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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Which class has higher single-target DPS: Fighter, Ranger or Mage?
Artharion
Member, Alpha Two
For those who have played it, which one has higher single-target DPS?
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Comments
Of course, but until friday and since NDA has been lifted, It's a good opportunity for those who played the game to share their thoughts on this matter.
people in ranger discord say it's nerfed lolmao. I heard a lot about the fighter.
if every class is equally balanced then there is zero reason to have multiple classes.
thats silly to say because it over generalizes what "balance" is.
Here are my predictions/suggestions for how it will/should be.
Clerics are the best at healing and should probably be the 2nd hardest archetype to kill where tanks are the first. Both should do a similar amount of damage to each other with utility that makes them viable in any group size.
Tanks are the tankiest, dealing relatively the same if not slightly more than clerics.
Ranger should be great at kiting with good sustained damage and some survival tools.
Mage should be the glass cannon of the ranged archetypes dealing large costly hits but have the weakest defenses, causing them to rely on allies a bit more in cases where aggro equals death. Something similar to old world of warcraft mages and nothing like the retail version of mages. they can have mobility but not as much as ranger.
Fighter should be the third tankiest archetype with the 2nd highest melee damage behind rogues. they have a decent amount of aoe tools and tankiness which should feel like a sort of barbarian from dnd.
Rogue should deal the most single target damage in the game with various utility and tricks to survive, engage, and disengage from encounters. their tankiness will come from their skilled control of enemies more than actual defensive cooldowns. baseline they would be a little tankier than a ranger since melee is a very scary place to be in.
Bards should be slightly more damage than the cleric and tank, as their buffs and debuffs will be a collective increase on their groups damage. Since they dance between short and long range for various activities they would be on the tankier side, about the same as a ranger.
Summoners should be pushed towards a middle of the pack for all respects baseline and specialization will have them push towards the role they took as a secondary. Though the summoner themselves will probably be similar to a mage in survivability, they make up for this with the pet taking most of their damage.
TLDR you have three categories. Dps, Survivability, Utility. 1 is the highest 8 is lowest.
1. Rogue
2. Mage
3. Fighter
4. Ranger
5. Summoner
6. Bard
7. Tank
8. Cleric
1. Tank
2. Cleric
3. Fighter
4. Bard
5. Summoner
6. Ranger
7. Rogue
8. Mage
1. Bard
2. Rogue
3. Tank
4. Cleric
5. Summoner
6. Ranger
7. Mage
8. Fighter
Now this does not mean the ones ranked lower are extremely bad in that category, they still have tools for it, just not as much as the higher ranked ones. This also doesnt mean that there is a vast disparity between the top rank and the bottom rank. That comes down to finetuned balancing and class fantasy. But yeah this is my opinion on it either way.
Could you explain what is different between shortbow and longbow if you've tried both? Some skills benefit from longer range, so I'd imagine longbow has higher DPS. On the other hand, I imagine the shortbow has a higher rate of fire for the auto-attacks so maybe it evens out?
ty in advance
Have you played the alpha-2?
But this is because the builds we've had are not remotely combat-balance-related in that way, and there are some complicating factors with their damage formulae (not things that are broken, things that are just ... interesting choices relative to gearing).
If you're asking so that you get some idea of what Archetype to focus on in your own testing when it becomes available to you, it is likely that Fighter will still be 'the highest', but overall, please understand that it's very swingy because the TTK is... closer to BDO than most games.
Maybe that will be different by Friday, but for now I say, if you want DPS, especially if you aren't going solo, choose Fighter.
and if you're going solo, which one do you recommend?
If you're an Action Combat fan, I recommend Ranger because of how Mage skills work.
If you're not an Action Combat fan, I also recommend Ranger because of how Ranger skills work.
That probably doesn't make sense, but you'll get it when you play.
ranger does more single target dps than mage?
In terms of single target dps, you would say is like this? fighter > ranger > mage?
Overall yes, but again, it's complex, because it changes as you level in specific ways, and it's in that state where they're constantly just shifting stuff. Balance is absolutely not their concern right now.
Still, yeah, for me, Fighter > Ranger > Mage.
Because I prefer hearing people's opinion, it helps me to know the state of the clases.
You've jumped into the thread twice without addressing its point, and it seems like the topic bothers you. If you don’t like it, simply don’t participate. You can't control what others do, especially in a forum. I respect what you do, so please let me do what I want as long as I follow the rules.
Anything that isn't related to in-game classes, please send it via private message. Let's not derail the thread. Thanks
Was asking you a question not telling you to shut up. Was genuinely interested.
Do you realize that you put summoner in 5th position place in all 3 sections. Least dps, bad survivability and bad utility. In the same time you put Rogue as best dps and best utility (from dps classes). Where is the balance?
Rogue should have either dmg or utility. Maybe have option to choose from the 2, but when you choose 1, you dont get the other.
Also Cleric should not have survivability. He should be able to keep other targets alive, but not himself.
You put Mage to have the least survivability and 7th place on utility, And is not even Best dmg?
Ranger is in bad place also... But at the same time fighter gets most survivability from dps classes, and 3rd place on dps.
I see Favoritism from a Rogue main player here, which is not balanced at all.
Im a warlock main. through and through. in my mind rogues are slippery little monsters that do a ton of damage and have a bunch of tricks that if used well can control a fight. So I fully understand why and where I put them.
Summoner is 5th literally because its described as a jack of all trades archetype. it makes sense for them to be slightly lower in all aspects baseline. This is without a secondary archetype and specialization mind you. Also, its not like I said there needs to be some sort of massive gap between the archetypes damage. it could be only a percent or two. Its hard to tell when most of the summoners damage/survivability/utility will come from a minion that will have an easier time dealing damage than say a melee archetype.
To say that cleric shouldnt have survivability makes no sense. if they are the primary healer their survival will naturally be higher than most other classes. Especially if they are being designed with the intent that they are dnd/pathfinder clerics.
With mage they are already a ranged class with slows and good aoes. the fact that they are 2nd on ranged and 7th on utility means that in most cases they are your best choice for raw damage output in the game. Being a ranged dps is extremely powerful and the tradeoff for this is lower values in both of the other departments.
The reason why fighter is in its position is because its very clear in most games that melee archetypes have a harder time the more difficult and mobile a boss fight is. As well as in pvp. to compensate for a lack of uptime they deal more damage when they do get on a target. they are tanky because its needed for being in such a lethal fighting range.
As for ranger being in a bad spot, again its not like these rankings make them terrible at their job they are just slightly lower on the scale. you are taking the ranking to mean they suck at that particular thing. All its there to say is an archetype has slightly more focus or less focus on that area. The real balance is up to the nuances in the design.
Now if this still sounds bad to you, then we just dont share the same opinions on how archetypes should work. and thats ok.
If we exclude the tank + bard and cleric from your example, and move 8th place to 5th, 7th to 4th and ect.
You should be getting 9 points combined from all 3 sections for each dps class to be balanced, with the less points a class has - the stronger he is.
So from your grouping you will get
Best class:
Rogue - 7 pt
Fighter - 8 pt
Summoner - 9 pt
Ranger - 10 pt
Mage - 11 pt
and you should be aiming for 9 on each
I am not talking about "sucking at thing", But when you put 1 class to be best at dps, he cant be best at something else also.
Same with the other way around, When you put mage last place on 2 sections, This instantly means they MUST be first place in the third
Also I have no idea why you talking about Uptime for melee classes vs ranged classes.
You are WOW player. You obviously have never player Ranged class there (even tho you claim you play warlock). If you did play ranged class you would know that in PVP ranged classes play the game on HARD MODE, while melees are brain dead classes. Its much harder to do your dmg as Ranged dps than as melee dps.
And for PVE its easy to keep uptime for all classes. PVE is for bad skill wise people anyway,
The real categorization should be:
DPS: 1. Mage, 2. Rogue, 3. Fighter, 4. Ranger, 5. Summoner
Survivability: 1.Fighter, 2. Ranger, 3. Summoner, 4. Mage, 5. Rogue
Utility: 1. Summoner, 2. Rogue, 3. Ranger, 4. Mage, 5. Fighter
The main difference is the attack speed, short bow benefits from the weapon combo taking 3 seconds of your skills CD faster than the longbow, the longbow has a higher range and tbh has some better aoe dps, but for single target the short bow is probably higher dps and easier to solo with