I'm enjoying it for what it is, but I think Ashes will run circles around it. It has all of the normal attributes of a large Korean MMO (e.g. shallow progression, absurd number of currencies, and p2w, etc.). It is pretty well optimized and the world is beautiful to run around in.
It's like eating okay oatmeal in a different hotel room.
Time Ashes release T&L will be a very old game, so bit of a ridiculous comment, may as well say Ashes (if) on release will run rings around LoTRo.
I think T&L is a lot better game than people thought,. I quite enjoying it, wish guilds were bigger, P2W is not obvious yet, though im sure it may be a issue in time, we will see.
The major faults as i can see is a) levelling is far far to fast, some people in the guild were 50 in 4 hours, (took me about 2 days, but I work)
Crafting is terrible, needs to be far better, should involve the player.
wPvP, way to much of a zerg, but not sure how that can be fixed
Arena's are not well thought out, though can be fun.
Servers to easily controlled by one guild.
Few more but cant think of any right now
But end of the day, its a fun game to play for now, will see how long it remains fun
How is the combat at max level for those who experienced it?
Pretty much similar, although it depends on your class/weapon choice. Obviously when you have more choice, you have better chance of finding something you like, which in turn makes combat more enjoyable.
I still want to reiterate that I found it difficult to make a build I enjoy playing, I feel like there are not enough ability choices, and I often found myself liking only 2-3 abilities from each weapon, meaning if I make a combination of two, I only really have 6/12 abilities I enjoy using.
That's why I disliked GW2s class system, and why I'm not a fan of this one either (though it's better a bit imo)
I ended up going with Staff + Sword & Shield at the end, after leveling with Greatsword + Sword & Shield to 50.
Rerolling is a pain in the ass btw.
It's not meta at all, but I enjoy playing it.
I do see potential though, so if they want to expand on it, add more abilities and add more weapons, then great.
Also, my fear that I had with Ashes, actually came true in T&L.
Zergs.
Some content is basically made for zergs, like field bosses, where you either have one zerg + alliances just controlling everything, or you just have 2 zergs going at it. It just means regular players, in regular guilds have no place there.
It's a similar thing with open-world dungeons, where during night, they're pretty much controlled by them (at the moment, because the lvl50 dungeon just got unlocked, and it's the only 1 atm).
Though most of these issues are not really issues. We still have peace world bosses, and open-world dungeons during day don't have PvP inside.
I feel like with Ashes, there isn't going to be that sort of option, where it's PvP, sometimes. It's going to be PvP all the time, and zergs will obviously have a large advantage, by being able to access content that regular players won't (because of those zergs).
Also you use currency that you purchase with real money, in order to buy things on the auction house. You can obtain that currency by selling some stuff in game, however, you would need to get extremely lucky with drops, or somehow get a drop from world boss (and still be lucky that it's a good one), in order to make any meaningful amount of currency (that you will absolutely need, in order to just get gear and upgrade it).
Basically most regular players are locked out from gear progression, but if you want to do it, you can just swipe your credit card. If you are in a zerg guild, you might have a better chance to get some of that loot, however, I'm sure it would depend on the guild itself, when and if they'd give you that world boss item (as it goes into the guild bank whenever it drops for you).
You talking nonsense, do you even understand the game? will reply to just one of the dumb things you said.
Loot only goes to the guild, if its set to in options, in ours it set to go the player who it drops for.
At least learn the basics before running off at the mouth.
How is the combat at max level for those who experienced it?
Pretty much similar, although it depends on your class/weapon choice. Obviously when you have more choice, you have better chance of finding something you like, which in turn makes combat more enjoyable.
I still want to reiterate that I found it difficult to make a build I enjoy playing, I feel like there are not enough ability choices, and I often found myself liking only 2-3 abilities from each weapon, meaning if I make a combination of two, I only really have 6/12 abilities I enjoy using.
That's why I disliked GW2s class system, and why I'm not a fan of this one either (though it's better a bit imo)
I ended up going with Staff + Sword & Shield at the end, after leveling with Greatsword + Sword & Shield to 50.
Rerolling is a pain in the ass btw.
It's not meta at all, but I enjoy playing it.
I do see potential though, so if they want to expand on it, add more abilities and add more weapons, then great.
Also, my fear that I had with Ashes, actually came true in T&L.
Zergs.
Some content is basically made for zergs, like field bosses, where you either have one zerg + alliances just controlling everything, or you just have 2 zergs going at it. It just means regular players, in regular guilds have no place there.
It's a similar thing with open-world dungeons, where during night, they're pretty much controlled by them (at the moment, because the lvl50 dungeon just got unlocked, and it's the only 1 atm).
Though most of these issues are not really issues. We still have peace world bosses, and open-world dungeons during day don't have PvP inside.
I feel like with Ashes, there isn't going to be that sort of option, where it's PvP, sometimes. It's going to be PvP all the time, and zergs will obviously have a large advantage, by being able to access content that regular players won't (because of those zergs).
Also you use currency that you purchase with real money, in order to buy things on the auction house. You can obtain that currency by selling some stuff in game, however, you would need to get extremely lucky with drops, or somehow get a drop from world boss (and still be lucky that it's a good one), in order to make any meaningful amount of currency (that you will absolutely need, in order to just get gear and upgrade it).
Basically most regular players are locked out from gear progression, but if you want to do it, you can just swipe your credit card. If you are in a zerg guild, you might have a better chance to get some of that loot, however, I'm sure it would depend on the guild itself, when and if they'd give you that world boss item (as it goes into the guild bank whenever it drops for you).
You talking nonsense, do you even understand the game? will reply to just one of the dumb things you said.
Loot only goes to the guild, if its set to in options, in ours it set to go the player who it drops for.
At least learn the basics before running off at the mouth.
Seems pretty clear they did play it. That's valuable insight, and disappointing to hear about T&L but not surprising given who published it lol
Interesting mechanics but hopefully Ashes handles the zerg problem ahead of time. It has the potential to be the biggest game-killer if it goes the way of T&L
Ye.. the Rings of Power are related to the Lotr, but one is of quality and the other isnt.
You most def wont see any story writters weight in the pros and cons of Rings of Power.
But I am not surprised that crow finds the fact that TL is related to L2 in such an unimportant manner fascinating, to the point that he feels compelled to write a smartass comment about it.
Propably oblivious to the fact that TL was an isometric/mobile lackluster project. Still is lackluster. I dont know any L2 player that bothers with it.
No relevance to AoC.
It should be evident by now that modern companies try to cash in at the success of older productions, and hey, they fail.
Also not surprising that Amazon (just souless big money) bought up the nostalgia rights.
Ye.. the Rings of Power are related to the Lotr, but one is of quality and the other isnt.
You most def wont see any story writters weight in the pros and cons of Rings of Power.
But I am not surprised that crow finds the fact that TL is related to L2 in such an unimportant manner fascinating, to the point that he feels compelled to write a smartass comment about it.
Propably oblivious to the fact that TL was an isometric/mobile lackluster project. Still is lackluster. I dont know any L2 player that bothers with it.
No relevance to AoC.
It should be evident by now that modern companies try to cash in at the success of older productions, and hey, they fail.
Also not surprising that Amazon (just souless big money) bought up the nostalgia rights.
Dont be consumers.....
I know you trying to say something, but what it is.....
How is the combat at max level for those who experienced it?
Pretty much similar, although it depends on your class/weapon choice. Obviously when you have more choice, you have better chance of finding something you like, which in turn makes combat more enjoyable.
I still want to reiterate that I found it difficult to make a build I enjoy playing, I feel like there are not enough ability choices, and I often found myself liking only 2-3 abilities from each weapon, meaning if I make a combination of two, I only really have 6/12 abilities I enjoy using.
That's why I disliked GW2s class system, and why I'm not a fan of this one either (though it's better a bit imo)
I ended up going with Staff + Sword & Shield at the end, after leveling with Greatsword + Sword & Shield to 50.
Rerolling is a pain in the ass btw.
It's not meta at all, but I enjoy playing it.
I do see potential though, so if they want to expand on it, add more abilities and add more weapons, then great.
Also, my fear that I had with Ashes, actually came true in T&L.
Zergs.
Some content is basically made for zergs, like field bosses, where you either have one zerg + alliances just controlling everything, or you just have 2 zergs going at it. It just means regular players, in regular guilds have no place there.
It's a similar thing with open-world dungeons, where during night, they're pretty much controlled by them (at the moment, because the lvl50 dungeon just got unlocked, and it's the only 1 atm).
Though most of these issues are not really issues. We still have peace world bosses, and open-world dungeons during day don't have PvP inside.
I feel like with Ashes, there isn't going to be that sort of option, where it's PvP, sometimes. It's going to be PvP all the time, and zergs will obviously have a large advantage, by being able to access content that regular players won't (because of those zergs).
Also you use currency that you purchase with real money, in order to buy things on the auction house. You can obtain that currency by selling some stuff in game, however, you would need to get extremely lucky with drops, or somehow get a drop from world boss (and still be lucky that it's a good one), in order to make any meaningful amount of currency (that you will absolutely need, in order to just get gear and upgrade it).
Basically most regular players are locked out from gear progression, but if you want to do it, you can just swipe your credit card. If you are in a zerg guild, you might have a better chance to get some of that loot, however, I'm sure it would depend on the guild itself, when and if they'd give you that world boss item (as it goes into the guild bank whenever it drops for you).
You talking nonsense, do you even understand the game? will reply to just one of the dumb things you said.
Loot only goes to the guild, if its set to in options, in ours it set to go the player who it drops for.
At least learn the basics before running off at the mouth.
Do you even understand anything I said?
Please do let me know what exactly that I said is "dumb"?
I literally gave you my experience from playing the game for a week since launch, with 30+ hours into it.
I literally gave you how I personally feel about the game, and the issues I have with it. It doesn't mean you have the same issues, because we might have different preferences, and we may like different things.
The thing you responded to, I literally said "IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE GUILD ITSELF". And most hardcore guilds/zergs, that will do these bosses regularly, will probably set it to go into guild bank, and then they'd distribute based on who "deserves" it the most.
Anyways, that's literally the stupidest thing to point out in my entire comment, because context matters. This is in context of game being p2w, and you needing rare RNG drops in order to make some money, while someone else can just swipe and buy all the gear. And you literally agreed with that point in your other comment.
Ye.. the Rings of Power are related to the Lotr, but one is of quality and the other isnt.
You most def wont see any story writters weight in the pros and cons of Rings of Power.
Have you played T&L yet?
But I am not surprised that crow finds the fact that TL is related to L2 in such an unimportant manner fascinating, to the point that he feels compelled to write a smartass comment about it.
Relevence isn’t fascination, I found it more fascinating that you needed to bleet about folks talking about another mmo and how some of those features may relate to Ashes.
Propably oblivious to the fact that TL was an isometric/mobile lackluster project. Still is lackluster. I dont know any L2 player that bothers with it. No relevance to AoC.
I mean, nice conjecture, but I’ve followed T&L loosely from its early days when it was still top down. Ultima VII, Diablo, & BG3 are all isometric top down too - yet there are still some relevant features and capabilities Ashes can draw from to make the game awesome.
It should be evident by now that modern companies try to cash in at the success of older productions, and hey, they fail.
Also not surprising that Amazon (just souless big money) bought up the nostalgia rights.
‘By now?’ This isn’t new, of course companies are going to try to push every boundary on their existing product to maximize revenue. Look at Star Wars, Coke, and Oreos. Yes, there are failures, but there are a lot more successes - otherwise this wouldn’t be a normal practice.
Dont be consumers.....
This sounds like you’re trying to be pejorative, but considering we’re all on the forums for a game we’re going to be paying Intrepid to play… it’s a little awkward.
Time Ashes release T&L will be a very old game, so bit of a ridiculous comment, may as well say Ashes (if) on release will run rings around LoTRo.
Maybe, though WoW is turning 20 next month and is still a massive competitor in the mmo space. Hell even the nostalgia for its 2004 branch paved the way for WoW Classic. So 'old' may not necessarily be a factor when it comes to overall comparative gameplay experience.
But end of the day, its a fun game to play for now, will see how long it remains fun
So after playing open-beta for 30 minutes, I thought the game was hot garbage due to 1000 menus, and bad combat system.
TRUE. The menus are obnoxious, and not just because there are a f*ck ton of them but also because they fullscreen you when you click them. If I open my paper doll for my character I want to be able to see the world still.
When you look past the hamster wheel that exponentially increases the resources needed to improve your skills, armor, weapons, etc., you soon realize Throne and Liberty is a very shallow game.
The land mass itself is extremely tiny, and being able to teleport everywhere makes it feel even smaller.
If you enjoy life skills or just don't want to do dungeons every minute of your day then this isn't the game for you. Lost in its design is the reason to play an mmorpg -- the RPG element. There is no reason to want to be in their world other than to progress your gearscore.
I don't mind the guild-centric or pvp-centric nature of the game. The problem is there is no point to any of it. Sure your guild might get certain buffs, such as +10% to resource gathering, but in the end, there really isn't a point to pvp other than e-peen flashing. Nothing will kill off a server quicker than no real stakes.
When you look past the hamster wheel that exponentially increases the resources needed to improve your skills, armor, weapons, etc., you soon realize Throne and Liberty is a very shallow game.
The land mass itself is extremely tiny, and being able to teleport everywhere makes it feel even smaller.
If you enjoy life skills or just don't want to do dungeons every minute of your day then this isn't the game for you. Lost in its design is the reason to play an mmorpg -- the RPG element. There is no reason to want to be in their world other than to progress your gearscore.
I don't mind the guild-centric or pvp-centric nature of the game. The problem is there is no point to any of it. Sure your guild might get certain buffs, such as +10% to resource gathering, but in the end, there really isn't a point to pvp other than e-peen flashing. Nothing will kill off a server quicker than no real stakes.
Yes make people drop their gear and loot and then we hoover it up full loot goblin! 💰
I think that certain merchants change their voice lines according to the timer since you last interacted with them, increasing immersion.
If you haven't interacted with them for a while/for the day, it's a standard line. If you shop, then hang around or re-approach them, the line is something like: "Take your time, if you're in a rush you'll always forget something."
This could be random but if so, statistically they're on an interesting streak of it working in a way for me that would give me this impression, and isn't that just as good?
Lineage 3 is actually better than I thought it would be after they removed the autoplay. It's fast to level, and it's possible to progress without paying. I wouldn't be playing if it wasn't Free to play but its something while I wait for other releases.
Graphics are good for UE4 but with the generic asian look. Reminds me of every other asian MMO I've played. Performance is good and gives me hope for Ashes being on UE5 plus the server meshing tech.
The negatives are a much longer list. P2W of course, typical grindy leveling, clunky movement and combat. I've been using melee mainly and I hate how you have to be on top of someone to hit them+animation locks. No diminishing returns for CC and very little options to break out of Stunlock or counter CC. Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies and menus. Dislike the animal morphs instead of mounts. Some of the end game content like World Bosses/Events and Castle sieges are basically locked behind Zergs. Generic easily skippable story/dialog although the story book style cutscenes are really nice. Amitois are cringe and should not be in the game.
The game feels like another soulless korean grindfest but at least it's F2P and pretty to look at. I fully expect this game to die out after a month or 2 like New World once the new game hype wears off.
Lineage 3 is actually better than I thought it would be after they removed the autoplay. It's fast to level, and it's possible to progress without paying. I wouldn't be playing if it wasn't Free to play but its something while I wait for other releases.
Graphics are good for UE4 but with the generic asian look. Reminds me of every other asian MMO I've played. Performance is good and gives me hope for Ashes being on UE5 plus the server meshing tech.
The negatives are a much longer list. P2W of course, typical grindy leveling, clunky movement and combat. I've been using melee mainly and I hate how you have to be on top of someone to hit them+animation locks. No diminishing returns for CC and very little options to break out of Stunlock or counter CC. Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies and menus. Dislike the animal morphs instead of mounts. Some of the end game content like World Bosses/Events and Castle sieges are basically locked behind Zergs. Generic easily skippable story/dialog although the story book style cutscenes are really nice. Amitois are cringe and should not be in the game.
The game feels like another soulless korean grindfest but at least it's F2P and pretty to look at. I fully expect this game to die out after a month or 2 like New World once the new game hype wears off.
This, Intrepid, is the sort of thing you really need to care about and can probably get the most out of a thread like this if your data person pays attention to sentiment.
TL is the 'realized' version of many things that are intended for Ashes, just in a different package that doesn't appeal to the same tribe as much.
You can use it as a powerful litmus test for what people actually feel once they take their rose-tinted glasses off (though not for me, I love most of these aspects of both games and just don't like WoW-style combat and don't trust your economy yet).
In my opinion there are many people who can enjoy playing both, and many who could enjoy neither, but I don't yet believe that there is a real, large demographic of people who dislike TL (other than what they imagine it is) but will like Ashes.
This, Intrepid, is the sort of thing you really need to care about and can probably get the most out of a thread like this if your data person pays attention to sentiment.
TL is the 'realized' version of many things that are intended for Ashes, just in a different package that doesn't appeal to the same tribe as much.
You can use it as a powerful litmus test for what people actually feel once they take their rose-tinted glasses off (though not for me, I love most of these aspects of both games and just don't like WoW-style combat and don't trust your economy yet).
In my opinion there are many people who can enjoy playing both, and many who could enjoy neither, but I don't yet believe that there is a real, large demographic of people who dislike TL (other than what they imagine it is) but will like Ashes.
Good luck with whatever ye choose to do about it.
Intrepid could learn a lot from what people are saying about TL and apply it to Ashes but I don't think you're right about the last part. I know there are plenty of other players like me that are mainly playing TL because it's free and it's something to do for now. I don't like a lot of things about the game yet I'm still playing and I've gotten enjoyment out of it. I'm taking it for what it is, an average/below average MMO to play temporarily while better games are being made. Some people will hate TL and love Ashes because they are so different. Ashes is already leagues ahead of TL in many aspects IMO.
This, Intrepid, is the sort of thing you really need to care about and can probably get the most out of a thread like this if your data person pays attention to sentiment.
TL is the 'realized' version of many things that are intended for Ashes, just in a different package that doesn't appeal to the same tribe as much.
You can use it as a powerful litmus test for what people actually feel once they take their rose-tinted glasses off (though not for me, I love most of these aspects of both games and just don't like WoW-style combat and don't trust your economy yet).
In my opinion there are many people who can enjoy playing both, and many who could enjoy neither, but I don't yet believe that there is a real, large demographic of people who dislike TL (other than what they imagine it is) but will like Ashes.
Good luck with whatever ye choose to do about it.
Intrepid could learn a lot from what people are saying about TL and apply it to Ashes but I don't think you're right about the last part. I know there are plenty of other players like me that are mainly playing TL because it's free and it's something to do for now. I don't like a lot of things about the game yet I'm still playing and I've gotten enjoyment out of it. I'm taking it for what it is, an average/below average MMO to play temporarily while better games are being made. Some people will hate TL and love Ashes because they are so different. Ashes is already leagues ahead of TL in many aspects IMO.
Though I don't think this will cause you to agree with me, I'll clarify one thing.
I'm more likely to classify you as 'a person who doesn't actually like Ashes that much either' if I had to guess. That's the thing I'm trying to convey to Intrepid if it ends up mattering.
I've heard lots of people say that Ashes is leagues ahead of TL, and in many ways, it absolutely theoretically is, but I also often don't see the people who say stuff like that actually mention anything in Ashes that TL doesn't have. I'm not saying you're that sort of person, you may really be the exact demographic.
But I've moreso met people who 'don't know that TL has the stuff that Ashes has, and they assume it doesn't', or 'doesn't know that Ashes definitely has those same aspects from TL that they don't like'. And ofc the 'Sure this is always a problem in every MMO but Intrepid promised to fix it somehow!' people.
But the good part of that is, I have absolute confidence that Intrepid, at least, are tracking enough of the data to know when that's happening, and if somehow that confidence is misplaced, well, I'm saying something now.
I agree with Peon's video also. The game looks great and it's fun to explore but the combat needs a bit of work and the dual weapon system felt clunky when compared to GW2's dual wep system.
I think T&L have done a lot of great things. However the one thing that needs to be highly managed are the Zerg guilds. Its great that people can create large guilds but they should not dominate the server where a portion of in game activity can't be done
Could you explain to me how those 2 things coexist in TL for you?
Do you mean "I can't skip through quest dialogue to level up fast" or do you mean "I want wow-like leveling where I fight bosses for leveling" (cause wow dungeons are just glorified boss rooms)?
Also, I totally agree with Azherae here. You will not like Ashes, considering your list of dislikes from TL. I haven't even played TL, but it's obvious that there's a ton of overlap in design and Ashes will most fucking definitely have a waaaaay grindier leveling.
Could you explain to me how those 2 things coexist in TL for you?
Do you mean "I can't skip through quest dialogue to level up fast" or do you mean "I want wow-like leveling where I fight bosses for leveling" (cause wow dungeons are just glorified boss rooms)?
Also, I totally agree with Azherae here. You will not like Ashes, considering your list of dislikes from TL. I haven't even played TL, but it's obvious that there's a ton of overlap in design and Ashes will most fucking definitely have a waaaaay grindier leveling.
Hold on.
-P2W of course
-typical grindy leveling
-clunky movement and combat
-No diminishing returns for CC and very little options to break out of Stunlock or counter CC.
-Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies and menus.
-Dislike the animal morphs instead of mounts.
-Some of the end game content like World Bosses/Events and Castle sieges are basically locked behind Zergs.
-Generic easily skippable story/dialog although the story book style cutscenes are really nice.
-Amitois are cringe and should not be in the game.
How are they not going to like Ashes, based on those criticisms above?
Ashes won't have p2w, clunky movement and combat is really not something Ashes devs are striving for, cc is still up for debate, and they just did a dev discussion on that topic.
Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies, and menus - remains to be seen, and it really depends how it's designed. In TL the menus and everything is overwhelming for new players especially, because everything is thrown at you at lvl 1.
Animal morphs instead of mounts is not something Ashes will have.
The only valid point would be zergs, and how certain end-game content is basically locked behind zergs, and really inaccessible for regular players. I don't entirely agree with that point (as you can do peace bosses, and they constantly rotate - a bigger issue is actually the RNG loot), and I feel it's actually more accessible in T&L than it will be in Ashes, due to Ashes always having PvP on.
I really like mass pvp, but at the same time, I really hate content being inaccessible due to zergs. It's one thing to design content for groups, and guilds, but zergs are something else, which means most guilds/groups won't have access to that "group content" after all, because zergs will deny access.
Anyways, the other 2 point also don't apply to Ashes.
In regards to grindy leveling. I'm not sure I totally agree, but I can see their point.
Leveling is overall really fast, because you get a TON of xp from doing quests, and especially the main story.
It's just that at certain points, you can find yourself without any quests, until you level up, so you have to just go out and kill mobs, or do some "side quests" to level up. It's not that it's grindy, it's that it's too easy, and then suddenly you have to grind a bit to level up, in order to access those MSQs, and continue that easy leveling.
But that's more because of bad design, and I don't think Ashes will make leveling grindy just for the sake of it, but there will be stuff to do to level up, other than killing stuff, etc.
yep there are definitely a lot of things I would not want from T&L in Ashes and this is one of them.
Elaborate please?
You don't want mass PvP? Because, I hate to break it to you, but that's like the main thing that will happen in Ashes.
Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuOsCGX5n4c , in this video although there is a massive battle you can appreciate what the characters are doing and you could say that although it is “ A CHAOTIC BATTLE WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF FLASHES ” you can appreciate what the characters are doing. .
In the video I showed about T&L you can't see that, T&L is a PC MMORPG while the other one is a mobile MMORPG that came out 4 years ago.
I know very well that AoC will have that kind of “chaotic massive battles”, EVERYONE who has played L2 or ArcheAge KNOWS THAT , but one thing is to have “massive chaotic battles” where you can appreciate what happens with the characters and another thing is to have “massive chaotic battles” where it is very difficult to appreciate what happens with the characters.
Even AA which just turned 10 this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTm97N75Upc
has better visibility of what the characters are doing in “a chaotic battle” than what T&L has shown in 2024 .
Yes I definitely WANT MASSIVE CHAOTIC BATTLES in Ashes but DEFINITELY not like T&L.
I am sincerely grateful to the Intrepid devs who realize those little details that change things about the vision of a battle and how a battle should feel from the “vision” perspective.
yep there are definitely a lot of things I would not want from T&L in Ashes and this is one of them.
Elaborate please?
You don't want mass PvP? Because, I hate to break it to you, but that's like the main thing that will happen in Ashes.
Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuOsCGX5n4c , in this video although there is a massive battle you can appreciate what the characters are doing and you could say that although it is “ A CHAOTIC BATTLE WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF FLASHES ” you can appreciate what the characters are doing. .
In the video I showed about T&L you can't see that, T&L is a PC MMORPG while the other one is a mobile MMORPG that came out 4 years ago.
I know very well that AoC will have that kind of “chaotic massive battles”, EVERYONE who has played L2 or ArcheAge KNOWS THAT , but one thing is to have “massive chaotic battles” where you can appreciate what happens with the characters and another thing is to have “massive chaotic battles” where it is very difficult to appreciate what happens with the characters.
Even AA which just turned 10 this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTm97N75Upc
has better visibility of what the characters are doing in “a chaotic battle” than what T&L has shown in 2024 .
Yes I definitely WANT MASSIVE CHAOTIC BATTLES in Ashes but DEFINITELY not like T&L.
I am sincerely grateful to the Intrepid devs who realize those little details that change things about the vision of a battle and how a battle should feel from the “vision” perspective.
Ah, got it now.
Yes, I agree.
The issue is, I think, the player health bars obscuring much of the fight, and on top of that, animations/spell effects seem to be disabled for everyone except the player's character (and maybe their party), so it just looks like the enemies are moving and not doing much. Now keep in mind that is done to reduce the lag/improve performance, as it gets really laggy with so many people around in T&L.
At the same time, the characters seem to blend in with the background/environment, so that doesn't help either.
Could you explain to me how those 2 things coexist in TL for you?
Do you mean "I can't skip through quest dialogue to level up fast" or do you mean "I want wow-like leveling where I fight bosses for leveling" (cause wow dungeons are just glorified boss rooms)?
Also, I totally agree with Azherae here. You will not like Ashes, considering your list of dislikes from TL. I haven't even played TL, but it's obvious that there's a ton of overlap in design and Ashes will most fucking definitely have a waaaaay grindier leveling.
Grindy as in it's boring and monotonous. The leveling process is the same as MMOs from decades ago, they didn't try to innovate much. Where as Ashes will have Dynamic Events and Organizations which have the potential to make things more interesting. I mentioned the fast leveling because I expected them to make it harder to level without paying intentionally. Not because I like faster leveling, I would prefer it to take longer for multiple reasons. You can skip through the dialog which I did because I found everything except certain cutscenes to be uninteresting.
iccer is correct, there are so many differences between the 2 that's it's absurd to jump to conclusions like you and Azherae have, especially when you haven't even played the game to understand what I'm talking about. Ashes has far more depth in it's systems than TL from large scale conflicts to wars and nodes. TL's large scale PvP like I said is very zergy, optional and not really meaningful. Those are all valid criticisms that should be considered by upcoming MMOs including Ashes. My favorite game of all time was Warhammer Online which if you don't know was almost entirely Open World and Instanced PvP starting from level 1. Most of the time I refuse to play a game if it doesn't have PvP in it. If there was ever a target audience for this game, I'm a shining example. In fact, I would prefer there was more PvP than currently intended and the game resembled Warhammer in more ways.
Where as Ashes will have Dynamic Events and Organizations which have the potential to make things more interesting.
Those events and orgs will still have you killing mobs and skipping npc dialogue. None of that will be any different from what you can/need to do in TL.
Except in Ashes you'll need to be doing that for ~220 hours.
TL's large scale PvP like I said is very zergy, optional and not really meaningful.
In Ashes pvp will be zergy, will be optional for any strong group (especially if guild wars can't be forced onto people) and I dunno what exactly people fight over in TL that would be different in Ashes. I've seen people fight over world bosses, sieges and events. Ashes will have all of those as well.
And with open seas, Ashes will have even more meaningless pvp in it, cause people will just go out to sea to kill others.
This is why I don't exactly understand how TL is any different from Ashes in this context.
Overall, I've been enjoying the game a lot more than I thought I would. The pve is pretty good. Pretty game, beautiful soundtrack. Gear/character progression might be a little over-complicated but interesting. The mobile game roots definitely show through and make the game feel soulless, but it's passable.
The pvp format might be the worst I've ever seen. Ever. Over 30 years of gaming. Across all genres, not just mmos. This could be the worst, most embarassing pvp I've ever seen. I hope Intrepid is taking notes.
Comments
Time Ashes release T&L will be a very old game, so bit of a ridiculous comment, may as well say Ashes (if) on release will run rings around LoTRo.
I think T&L is a lot better game than people thought,. I quite enjoying it, wish guilds were bigger, P2W is not obvious yet, though im sure it may be a issue in time, we will see.
The major faults as i can see is a) levelling is far far to fast, some people in the guild were 50 in 4 hours, (took me about 2 days, but I work)
Crafting is terrible, needs to be far better, should involve the player.
wPvP, way to much of a zerg, but not sure how that can be fixed
Arena's are not well thought out, though can be fun.
Servers to easily controlled by one guild.
Few more but cant think of any right now
But end of the day, its a fun game to play for now, will see how long it remains fun
You talking nonsense, do you even understand the game? will reply to just one of the dumb things you said.
Loot only goes to the guild, if its set to in options, in ours it set to go the player who it drops for.
At least learn the basics before running off at the mouth.
yep there are definitely a lot of things I would not want from T&L in Ashes and this is one of them.
Seems pretty clear they did play it. That's valuable insight, and disappointing to hear about T&L but not surprising given who published it lol
Interesting mechanics but hopefully Ashes handles the zerg problem ahead of time. It has the potential to be the biggest game-killer if it goes the way of T&L
You most def wont see any story writters weight in the pros and cons of Rings of Power.
But I am not surprised that crow finds the fact that TL is related to L2 in such an unimportant manner fascinating, to the point that he feels compelled to write a smartass comment about it.
Propably oblivious to the fact that TL was an isometric/mobile lackluster project. Still is lackluster. I dont know any L2 player that bothers with it.
No relevance to AoC.
It should be evident by now that modern companies try to cash in at the success of older productions, and hey, they fail.
Also not surprising that Amazon (just souless big money) bought up the nostalgia rights.
Dont be consumers.....
runs pretty smooth with many people on screen
to loadingscreens when teleporting
con:
generic korea mmo slob #851
Funny enough gear drops are not bad, its thing like crafting items, where the drops are horrendous
I know you trying to say something, but what it is.....
Do you even understand anything I said?
Please do let me know what exactly that I said is "dumb"?
I literally gave you my experience from playing the game for a week since launch, with 30+ hours into it.
I literally gave you how I personally feel about the game, and the issues I have with it. It doesn't mean you have the same issues, because we might have different preferences, and we may like different things.
The thing you responded to, I literally said "IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE GUILD ITSELF". And most hardcore guilds/zergs, that will do these bosses regularly, will probably set it to go into guild bank, and then they'd distribute based on who "deserves" it the most.
Anyways, that's literally the stupidest thing to point out in my entire comment, because context matters. This is in context of game being p2w, and you needing rare RNG drops in order to make some money, while someone else can just swipe and buy all the gear. And you literally agreed with that point in your other comment.
Elaborate please?
You don't want mass PvP? Because, I hate to break it to you, but that's like the main thing that will happen in Ashes.
Have you played T&L yet?
Relevence isn’t fascination, I found it more fascinating that you needed to bleet about folks talking about another mmo and how some of those features may relate to Ashes.
I mean, nice conjecture, but I’ve followed T&L loosely from its early days when it was still top down. Ultima VII, Diablo, & BG3 are all isometric top down too - yet there are still some relevant features and capabilities Ashes can draw from to make the game awesome.
‘By now?’ This isn’t new, of course companies are going to try to push every boundary on their existing product to maximize revenue. Look at Star Wars, Coke, and Oreos. Yes, there are failures, but there are a lot more successes - otherwise this wouldn’t be a normal practice.
This sounds like you’re trying to be pejorative, but considering we’re all on the forums for a game we’re going to be paying Intrepid to play… it’s a little awkward.
What are you trying to say?
Maybe, though WoW is turning 20 next month and is still a massive competitor in the mmo space. Hell even the nostalgia for its 2004 branch paved the way for WoW Classic. So 'old' may not necessarily be a factor when it comes to overall comparative gameplay experience.
Agree 100%
TRUE. The menus are obnoxious, and not just because there are a f*ck ton of them but also because they fullscreen you when you click them. If I open my paper doll for my character I want to be able to see the world still.
The land mass itself is extremely tiny, and being able to teleport everywhere makes it feel even smaller.
If you enjoy life skills or just don't want to do dungeons every minute of your day then this isn't the game for you. Lost in its design is the reason to play an mmorpg -- the RPG element. There is no reason to want to be in their world other than to progress your gearscore.
I don't mind the guild-centric or pvp-centric nature of the game. The problem is there is no point to any of it. Sure your guild might get certain buffs, such as +10% to resource gathering, but in the end, there really isn't a point to pvp other than e-peen flashing. Nothing will kill off a server quicker than no real stakes.
Yes make people drop their gear and loot and then we hoover it up full loot goblin! 💰
I think that certain merchants change their voice lines according to the timer since you last interacted with them, increasing immersion.
If you haven't interacted with them for a while/for the day, it's a standard line. If you shop, then hang around or re-approach them, the line is something like: "Take your time, if you're in a rush you'll always forget something."
This could be random but if so, statistically they're on an interesting streak of it working in a way for me that would give me this impression, and isn't that just as good?
Graphics are good for UE4 but with the generic asian look. Reminds me of every other asian MMO I've played. Performance is good and gives me hope for Ashes being on UE5 plus the server meshing tech.
The negatives are a much longer list. P2W of course, typical grindy leveling, clunky movement and combat. I've been using melee mainly and I hate how you have to be on top of someone to hit them+animation locks. No diminishing returns for CC and very little options to break out of Stunlock or counter CC. Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies and menus. Dislike the animal morphs instead of mounts. Some of the end game content like World Bosses/Events and Castle sieges are basically locked behind Zergs. Generic easily skippable story/dialog although the story book style cutscenes are really nice. Amitois are cringe and should not be in the game.
The game feels like another soulless korean grindfest but at least it's F2P and pretty to look at. I fully expect this game to die out after a month or 2 like New World once the new game hype wears off.
This, Intrepid, is the sort of thing you really need to care about and can probably get the most out of a thread like this if your data person pays attention to sentiment.
TL is the 'realized' version of many things that are intended for Ashes, just in a different package that doesn't appeal to the same tribe as much.
You can use it as a powerful litmus test for what people actually feel once they take their rose-tinted glasses off (though not for me, I love most of these aspects of both games and just don't like WoW-style combat and don't trust your economy yet).
In my opinion there are many people who can enjoy playing both, and many who could enjoy neither, but I don't yet believe that there is a real, large demographic of people who dislike TL (other than what they imagine it is) but will like Ashes.
Good luck with whatever ye choose to do about it.
Though I don't think this will cause you to agree with me, I'll clarify one thing.
I'm more likely to classify you as 'a person who doesn't actually like Ashes that much either' if I had to guess. That's the thing I'm trying to convey to Intrepid if it ends up mattering.
I've heard lots of people say that Ashes is leagues ahead of TL, and in many ways, it absolutely theoretically is, but I also often don't see the people who say stuff like that actually mention anything in Ashes that TL doesn't have. I'm not saying you're that sort of person, you may really be the exact demographic.
But I've moreso met people who 'don't know that TL has the stuff that Ashes has, and they assume it doesn't', or 'doesn't know that Ashes definitely has those same aspects from TL that they don't like'. And ofc the 'Sure this is always a problem in every MMO but Intrepid promised to fix it somehow!' people.
But the good part of that is, I have absolute confidence that Intrepid, at least, are tracking enough of the data to know when that's happening, and if somehow that confidence is misplaced, well, I'm saying something now.
Do you mean "I can't skip through quest dialogue to level up fast" or do you mean "I want wow-like leveling where I fight bosses for leveling" (cause wow dungeons are just glorified boss rooms)?
Also, I totally agree with Azherae here. You will not like Ashes, considering your list of dislikes from TL. I haven't even played TL, but it's obvious that there's a ton of overlap in design and Ashes will most fucking definitely have a waaaaay grindier leveling.
Hold on.
-P2W of course
-typical grindy leveling
-clunky movement and combat
-No diminishing returns for CC and very little options to break out of Stunlock or counter CC.
-Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies and menus.
-Dislike the animal morphs instead of mounts.
-Some of the end game content like World Bosses/Events and Castle sieges are basically locked behind Zergs.
-Generic easily skippable story/dialog although the story book style cutscenes are really nice.
-Amitois are cringe and should not be in the game.
How are they not going to like Ashes, based on those criticisms above?
Ashes won't have p2w, clunky movement and combat is really not something Ashes devs are striving for, cc is still up for debate, and they just did a dev discussion on that topic.
Excessive amounts of character stats, currencies, and menus - remains to be seen, and it really depends how it's designed. In TL the menus and everything is overwhelming for new players especially, because everything is thrown at you at lvl 1.
Animal morphs instead of mounts is not something Ashes will have.
The only valid point would be zergs, and how certain end-game content is basically locked behind zergs, and really inaccessible for regular players. I don't entirely agree with that point (as you can do peace bosses, and they constantly rotate - a bigger issue is actually the RNG loot), and I feel it's actually more accessible in T&L than it will be in Ashes, due to Ashes always having PvP on.
I really like mass pvp, but at the same time, I really hate content being inaccessible due to zergs. It's one thing to design content for groups, and guilds, but zergs are something else, which means most guilds/groups won't have access to that "group content" after all, because zergs will deny access.
Anyways, the other 2 point also don't apply to Ashes.
In regards to grindy leveling. I'm not sure I totally agree, but I can see their point.
Leveling is overall really fast, because you get a TON of xp from doing quests, and especially the main story.
It's just that at certain points, you can find yourself without any quests, until you level up, so you have to just go out and kill mobs, or do some "side quests" to level up. It's not that it's grindy, it's that it's too easy, and then suddenly you have to grind a bit to level up, in order to access those MSQs, and continue that easy leveling.
But that's more because of bad design, and I don't think Ashes will make leveling grindy just for the sake of it, but there will be stuff to do to level up, other than killing stuff, etc.
Look at this video
In the video I showed about T&L you can't see that, T&L is a PC MMORPG while the other one is a mobile MMORPG that came out 4 years ago.
I know very well that AoC will have that kind of “chaotic massive battles”, EVERYONE who has played L2 or ArcheAge KNOWS THAT , but one thing is to have “massive chaotic battles” where you can appreciate what happens with the characters and another thing is to have “massive chaotic battles” where it is very difficult to appreciate what happens with the characters.
Even AA which just turned 10 this year
has better visibility of what the characters are doing in “a chaotic battle” than what T&L has shown in 2024 .
Yes I definitely WANT MASSIVE CHAOTIC BATTLES in Ashes but DEFINITELY not like T&L.
Look at this
, even Ashes which is in ALPHA status has better visibility than what T&L has shown in that “massive battle” .
I am sincerely grateful to the Intrepid devs who realize those little details that change things about the vision of a battle and how a battle should feel from the “vision” perspective.
Ah, got it now.
Yes, I agree.
The issue is, I think, the player health bars obscuring much of the fight, and on top of that, animations/spell effects seem to be disabled for everyone except the player's character (and maybe their party), so it just looks like the enemies are moving and not doing much. Now keep in mind that is done to reduce the lag/improve performance, as it gets really laggy with so many people around in T&L.
At the same time, the characters seem to blend in with the background/environment, so that doesn't help either.
It does look bad, definitely.
Grindy as in it's boring and monotonous. The leveling process is the same as MMOs from decades ago, they didn't try to innovate much. Where as Ashes will have Dynamic Events and Organizations which have the potential to make things more interesting. I mentioned the fast leveling because I expected them to make it harder to level without paying intentionally. Not because I like faster leveling, I would prefer it to take longer for multiple reasons. You can skip through the dialog which I did because I found everything except certain cutscenes to be uninteresting.
iccer is correct, there are so many differences between the 2 that's it's absurd to jump to conclusions like you and Azherae have, especially when you haven't even played the game to understand what I'm talking about. Ashes has far more depth in it's systems than TL from large scale conflicts to wars and nodes. TL's large scale PvP like I said is very zergy, optional and not really meaningful. Those are all valid criticisms that should be considered by upcoming MMOs including Ashes. My favorite game of all time was Warhammer Online which if you don't know was almost entirely Open World and Instanced PvP starting from level 1. Most of the time I refuse to play a game if it doesn't have PvP in it. If there was ever a target audience for this game, I'm a shining example. In fact, I would prefer there was more PvP than currently intended and the game resembled Warhammer in more ways.
Except in Ashes you'll need to be doing that for ~220 hours.
In Ashes pvp will be zergy, will be optional for any strong group (especially if guild wars can't be forced onto people) and I dunno what exactly people fight over in TL that would be different in Ashes. I've seen people fight over world bosses, sieges and events. Ashes will have all of those as well.
And with open seas, Ashes will have even more meaningless pvp in it, cause people will just go out to sea to kill others.
This is why I don't exactly understand how TL is any different from Ashes in this context.
The pvp format might be the worst I've ever seen. Ever. Over 30 years of gaming. Across all genres, not just mmos. This could be the worst, most embarassing pvp I've ever seen. I hope Intrepid is taking notes.