Steven! Best MMO player run economy!

EVE Online! Steven, check out the EVE online wiki on economy. Better yet, start a free account and fly to the JITA system and see how their buy and sell order system works in real time. This is the main hub for economic transactions in the game (there are smaller regional ones as well). This location was chosen by players. Steven, billions in ISK (EVE money) is traded every day. Prices rise and fall based on fundamental macro and micro economic activity.

EVE also has a robust stock ownership system as well.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Tjaeden

Former EVE player here - "Buy Orders" are necessary for any real materials economy to function.

WoW's MAJOR auction house problem is lacking in buy orders.

Caww

and yet WoW does not suffer from a lack of transactions

RocketFarmer

Believe he’s stated EVE Online was a major influence for economic systems. We just haven’t gotten to see that in the showcases, except for the node mayoral system, which isn’t quite the same as a standard market Buy order. So I assume they are on this.

By the way, the system should allow player market makers as well. The Bid (Buy price) and Ask (Sell price) are not equal in a market, with the difference going to the market maker. Really meaning the one with fluidity in the market to make the trades happen, for a profit. The more volatile the market, the more the market maker gets from the transaction. Also need to be able to short the prices to have a correct system, plus add a futures and options market for trades of longer duration and speculation. Those things make for more realistic prices.

Transaction Definitions

Market Buy Order - pay the current Ask price for an item/asset now.

Market Sell Order - sell at the current Bid price for an item/asset now.

Limit Buy Order - pay the indicated price for an item/asset once the Ask price hits that value, limited usually by the end of the trading day or some specified time period.

Limit Sell Order - sell at the indicated price for an item/asset usually by the end of the trading day or some specified time period.

Short Sale Order - borrow an item/asset at the current price and sell it in exchange for a promise/contract to buy it back at a future price and return the item/asset back to the lender. This is where player market makers are important or equivalent lenders. The short seller also agrees to cover their position for the difference in price fluctuations in the margin account (funds held in the market maker’s account to ensure the transaction can be executed). Failure to meet the margin requires the short holder to pay the current Ask price, which can typically wipe out their margin account or put them into debt.

Won’t list the Options and Futures transaction definitions because that gets very long and complicated. However, these types of transactions involve two sides of a trade, and offers ways to leverage the market with less funds invested. Options typically representing 100 assets and Futures contracts representing a variety of quantities for the current asset. Some Options require an obligation to buy or sell, whereas others offer the opportunity without obligation at a premium for a set period of time. You’ll end up seeing a lot of contracts bought and sold (written) without exercising the option (exchanging the assets). Futures contract represent an obligation to buy, although you can sell the contract before expiration to someone else interested in the purchase. Both forms are derivative markets because you are buying and selling contracts that may or may not result in a trade for assets.

With a server cap of around 10,000 players I wonder how well or healthy a market system will function. EVE Online markets are based on a much greater player base. Then you have to factor what percentage of Ashes players will engage in these markets. That could translate into higher volatility within these markets, with each server offering something different.

Arya_Yeshe

Yeap, we are aware it, and probably a lot of Intrepid's staff too. You can literally live as a trader and many people do without even need to fire a weapon, crazy right?

Knotti

I’m not sold that buy orders should exist.
In a game like Eve it’s based in a time period where machines run everything. It’s a massive space that is structured on time-based progression; massive amounts of goods are freighted around for people to use at locations to enact a time based process that is themed to be very advanced and built not by your hands but the machines within the game.
In Ashes the theme is that you’re an individual character within a medieval realm. Goods are obtained by your character doing the work. As a trader you should have to be in the location to make a purchase. Setting up buy orders will open up a type of economy that will be very automated and machine-like, and inventories of goods will sit in a potential “paper” form in mailboxes holding to manipulate market values etc.
As a trader in Ashes it shouldn’t be as simple as setting up a bunch of orders for the game to play for you. You should have to travel to locations and network with fellow players to buy/collect the goods you want and as a team move the goods to where they need to be offloaded. I’m not saying auction houses shouldn’t exist but that you should have to be at the auction to make a bid. To find out when/where/price/item you would use your network of fellow traders throughout Verra; If people aren’t coming to you to buy your stuff it’s time to move it.
You won’t be able to go into an area and set up a massive buy order on the auction house for people to view and fill the number. Instead you have to talk to the people of the area and strike a trade deal.

wakkytabbaky

Knotti wrote: »

I’m not sold that buy orders should exist.
In a game like Eve it’s based in a time period where machines run everything. It’s a massive space that is structured on time-based progression; massive amounts of goods are freighted around for people to use at locations to enact a time based process that is themed to be very advanced and built not by your hands but the machines within the game.
In Ashes the theme is that you’re an individual character within a medieval realm. Goods are obtained by your character doing the work. As a trader you should have to be in the location to make a purchase. Setting up buy orders will open up a type of economy that will be very automated and machine-like, and inventories of goods will sit in a potential “paper” form in mailboxes holding to manipulate market values etc.
As a trader in Ashes it shouldn’t be as simple as setting up a bunch of orders for the game to play for you. You should have to travel to locations and network with fellow players to buy/collect the goods you want and as a team move the goods to where they need to be offloaded. I’m not saying auction houses shouldn’t exist but that you should have to be at the auction to make a bid. To find out when/where/price/item you would use your network of fellow traders throughout Verra; If people aren’t coming to you to buy your stuff it’s time to move it.
You won’t be able to go into an area and set up a massive buy order on the auction house for people to view and fill the number. Instead you have to talk to the people of the area and strike a trade deal.

since auction houses arent linked im fine with having some form of buy order system, since you will still have to run there to place the order , has to be picked up from there and then transported away via caravan if you plan to move it. as long as auction houses arent linked buy orders arent really a problem. there will be the linked auction house from a eco metro to another eco metro but you still need to travel to said auction house to pick that stuff up

Electronn

Knotti wrote: »

I’m not sold that buy orders should exist.
In a game like Eve it’s based in a time period where machines run everything. It’s a massive space that is structured on time-based progression; massive amounts of goods are freighted around for people to use at locations to enact a time based process that is themed to be very advanced and built not by your hands but the machines within the game.
In Ashes the theme is that you’re an individual character within a medieval realm. Goods are obtained by your character doing the work. As a trader you should have to be in the location to make a purchase. Setting up buy orders will open up a type of economy that will be very automated and machine-like, and inventories of goods will sit in a potential “paper” form in mailboxes holding to manipulate market values etc.
As a trader in Ashes it shouldn’t be as simple as setting up a bunch of orders for the game to play for you. You should have to travel to locations and network with fellow players to buy/collect the goods you want and as a team move the goods to where they need to be offloaded. I’m not saying auction houses shouldn’t exist but that you should have to be at the auction to make a bid. To find out when/where/price/item you would use your network of fellow traders throughout Verra; If people aren’t coming to you to buy your stuff it’s time to move it.
You won’t be able to go into an area and set up a massive buy order on the auction house for people to view and fill the number. Instead you have to talk to the people of the area and strike a trade deal.

Well said. Agree 100%

Knotti

wakkytabbaky wrote: »

Knotti wrote: »

I’m not sold that buy orders should exist.
In a game like Eve it’s based in a time period where machines run everything. It’s a massive space that is structured on time-based progression; massive amounts of goods are freighted around for people to use at locations to enact a time based process that is themed to be very advanced and built not by your hands but the machines within the game.
In Ashes the theme is that you’re an individual character within a medieval realm. Goods are obtained by your character doing the work. As a trader you should have to be in the location to make a purchase. Setting up buy orders will open up a type of economy that will be very automated and machine-like, and inventories of goods will sit in a potential “paper” form in mailboxes holding to manipulate market values etc.
As a trader in Ashes it shouldn’t be as simple as setting up a bunch of orders for the game to play for you. You should have to travel to locations and network with fellow players to buy/collect the goods you want and as a team move the goods to where they need to be offloaded. I’m not saying auction houses shouldn’t exist but that you should have to be at the auction to make a bid. To find out when/where/price/item you would use your network of fellow traders throughout Verra; If people aren’t coming to you to buy your stuff it’s time to move it.
You won’t be able to go into an area and set up a massive buy order on the auction house for people to view and fill the number. Instead you have to talk to the people of the area and strike a trade deal.

since auction houses arent linked im fine with having some form of buy order system, since you will still have to run there to place the order , has to be picked up from there and then transported away via caravan if you plan to move it. as long as auction houses arent linked buy orders arent really a problem. there will be the linked auction house from a eco metro to another eco metro but you still need to travel to said auction house to pick that stuff up

If that is the system how often will people make long term buy orders and then never pick them up? What if I make a buy order then head to the other continent of Verra? Holy long do those goods sit in storage? Does node storage for auction pick ups have capacity? Did someone simply create a bigger buy order with a higher offer when I left and nothing will be filled?
It should be like going down to the local auction and seeing what you can get rather than making an online bid and picking it up at your convenience. Then you’ll potentially have to caravan the goods to another location in short order.

wakkytabbaky

Knotti wrote: »

wakkytabbaky wrote: »

Knotti wrote: »

I’m not sold that buy orders should exist.
In a game like Eve it’s based in a time period where machines run everything. It’s a massive space that is structured on time-based progression; massive amounts of goods are freighted around for people to use at locations to enact a time based process that is themed to be very advanced and built not by your hands but the machines within the game.
In Ashes the theme is that you’re an individual character within a medieval realm. Goods are obtained by your character doing the work. As a trader you should have to be in the location to make a purchase. Setting up buy orders will open up a type of economy that will be very automated and machine-like, and inventories of goods will sit in a potential “paper” form in mailboxes holding to manipulate market values etc.
As a trader in Ashes it shouldn’t be as simple as setting up a bunch of orders for the game to play for you. You should have to travel to locations and network with fellow players to buy/collect the goods you want and as a team move the goods to where they need to be offloaded. I’m not saying auction houses shouldn’t exist but that you should have to be at the auction to make a bid. To find out when/where/price/item you would use your network of fellow traders throughout Verra; If people aren’t coming to you to buy your stuff it’s time to move it.
You won’t be able to go into an area and set up a massive buy order on the auction house for people to view and fill the number. Instead you have to talk to the people of the area and strike a trade deal.

since auction houses arent linked im fine with having some form of buy order system, since you will still have to run there to place the order , has to be picked up from there and then transported away via caravan if you plan to move it. as long as auction houses arent linked buy orders arent really a problem. there will be the linked auction house from a eco metro to another eco metro but you still need to travel to said auction house to pick that stuff up

If that is the system how often will people make long term buy orders and then never pick them up? What if I make a buy order then head to the other continent of Verra? Holy long do those goods sit in storage? Does node storage for auction pick ups have capacity? Did someone simply create a bigger buy order with a higher offer when I left and nothing will be filled?
It should be like going down to the local auction and seeing what you can get rather than making an online bid and picking it up at your convenience. Then you’ll potentially have to caravan the goods to another location in short order.

can work the buy order systems , maybe make it so you have to visit the AH where the order is at a regular interval say once a week ( if not already fulfilled) and if no visit is there null the order, if it completes and you dont pick it up then maybe give a week or two for a pickup then if the person doesnt pick it up they suffer the losses of their glint / gold and the item stack goes up for a bid auction to act as a gold sink / income for the town

if the buy order thing is added it would need alot of mechanic tweaking to make it work for ashes. but with auction houses not being linked it takes away alot of the issues they cause

Knotti

wakkytabbaky wrote: »

Knotti wrote: »

wakkytabbaky wrote: »

Knotti wrote: »

I’m not sold that buy orders should exist.
In a game like Eve it’s based in a time period where machines run everything. It’s a massive space that is structured on time-based progression; massive amounts of goods are freighted around for people to use at locations to enact a time based process that is themed to be very advanced and built not by your hands but the machines within the game.
In Ashes the theme is that you’re an individual character within a medieval realm. Goods are obtained by your character doing the work. As a trader you should have to be in the location to make a purchase. Setting up buy orders will open up a type of economy that will be very automated and machine-like, and inventories of goods will sit in a potential “paper” form in mailboxes holding to manipulate market values etc.
As a trader in Ashes it shouldn’t be as simple as setting up a bunch of orders for the game to play for you. You should have to travel to locations and network with fellow players to buy/collect the goods you want and as a team move the goods to where they need to be offloaded. I’m not saying auction houses shouldn’t exist but that you should have to be at the auction to make a bid. To find out when/where/price/item you would use your network of fellow traders throughout Verra; If people aren’t coming to you to buy your stuff it’s time to move it.
You won’t be able to go into an area and set up a massive buy order on the auction house for people to view and fill the number. Instead you have to talk to the people of the area and strike a trade deal.

since auction houses arent linked im fine with having some form of buy order system, since you will still have to run there to place the order , has to be picked up from there and then transported away via caravan if you plan to move it. as long as auction houses arent linked buy orders arent really a problem. there will be the linked auction house from a eco metro to another eco metro but you still need to travel to said auction house to pick that stuff up

If that is the system how often will people make long term buy orders and then never pick them up? What if I make a buy order then head to the other continent of Verra? Holy long do those goods sit in storage? Does node storage for auction pick ups have capacity? Did someone simply create a bigger buy order with a higher offer when I left and nothing will be filled?
It should be like going down to the local auction and seeing what you can get rather than making an online bid and picking it up at your convenience. Then you’ll potentially have to caravan the goods to another location in short order.

can work the buy order systems , maybe make it so you have to visit the AH where the order is at a regular interval say once a week ( if not already fulfilled) and if no visit is there null the order, if it completes and you dont pick it up then maybe give a week or two for a pickup then if the person doesnt pick it up they suffer the losses of their glint / gold and the item stack goes up for a bid auction to act as a gold sink / income for the town

if the buy order thing is added it would need alot of mechanic tweaking to make it work for ashes. but with auction houses not being linked it takes away alot of the issues they cause

Perhaps the auction house closes and reopens every 24hr. Buy orders can be renewed at a discount or closed at a small cost.

RocketFarmer

If we actually had free exchange of goods and currency then your player base could offer the services for long term buy orders or other market transactions. I think that would be based on a currency that is exchangeable. Said services could extend across Verra, and the transfer of goods and coin would utilize the caravan system.

Might be a guild with members who attend to the auction houses. The orders would have a time limit, and the guild managing those transactions would carry the risks for filling those orders. I can see the central exchange being in an economic node metropolis. And this market maker guild, like Black Rock in real life, would hold assets and currency to execute transactions on the market. Which currencies apply to which auction house could also play a role.

Individual players would then choose between the risk of traveling to the central exchange node to pick up their item(s) or trust the caravans, or perhaps offer their services to defend the caravans.

While players could set up an exchange externally, for obvious reasons having the tools in game to manage these transactions avoids the likelihood of RMT.

And for those complaining of lack of access to the Freehold system, a REIT could be established to accommodate that access at a market value. That’s a different sort of “delivery”.

Arya_Yeshe

another cool thing about buy orders is when you can see buy orders far away, it could bait or could be a great deal, but the trader will have a look on it and possibly haul a bunch of goods to that place and fill the buy orders with his products

Child Item