I think there should be DR categories and function similar to WOWs diminishing returns with some change ups here and there for a different flavor. At the end of the day a stun is a stun though, a fear is a fear, alteration type poly effect is that. Call the spell what you want these are simple words that are good for separating categories of CC.
(Diminishing Return is a passive protection to CC that causes CCs of similar category to hit you for less amount of time the more they are cast on you, up to zero. I don't mind if they do a different take on it than WoW but a system similar to this would be the best way to manage how much you can be CC'd)
Stun / Fear / Poly / Incap / Silence / Interrupt
These should be DR categories or something similar
Interrupts should have a DR in this game unlike WoW, you should have a hard limit to how many times you can be interrupted then given a window free to cast unless they plan stuns or other cc for that window. I think Stun duration should be slightly increased from WoWs at the moment. With some other reductions in CC like trinket CD reduction and interrupt DR.
**Animation knockdowns should have a different DR if we have physical animation interrupts in this game, where you can only be knocked down once every 12 sec
I don't think magic-based interrupts should cause a knockdown for physical animations, I think they should have a longer lockout on spells than physical based interrupts though.
**(If there is this gameplay, some people have thrown around the idea since this games form of "GCD" (global cooldown) will apparently be attached to animations)
Base Class CC:
Fighter - Stun 4-5 sec / Possibly Fear/Incap of sorts to use on a focus target / interrupt (physical) short cd / spell "parry" / other cc
Tank - Aoe stun 3 sec / Aoe incap / fear / interrupt (physical) short cd / spell reflects / other cc
Rogue - Stun 5-6 sec / Possibly silence of sorts / interrupt (physical) short cd / my opinion is if it's squishier than Fighter and Tank it should have more CC / Stealth should be heavily nerfed compared to other games since primary focus is WPvP / Maybe 2 min cd 1 min duration with more classes able to detect stealth / other cc
Ranger - Stun 3-4 sec / Possibly silence of sorts / interrupt (physical) (longer cd than melee classes (If melees is 12s then give ranged like 20s CD) , I think it should be 1.5x longer kick for hybrids that can DPS a lot at range, possibly longer lockout on spells for ranger like 5-6 seconds) / Short kick cds on ranged classes is really strong in wpvp / battleground team scenarios / other cc
Mage - Interrupt (magic based) make mage interrupt a silence as well / possibly magic based stun / I would hope this is another squishier with more CC class, frogs, roots, maybe like an alteration spell to put them in a pocket dimension temporarily, whatever flavor u want to give the spell to make it a little different / other cc
Summoner - Interrupt (magic based) / Possibly silence of sorts 3 sec blanket / Think should have a little less CC than mage, maybe a little more survive. Especially for some of its hybrids but think pet class should have less CC imo / other cc
Cleric - Interrupt (magic based) / Dispel, 1 Charge (TWO Charges or other upgrade for High Priest / Scryer) More healing less CC than Bard / magic based incap / other cc
Bard - Interrupt (magic based) / Dispel, 1 Charge (TWO Charges or other upgrade for Minstrel / Soul Weaver) More CC less healing than Cleric / possibly magic based stun / other cc
Hybrids would be able to have mixtures of magical / physical cc of course. I think the base classes should be something along these lines though. Put some knockbacks on hybrids here and there, less they 10% of classes should have a knockback though.
Last notes:
Every class should have an interrupt, it's such an essential mechanic to action bar MMO combat for interrupting healing spells and it's hard to judge what your class needs without it to compensate. I don't know if there should be physical animation interrupts, someone was throwing the idea around since animations are the casts apparently, so I put it on here.
I do think there should be instant spells that are uninterruptable though. Every spell having an animation that could be interrupted sounds silly. It's going to be all mind games with animation cancelling then you stop animation cancelling once they start holding their interrupt. If you're not good at fake casting in WoW, you'll be absolutely horrible at that gameplay. The more I think about it the more it seems worse to me tbh. All melee abilities should be instant, all ranged, and casters should have some instant casts that aren't able to be interrupted. That would probably be the most enjoyable for the most number of players rather than having to animation cancel, which like I said if you're not good at fake casting in WoW GL.
Magic effect Dispel NEEDs to be in the game. If you go double support, then you should get improved dispel in one way or another. One of those four could have an aoe dispel even, like Soul Weaver for example, or maybe a dispel that is an overtime effect for 3 secs and re-purges effects on the target every 1 s for its duration. Trinket or Class abilities should be only ways to get out of a physical stun. Pure magic classes should have other advantages than having a stun that's not able to be dispelled. Range, CC Duration, CC spam ability (No CD on the CC, just cast time)
*I think if you stun someone and they don't have their trinket up, and their healer is CC'd, you're not at a gear / class disadvantage, you're pressing your buttons right... ect.. Then they should die within that stun window. *
Healing and defenses are too strong in retail WoW at the moment. I hope Ashes has a different take on this. I can understand if you're a tank in tank gear surviving a stun in that situation but that's not what I'm talking about. Oh, and I do hope tanks are stronger than in WoW PvP that's why I was thinking they get should get AoE effects for CC, just my opinion.
These are my thoughts on how Ashes of Creation CC should work, yes, it is just like WoW and many other MMOs. You can add new flavor to all these abilities with new effects here and there that make them different. This is just how PvP works in MMOs it's boring if all you're doing is exchanging DPS and HPS output, and damage mitigation. I think that type of gameplay would detract a lot of players. Not being able to stun, interrupt spells, fear/poly/trap/other off targets make you have so much less ability to counter play other players. It's not what people who have played for 20 years want.
In my opinion we want our abilities to feel like they're making an impact on the game in one way or another. They have reduced CC in WoW too much at this point. Spells that made polymorph or hex instant cast on a 2-3min cd were good for the game. Blanket silences over a stun that required trinket to get out of and also prevent you from using spell-based defensives were good for the game. It was counterplay and made engagements faster paced if you understood these concepts.
Share your thoughts below!
CC is needed in MMO action bar combat, 7 button rotation spin just healing vs DPS is not fun, every class should have CC, some should have less, some should have more. That's my general opinion.
Physical CC - Fighter, Tank, Rogue, Ranger
Magical CC - Mage, Summoner, Cleric, Bard
Dispels - Cleric, Bard (Does not effect physical CC abilities, other advantages given to magic based classes for not having the hard lockout physical CC)
Cure All Potion (Trinket) - Personal item it should be 1.5 min CD for a little change up from other MMOs, I think it's necessary. Removes all CC.
Diminishing Returns:
I think there should be DR categories and function similar to WOWs diminishing returns with some change ups here and there for a different flavor. At the end of the day a stun is a stun though, a fear is a fear, alteration type poly effect is that. Call the spell what you want these are simple words that are good for separating categories of CC.
(Diminishing Return is a passive protection to CC that causes CCs of similar category to hit you for less amount of time the more they are cast on you, up to zero. I don't mind if they do a different take on it than WoW but a system similar to this would be the best way to manage how much you can be CC'd)
Stun / Fear / Poly / Incap / Silence / Interrupt
These should be DR categories or something similar
Interrupts should have a DR in this game unlike WoW, you should have a hard limit to how many times you can be interrupted then given a window free to cast unless they plan stuns or other cc for that window. I think Stun duration should be slightly increased from WoWs at the moment. With some other reductions in CC like trinket CD reduction and interrupt DR.
**Animation knockdowns should have a different DR if we have physical animation interrupts in this game, where you can only be knocked down once every 12 sec
I don't think magic-based interrupts should cause a knockdown for physical animations, I think they should have a longer lockout on spells than physical based interrupts though.
**(If there is this gameplay, some people have thrown around the idea since this games form of "GCD" (global cooldown) will apparently be attached to animations)
Base Class CC:
Fighter - Stun 4-5 sec / Possibly Fear/Incap of sorts to use on a focus target / interrupt (physical) short cd / spell "parry" / other cc
Tank - Aoe stun 3 sec / Aoe incap / fear / interrupt (physical) short cd / spell reflects / other cc
Rogue - Stun 5-6 sec / Possibly silence of sorts / interrupt (physical) short cd / my opinion is if it's squishier than Fighter and Tank it should have more CC / Stealth should be heavily nerfed compared to other games since primary focus is WPvP / Maybe 2 min cd 1 min duration with more classes able to detect stealth / other cc
Ranger - Stun 3-4 sec / Possibly silence of sorts / interrupt (physical) (longer cd than melee classes (If melees is 12s then give ranged like 20s CD) , I think it should be 1.5x longer kick for hybrids that can DPS a lot at range, possibly longer lockout on spells for ranger like 5-6 seconds) / Short kick cds on ranged classes is really strong in wpvp / battleground team scenarios / other cc
Mage - Interrupt (magic based) make mage interrupt a silence as well / possibly magic based stun / I would hope this is another squishier with more CC class, frogs, roots, maybe like an alteration spell to put them in a pocket dimension temporarily, whatever flavor u want to give the spell to make it a little different / other cc
Summoner - Interrupt (magic based) / Possibly silence of sorts 3 sec blanket / Think should have a little less CC than mage, maybe a little more survive. Especially for some of its hybrids but think pet class should have less CC imo / other cc
Cleric - Interrupt (magic based) / Dispel, 1 Charge (TWO Charges or other upgrade for High Priest / Scryer) More healing less CC than Bard / magic based incap / other cc
Bard - Interrupt (magic based) / Dispel, 1 Charge (TWO Charges or other upgrade for Minstrel / Soul Weaver) More CC less healing than Cleric / possibly magic based stun / other cc
Hybrids would be able to have mixtures of magical / physical cc of course. I think the base classes should be something along these lines though. Put some knockbacks on hybrids here and there, less they 10% of classes should have a knockback though.
Last notes:
Every class should have an interrupt, it's such an essential mechanic to action bar MMO combat for interrupting healing spells and it's hard to judge what your class needs without it to compensate. I don't know if there should be physical animation interrupts, someone was throwing the idea around since animations are the casts apparently, so I put it on here.
I do think there should be instant spells that are uninterruptable though. Every spell having an animation that could be interrupted sounds silly. It's going to be all mind games with animation cancelling then you stop animation cancelling once they start holding their interrupt. If you're not good at fake casting in WoW, you'll be absolutely horrible at that gameplay. The more I think about it the more it seems worse to me tbh. All melee abilities should be instant, all ranged, and casters should have some instant casts that aren't able to be interrupted. That would probably be the most enjoyable for the most number of players rather than having to animation cancel, which like I said if you're not good at fake casting in WoW GL.
Magic effect Dispel NEEDs to be in the game. If you go double support, then you should get improved dispel in one way or another. One of those four could have an aoe dispel even, like Soul Weaver for example, or maybe a dispel that is an overtime effect for 3 secs and re-purges effects on the target every 1 s for its duration. Trinket or Class abilities should be only ways to get out of a physical stun. Pure magic classes should have other advantages than having a stun that's not able to be dispelled. Range, CC Duration, CC spam ability (No CD on the CC, just cast time)
*I think if you stun someone and they don't have their trinket up, and their healer is CC'd, you're not at a gear / class disadvantage, you're pressing your buttons right... ect.. Then they should die within that stun window. *
Healing and defenses are too strong in retail WoW at the moment. I hope Ashes has a different take on this. I can understand if you're a tank in tank gear surviving a stun in that situation but that's not what I'm talking about. Oh, and I do hope tanks are stronger than in WoW PvP that's why I was thinking they get should get AoE effects for CC, just my opinion.
These are my thoughts on how Ashes of Creation CC should work, yes, it is just like WoW and many other MMOs. You can add new flavor to all these abilities with new effects here and there that make them different. This is just how PvP works in MMOs it's boring if all you're doing is exchanging DPS and HPS output, and damage mitigation. I think that type of gameplay would detract a lot of players. Not being able to stun, interrupt spells, fear/poly/trap/other off targets make you have so much less ability to counter play other players. It's not what people who have played for 20 years want.
In my opinion we want our abilities to feel like they're making an impact on the game in one way or another. They have reduced CC in WoW too much at this point. Spells that made polymorph or hex instant cast on a 2-3min cd were good for the game. Blanket silences over a stun that required trinket to get out of and also prevent you from using spell-based defensives were good for the game. It was counterplay and made engagements faster paced if you understood these concepts.
Share your thoughts below!
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Comments
Full Melee - Shortest CD
Hybrid Range and Melee - 1.5x melee CD
Full Ranged - 2x melee CD
Wasn't so clear on that bit in Ranger.
Oh, and there should be maybe 8 or so classes out of the 64 with a purge in the game, not too many though where all buffs are getting sweeped off constantly purge as in shaman's yes, I'm using wow terms, but a lot of people know them and it's what I've played the most of for PvP